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Stopping blink stalkers is not that hard with standard play, you just need to make a lot of marauders with conc and keep an eye on where his stalkers are. If you don't know, keep your army close to your ramp so you can get both to your main and nat fast if needed.
Also it never hurts to get one or two bunkers along the edge of your main base, as they can be pretty helpful and you can always salvage them afterwards.. same with turrets, you should have an ebay by the time and on some maps one turret will just prevent his obs from getting in, thus making your main un-blinkable.
It's still an annoying strat to play against, as the stalkers will just make you run back and fucking forth and the blink micro is a pain in the ass.. but if you keep your marauders following them all the time, you should be fine.
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Question about mech tvp. How do you counter warp prism drops effectively? Do u use turrets or unleave couple of tanks in the base. Im in diamond league
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On January 06 2012 13:15 onetrolltorulethemal wrote:
I don't know if this is a proper question but......
WHAT I DO VS ZERG! I have a minimun knowledge of the matchup although I am high diamond on the NA ladder. I know nothing of Zergs timing. I only know that 2base 1-1 2 factory 4 reactor barracks stim push ((with a medivac or 2)) will usually win me the game. However, as i'm progressing to the higher levels of play Zerg are doing things like fast thirds and Macro games *shudders*
Please give unto me Zerg timings and good strategies!!!
I'm a Silver player, but I almost never lose against Zergs. 100% of the time I do a Siege expo in my TvZ's. Push with 3 tanks. If a lot of muta's, camp at base close to your Turrets. Inbase expo, lots of marines, keep some inbase, take some to attack, he has to divide his attention that way!
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On January 06 2012 21:53 rtgICEMAN wrote:
Question about mech tvp. How do you counter warp prism drops effectively? Do u use turrets or unleave couple of tanks in the base. Im in diamond league
Depends on maps and what units you want to build, ideally you use banshees to kill the units and viking(s) to kill the prism.
It's much more problematic dealing with prisms using factory units. Best defence is to know it is coming (sensor tower) and have turrets & sufficient tank / hellion there to deal with what units he commits. In late game it is not unreasonable to build a planetary to protect your production
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On January 07 2012 02:12 Huggerz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 21:53 rtgICEMAN wrote:
Question about mech tvp. How do you counter warp prism drops effectively? Do u use turrets or unleave couple of tanks in the base. Im in diamond league Depends on maps and what units you want to build, ideally you use banshees to kill the units and viking(s) to kill the prism. It's much more problematic dealing with prisms using factory units. Best defence is to know it is coming (sensor tower) and have turrets & sufficient tank / hellion there to deal with what units he commits. In late game it is not unreasonable to build a planetary to protect your production
If your mech includes marines and marauders it should be fairly easy. Usually I try to include Vikings in my mech play to fight colossi, and having one or two handy should be solid against prisms.
Usually protoss will be throwing away zealots using prisms-- combat this with your hellions. If he's making stalkers, you'll need to use your banshees. If he's using immortals, hellions won't be very effective, but can burn off shields for other units to punch through.
EDIT: Um also when I say "my mech play" I mean "my biomech play" because I don't find TvP viable without barracks units. Biomech is just a gimmicky timing attack I use.
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On January 07 2012 02:19 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 02:12 Huggerz wrote:On January 06 2012 21:53 rtgICEMAN wrote:
Question about mech tvp. How do you counter warp prism drops effectively? Do u use turrets or unleave couple of tanks in the base. Im in diamond league Depends on maps and what units you want to build, ideally you use banshees to kill the units and viking(s) to kill the prism. It's much more problematic dealing with prisms using factory units. Best defence is to know it is coming (sensor tower) and have turrets & sufficient tank / hellion there to deal with what units he commits. In late game it is not unreasonable to build a planetary to protect your production If your mech includes marines and marauders it should be fairly easy. Usually I try to include Vikings in my mech play to fight colossi, and having one or two handy should be solid against prisms. Usually protoss will be throwing away zealots using prisms-- combat this with your hellions. If he's making stalkers, you'll need to use your banshees. If he's using immortals, hellions won't be very effective, but can burn off shields for other units to punch through.
I dunno, marine marauder seems redundant beyond early-mid game with mech, don't see a reason to build marauders at all - would only build marines to help defend Protoss aggression. Probably be building ghosts by the time third base is about done and want to keep number of racks to 1 if possible. Banshees work great with mech in general and it's soo much easier to deny harass with flying shizz than tanks. Ordinarily I prefer to throw hellions at his mineral lines and defend harass with starport units while running SCVs or floating buildings away - you'll lose less units defending and can kill a lot more of his probes
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
If you're restricting yourself to Ghosts and Factory/Starport units, then your main response to warp prisms is going to be hellions to fight zealots and starport units to fight anything else + the warp prism.
Another thought would be, as some suggested, sensor towers. If you find yourself with a lot of minerals and not a lot of gas, you could make some scout rax and float them around watching for drops on patrol routes, but this is less effective.
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Ok sooo. I've been having a lot of trouble against when Zergs entering the mid-game. The most common thing that I seem to mess up is when I will attack/pressure the Z's 3rd base with a decent force of marine/tank while taking my 3rd in the process. I open up with standard reactor swap hellions into a 2nd base and then transition into marine/tank.
Whether or not the attack works, afterward I'll be totally lost on what to do next. Here are some more specific questions:
1) If I kill the 3rd, do I run home and defend my newly made 3rd base? Or should I push forward with my army and try to contain/deny him re-taking the 3rd?
2) If the attack fails and the 3rd lives where does a Terran stand if he was able to secure a 3rd of his own in the process?
3) If that is a poor time to take a 3rd, what are some better/more common times to take it?
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On January 07 2012 02:46 Fake)Plants wrote:
Ok sooo. I've been having a lot of trouble against when Zergs entering the mid-game. The most common thing that I seem to mess up is when I will attack/pressure the Z's 3rd base witha decent force of marine/tank while taking my 3rd in the process.
Whether or not the attack works, afterward I'll be totally lost on what to do next. Here are some more specific questions:
1) If I kill the 3rd, do I run home and defend my newly made 3rd base? Or should I push forward with my army and try to contain/deny him re-taking the 3rd?
After you kill the third, you bail as soon as possible and get home, unless he JUST threw away his army. He's using all his larvae cycle to make units and all his spare gas to make mutas and banes rather than tech or drones, so every larvae cycle it gets more and more dangerous for your units. Don't retreat too quickly and get caught with your pants down, but get out of there and push back out with more stuff once your third is stable.
2) If the attack fails and the 3rd lives where does a Terran stand if he was able to secure a 3rd of his own in the process?
Depends on how badly it fails. If you're just forced to go home with your push, you're fine-- take your third and start dropping to try to regain map control, and clear out creep tumors, ovies, scouting lings, etc.
If you trade armies but his third is still up, build a couple bunkers in case he's making units and not drones, and drop for map control/scouting. Try to clear out tumors, ovies, and scouting lings.
If you lost your army and didn't take out his army, it's probably because he made few drones and lots of army. It's also possible he just engaged really well. In that case you are, to use the technical term, bonerized. Put up bunkers. On some maps (like Shakuras Plateau, Antiga Shipyard) you can STILL take your third, even like this-- if so, you still have a chance. In this case you want your third base to be a P Fort rather than an Orbital.
3) If that is a poor time to take a 3rd, what are some better times to take it?
I take my 3rd then. I dunno if it's a great time but it makes sense. You want to be on par / ahead of zerg economically.
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Is there a guide somewhere on the tvp gasless expand 4rax before tech?
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On January 07 2012 03:42 dementrio wrote:
Is there a guide somewhere on the tvp gasless expand 4rax before tech?
Depot, Rax, (make extra SCV as recent post shows that econ benefit is better long term than 15 OC), CC
Rally marine to ramp
Depot, marine
Drop 4 rax, then 2 gas, 1 tech lab, get stim
Scout at 5:30 with scv. if no natural and it dies before getting in main, scan main. Prepare based on what you see. If expand, drop factory, constnat marauder, marine productio, get ebay and _+1
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What is a critical timing attack against zerg if i go for Thor+BF Hellion?
What is the "magical" thor number if something like this exists?
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On January 07 2012 05:40 saaaa wrote:
What is a critical timing attack against zerg if i go for Thor+BF Hellion?
What is the "magical" thor number if something like this exists?
A maxed +2 thor/hellion army can be completed at 15 min, i suggest that timing or after one upgrade more if you want some banshees too.. The smaller army number the better roaches will kill your army, and without tanks roaches are your biggest enemy.
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On January 07 2012 06:02 Mowr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 05:40 saaaa wrote:
What is a critical timing attack against zerg if i go for Thor+BF Hellion?
What is the "magical" thor number if something like this exists?
A maxed +2 thor/hellion army can be completed at 15 min, i suggest that timing or after one upgrade more if you want some banshees too.. The smaller army number the better roaches will kill your army, and without tanks roaches are your biggest enemy.
i do a 2 fac reactor hellion into thor+bf hellion and i hit the 2+ attack @ 15:00 min.
should i just push with +2 attack and like 5-6 thors?
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From my experience from watching Pro Streams i saw that hellion thor attacks just work with a really good timing and get mostly destroyed by just mass roach. If you wanna play mech TvZ you really need Tanks and Banshees! Use the Hellions and Banshees to herrass your opponent and slowly take bases until you have a maxed out Mech army with Hellions, Tanks, Banshees, Vikings and a few Thors. The real strengh comes from your tanks and banshess. The other units are just to support.
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On January 07 2012 06:17 saaaa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 06:02 Mowr wrote:On January 07 2012 05:40 saaaa wrote:
What is a critical timing attack against zerg if i go for Thor+BF Hellion?
What is the "magical" thor number if something like this exists?
A maxed +2 thor/hellion army can be completed at 15 min, i suggest that timing or after one upgrade more if you want some banshees too.. The smaller army number the better roaches will kill your army, and without tanks roaches are your biggest enemy. i do a 2 fac reactor hellion into thor+bf hellion and i hit the 2+ attack @ 15:00 min. should i just push with +2 attack and like 5-6 thors?
Like Siano said, I strongly suggest adding either banshees or tanks (or both) but just pure thors will work at not a very high level of play. If you like it go with it, and eventually develop your own mech build.
The advantage of going just two units is that you invest almost only in units and +armor/attack, not additional siege upgrades and starports. That means you need a lot of thors. Maxed at 15 min means ~10 thors + a bunch of hellions. I am not familiar with a two factory opening, but both reactor hellion expand or even 2 racks opening will work as long as you get your expansion up.
I suggest you look at Synystyrs TvZ guide somewhere on TL. It is an all thor/hellion build that apparently works in master league.
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I enjoy opening 1-1-1 in all my match ups for a fast cloak banshee at around 7 minutes to secure an expansion. My terran is platinum at the moment, so i was wondering if this is viable at higher levels, particularly vs Zerg? All the while I'm producing scvs and marines to fill up a bunker on my wall.
Also, are there any tips on marine splitting that people would like to share? I know theres the patrol trick for banelings, but I usually prefer to do it manually because it helps with infestors too, but Im terrible at it in general.
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
On January 07 2012 06:43 Mowr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 06:17 saaaa wrote:On January 07 2012 06:02 Mowr wrote:On January 07 2012 05:40 saaaa wrote:
What is a critical timing attack against zerg if i go for Thor+BF Hellion?
What is the "magical" thor number if something like this exists?
A maxed +2 thor/hellion army can be completed at 15 min, i suggest that timing or after one upgrade more if you want some banshees too.. The smaller army number the better roaches will kill your army, and without tanks roaches are your biggest enemy. i do a 2 fac reactor hellion into thor+bf hellion and i hit the 2+ attack @ 15:00 min. should i just push with +2 attack and like 5-6 thors? Like Siano said, I strongly suggest adding either banshees or tanks (or both) but just pure thors will work at not a very high level of play. If you like it go with it, and eventually develop your own mech build. The advantage of going just two units is that you invest almost only in units and +armor/attack, not additional siege upgrades and starports. That means you need a lot of thors. Maxed at 15 min means ~10 thors + a bunch of hellions. I am not familiar with a two factory opening, but both reactor hellion expand or even 2 racks opening will work as long as you get your expansion up. I suggest you look at Synystyrs TvZ guide somewhere on TL. It is an all thor/hellion build that apparently works in master league.
[G] Synystyr's TvZ 0/3 Hellion/Thor Build
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On January 07 2012 14:18 Jojo131 wrote:
I enjoy opening 1-1-1 in all my match ups for a fast cloak banshee at around 7 minutes to secure an expansion. My terran is platinum at the moment, so i was wondering if this is viable at higher levels, particularly vs Zerg? All the while I'm producing scvs and marines to fill up a bunker on my wall.
Also, are there any tips on marine splitting that people would like to share? I know theres the patrol trick for banelings, but I usually prefer to do it manually because it helps with infestors too, but Im terrible at it in general.
It can certainly work, but it will be way, waaaay inferior compared to other builds you could be opening with.
As for splitting, don't worry about it, it's not very important at all except for during small or very specific engagements. Usually a TvZ engagement will go as following for you:
*You scan to see where his army is and decide how far you can go without sieging your tanks
*As soon as he attacks you, hopefully your tanks are sieged, if not siege them
*Select all your marines, stim them, and just run them the hell away from everything, behind your tanks and thors
*Select all your tanks and hold shift while right clicking on his banelings (this will make the siege tanks only shoot banelings, since they don't overkill they will each shoot different banelings and the splash is enough to kill huge clumps of them)
*Evaluate if it's worth losing DPS time by splitting your marines instead of just having them stand still and attack
Usually your tanks will annihilate all the banelings before they reach your marines, and your marines will take care of the rest. If you for some reason have a very low Siege Tank number you might have to split after the focus firing though.
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EPT
