EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 98
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[KGS]Slacker
Denmark82 Posts
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Mr Pink
United Kingdom18 Posts
I'm looking for some help with PvZ. For the longest time this has been my weakest matchup, I think because I have real trouble balancing the need to apply pressure to stop the Zerg droning whilst not overcommitting my army and getting swamped by a ton of zerg units. Here are a couple of replays from my ladder session last night which illustrate some of the problems I'm having MrPink vs colocool on Metalopolis MrPink vs Alin on Metalopolis In these games I 1 gate expand, based on a recent coaching VOD from CecilSunkure. I get a fast robo after 3 gates, as well as hallucination in order to get a fast scout. While I don't scout enough, in both games I get enough information to correctly identify the Zerg tech route and respond accordingly. If memory serves correctly, the real issue in both games is that the zerg gets a nice drone lead, while I feel powerless to pressure him on cross positions with the distance being so far. I then have real problems getting my 3rd up. I guess my question is, am I right that my main issue is not pressuring? If so, how should I be doing so? Any advice welcome! | ||
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tuestresfat
2555 Posts
This might be a dumb question as I'm posting this out of frustration. What unit composition should you aim for when facing maxed Brood Lord, Infestor, Roach PvZ? Watching pros I go Blink Stalker, Immortal, High Templar (Archon), and get warp prism to harass expos and try not to engage the zerg's "deathball". Basically abuse their immobility. I use that time to try and get up mass voids but that's hasn't worked out all that well (infestors do pretty well against them and I just can't micro (split voids effectively) so many things in the 200/200 stages. It feels like I really need to stall for a really long time and just be extremely cost inefficient which is the opposite of how pvz works in every stage of the game before they get their deathball up. I guess a huge difference would be getting a mothership but I thought I'd post here on TL before messing around with that. Thoughts? Thanks, Mid-Masters Random player. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On November 02 2011 09:35 Dracover wrote: I've been struggling vs Muta play recently. I don't outright die to them. It's more a case of after i get blink stalkers and some obs around the map I find it near impossible to take a 4th base. I've tried planting HTs at my bases but I find by the time i have HTs a decent number of blink stalkers it's like 14-15 mins into the game and the zergs will normally be on 5 bases because I can't move out. Also on most maps where you will see this (lets use shattered temple as an example) there's always some rocks to destroy and u cant do it safely with just ur zealots. The mutas come into pick them off or you bring stalkers and they swing around to ur 3rd etc. Maybe it's just "need more apm/multitasking" but are there any strategic methods to stop this? I find the amount of cannons u need per base to def against 10+ mutas is ridculous without moving ur stalkers around. You are pretty much doing it right, I think it's only a problem if how you do it. For example the cannons aren't to kill the mutas but only delay until your stalkers arrive so you can save your probes. Taking a third and getting blink and HTs is fine. I'd suggest you get some archons too as well as chronoboosting upgrades. Then you might want to push while taking a fourth to get it up without any mutas interfering. You could build cannons there before the nexus as well to make it easier. Don't forget to bring a stalker to clear any pesky zerglings and overlords trying to block you. On November 02 2011 19:43 tuestresfat wrote: I posted this in simple questions simple answers but on second thought I think it's more suited for this thread This might be a dumb question as I'm posting this out of frustration. What unit composition should you aim for when facing maxed Brood Lord, Infestor, Roach PvZ? Watching pros I go Blink Stalker, Immortal, High Templar (Archon), and get warp prism to harass expos and try not to engage the zerg's "deathball". Basically abuse their immobility. I use that time to try and get up mass voids but that's hasn't worked out all that well (infestors do pretty well against them and I just can't micro (split voids effectively) so many things in the 200/200 stages. It feels like I really need to stall for a really long time and just be extremely cost inefficient which is the opposite of how pvz works in every stage of the game before they get their deathball up. I guess a huge difference would be getting a mothership but I thought I'd post here on TL before messing around with that. Thoughts? Thanks, Mid-Masters Random player. It seems like you got the strategy down, maybe it's an execution problem? As long as you can keep on harassing without losing your army it won't matter that the zerg's deathball is more cost effective than your. Also you only need aobut 4 voidrays to kill a ton of broodlords. Also try to keep your main army alive while the voidrays kill off the broodlords. This will ensure that you can take him out once they are down as you should be able to crush any roach infestor composition. Motherships are also great, especially if you got a few archons. | ||
monk
United States8477 Posts
On November 02 2011 12:32 Exclamark wrote: Could somebody recommend me some builds. Ones that are more friendly towards a new player that is in gold? right now I know an MC 4gate build for pvp for pvt I'm not sure but I kinda wing it with 3 gates then expand for pvz same as above. just give me an idea of something I should look up or a safe macro build you follow. thanks! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=266786 | ||
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uLysSeS1
Germany210 Posts
sage used that in some GSL match ( i don't exactly remember how he did it) but it was incredibly effective, yet i haven't seen it since. thus i tried to do work out a build and it turned out well. replay of my buildorder for this vs cpu: http://fileza.com/i/5tfb9x/PvZDTcheese.SC2Replay | ||
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DropTester
Australia608 Posts
On November 03 2011 08:24 uLysSeS1 wrote: do you think a (proxy) robo -> warp prism 6-7 DT warpin is viable in PvZ? sage used that in some GSL match ( i don't exactly remember how he did it) but it was incredibly effective, yet i haven't seen it since. thus i tried to do work out a build and it turned out well. replay of my buildorder for this vs cpu: http://fileza.com/i/5tfb9x/PvZDTcheese.SC2Replay artosis did a writeup for sage's dt drop build at scdojo.com, you dont need to proxy the robo it doesn't change much | ||
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SchizoNL
Netherlands37 Posts
On November 02 2011 19:32 Mr Pink wrote: Hey guys I'm looking for some help with PvZ. For the longest time this has been my weakest matchup, I think because I have real trouble balancing the need to apply pressure to stop the Zerg droning whilst not overcommitting my army and getting swamped by a ton of zerg units. Here are a couple of replays from my ladder session last night which illustrate some of the problems I'm having MrPink vs colocool on Metalopolis MrPink vs Alin on Metalopolis In these games I 1 gate expand, based on a recent coaching VOD from CecilSunkure. I get a fast robo after 3 gates, as well as hallucination in order to get a fast scout. While I don't scout enough, in both games I get enough information to correctly identify the Zerg tech route and respond accordingly. If memory serves correctly, the real issue in both games is that the zerg gets a nice drone lead, while I feel powerless to pressure him on cross positions with the distance being so far. I then have real problems getting my 3rd up. I guess my question is, am I right that my main issue is not pressuring? If so, how should I be doing so? Any advice welcome! can someone answer this question, I've got the same problem  | ||
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Tommylew
Wales2717 Posts
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
On November 03 2011 18:53 Tommylew wrote: Hi what is the best counter to mass marine and banashee style? This could come as eithier an earlier rush or a 200/200 push, seems that when i went phoenix they died so quickly to target from marines and my groudn army got destoryed so quickly vs Banashee. Did you forget about HT? | ||
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Tommylew
Wales2717 Posts
hmmm yes, I did, problem was that in the early push I couldnt of got HT out or I woudlnthave storm ready, but yeh your proabbly right i had time for the 200/200 push, Cheers. Forget about feedback on the banashees. At least if I meet it again I have an idea what to get!! | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
On November 03 2011 19:06 Tommylew wrote: hmmm yes, I did, problem was that in the early push I couldnt of got HT out or I woudlnthave storm ready, but yeh your proabbly right i had time for the 200/200 push, Cheers. Forget about feedback on the banashees. At least if I meet it again I have an idea what to get!! Mass banshee-marine is VERY difficult to deal with as an early all-in though... Especially when they mix in a raven. I still have trouble with it. Recently I barely won a game even after I made like 5 defensive cannons... I did lose my natural though. But at a certain point you can just counter with pure stalker if you defend. But I still have trouble with it. T.T | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
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pm_squad
Mexico180 Posts
How many Stalkers/Zealots should I have to deal with: 1 Medivac + 8 Marines 1 Medivac + 3 Marauders/2 Marines 2 Medivacs + 16 Marines etc. etc. Last night the Terrans army was split into three groups, one pushing my natural, and the other two dropping my main and third and I lost ALL three fights in all three fronts quite badly. PvT is the matchup holding me back from exceling at SC2  . Any helpful advice would be very welcome, as well as any online resources (articles or day9 dailies or any VOD's) that help me better my PvT would be greatly appreciated. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On November 04 2011 02:04 pm_squad wrote: I'm really having trouble dealing with drops + frontal push in PvT. My number one issue is having my army all binder to one hotkey and I know I have to work on that, but when I do split up my army, I never know what is the best unit ratio to deal with the drops. How many Stalkers/Zealots should I have to deal with: 1 Medivac + 8 Marines 1 Medivac + 3 Marauders/2 Marines 2 Medivacs + 16 Marines etc. etc. Last night the Terrans army was split into three groups, one pushing my natural, and the other two dropping my main and third and I lost ALL three fights in all three fronts quite badly. PvT is the matchup holding me back from exceling at SC2 . Any helpful advice would be very welcome, as well as any online resources (articles or day9 dailies or any VOD's) that help me better my PvT would be greatly appreciated.There is no way to know what are in those drops so don't think about that. You should have some stalkers picking off the medivac before it unloads any or much of it's cargo, or at least scare it off. One thing you can do is keeping an observer outside the edge of your main where drops are likely to come from so you can position your stalkers correctly. 4 stalkers are usually enough to snipe a medivac, you might need more if there are several or maybe some zealots. To defend your front just forcefield him and kill his army with zealots, colossi or whatever unist you are teching for. Then on thre bases you do the same thing, you just gotta multitask more. At this point you can also afford 3-4 cannons easily, you can place them in the bases most vulnerable to drops to delay until some units can get there and defend the probes/tech. | ||
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fatalities
United States91 Posts
I don't have time right now to watch my replays, but here's a random PvP that I lost. http://drop.sc/52742 (Requiem) It would also be nice if someone gave me current build orders for PvP. I feel like part of the reason is that in PvZ and PvT I expand more/earlier than my opponents (or at least keep up with Zerg), but I can't really expand for a while in PvP. edit: I played a few PvP's today, which went better. I played a string of PvPs and lost early when I started playing again, so maybe that was just rust? Still would like some nice BO's for PvP. | ||
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ToFjames
United States33 Posts
http://drop.sc/52908 We had played before and my first qoustion is 14 forge cannon rush still soposed to be what you do v hatch first? In this game he does a 6 pool i hold it decently(i think) and i transition into 3 gate robo after i saw the roach waren i move out of my base to see he is roach/ling allining me i lose most of the units but hold (not efficently) i move out and expo and macro up which i think i do decently well(ie 12 mins in the game he has 2 k mins and i have 200-400 ish. i get a col and move out to try and kill his third i see he took with hallucination i get there kill all the drones and his base and as i start to retreat he comes in with zerglings/roaches/baneling in overlords i ff away the main army and try to ff my units into a ball before the baneling land it doesn't work and i lose my whole army even though i was up by 20 army supply. This is when i think i make a mistake and try to take the gold but by that point i think it was over anyway i appreciate the help! PS sorry for the bm im pissed | ||
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Mr Pink
United Kingdom18 Posts
On November 03 2011 18:27 SchizoNL wrote: can someone answer this question, I've got the same problem SchizoNL, I've been working on this since I posted the question, and I'm currently experimenting with the style used by the GM player ecco, who posted his replay pack here. His style is interesting; he normally does a 1 gate expand, into 3 gates and a forge with a fast twilight council (for blink) and usually a robo. He then turtles hard, getting the tech appropriate to fend of the Zerg, emphasising attack upgrades and taking his 3rd at around 11 minutes. He doesn't seem to put any real pressure on the zerg at all until the 3rd is at least secure. Even though the Zerg gets way ahead in the mid-game, once the fearsome late-game Protoss army is assembled you are cost efficient enough to deal with it. At least, that's my take on it from watching his replays, I could be wrong I've been trying this style on ladder to decent success so far. | ||
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danakaz
Denmark84 Posts
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GomJabbar
United States161 Posts
Essentially, you open with a classic 3-stalker rush. Gate-core-gate before any units, chronoboost 3 stalkers from the gateways. Start a 2nd assimilator after 1st stalker starts. Get map control with the stalkers while throwing down a robo and a 3rd gateway, then make a sentry. No need to cut probes much. As soon as the robo is out (OR after the 3 stalkers if you scout the opponent teching and you want to be greedier) make a nexus. You can defend the expo using immortals, forcefields, and good micro in general. If he goes 1-base colossus, put some immortals in a warp prism, engage in an open area and drop immortals next to his colossus. I'd say 90% of the time, my nexus is faster than the opponents', and when they spot your nexus they'll all-in you. When you survive they'll surrender. Otherwise I just go colossus with (typically) an economic lead. | ||
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