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The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 97

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action.
-Celestial-
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom3867 Posts
November 01 2011 11:32 GMT
#1921
I agree with Latedi on that, except to add that you might want to consider putting a sentry with your stalker groups (guardian shield can help a LOT). Muta is quite an annoyance but if you can see its coming its a fairly straightforward counter of moving to templar tech until he stops going muta and it transitions well later on also (add on robo tech and you got yourself everything needed for basic gateway/colossus/HT setup; plus blink, charge and T2 upgardes aren't exactly trivial in and of themselves).

The problem mainly comes if you don't know its coming, scouting is crucial. But I've saved myself several times now by chronoing out an observer, spotting a spire or a couple of mutas and then just flat out letting my robo go dead and getting down a twilight and pumping out sentry/stalker.
"Protoss simultaneously feels unbeatably strong and unwinnably weak." - kcdc
JonnyLaw
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3482 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-01 11:35:36
November 01 2011 11:34 GMT
#1922
Why would 9 scout? The only thing you can see with a 9 scout is that there are no buildings in their base. At that point it could be cannons or proxy gates. I'd rather find their proxy or cannons building.

Also, more minerals are nice to have in tight builds.
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
November 01 2011 11:37 GMT
#1923
On November 01 2011 20:34 JonnyLaw wrote:
Why would 9 scout? The only thing you can see with a 9 scout is that there are no buildings in their base. At that point it could be cannons or proxy gates. I'd rather find their proxy or cannons building.

Also, more minerals are nice to have in tight builds.


If you 12 scout and you don't find their proxy you die. Up to you.

It's like 15 nexusing and wondering what to do against a 6 pool. It's greedy and you'll be fine against non-cheese.
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
Latedi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden1027 Posts
November 01 2011 11:38 GMT
#1924
On November 01 2011 20:34 JonnyLaw wrote:
Why would 9 scout? The only thing you can see with a 9 scout is that there are no buildings in their base. At that point it could be cannons or proxy gates. I'd rather find their proxy or cannons building.

Also, more minerals are nice to have in tight builds.


I think it's fine on maps like xel naga caverns but you really want to 9 scout on larger maps to be there in time before the stalker is out.
I am Latedi.
Mizzet
Profile Joined June 2010
Singapore47 Posts
November 01 2011 11:44 GMT
#1925
I'm having trouble against MMM in PvT, where my chargelots just seem to get kited and any collossi are left trying to catch up. The obvious answer I think of is to FF behind the T army so they can't retreat, but in practice I've not been able to get my sentries close enough to do this before the kiting begins.

Is there nothing for it but trying to force an engagement in a favourable location for me?
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
November 01 2011 11:45 GMT
#1926
On November 01 2011 20:44 Mizzet wrote:
I'm having trouble against MMM in PvT, where my chargelots just seem to get kited and any collossi are left trying to catch up. The obvious answer I think of is to FF behind the T army so they can't retreat, but in practice I've not been able to get my sentries close enough to do this before the kiting begins.

Is there nothing for it but trying to force an engagement in a favourable location for me?


Are you engaging without range?
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
JonnyLaw
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3482 Posts
November 01 2011 11:48 GMT
#1927
On November 01 2011 20:44 Mizzet wrote:
I'm having trouble against MMM in PvT, where my chargelots just seem to get kited and any collossi are left trying to catch up. The obvious answer I think of is to FF behind the T army so they can't retreat, but in practice I've not been able to get my sentries close enough to do this before the kiting begins.

Is there nothing for it but trying to force an engagement in a favourable location for me?



Pull the zealots back towards your army. Don't let them get kited. Zealots dealing damage is nice, but you need to make them soak damage for the colossus as well. As you said, engaging in a favorable position is nice, but if the bio's shooting your zealots and your colossus are hitting you'll be doing okay.

Don't let them charge off on their own and get kited.
Latedi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden1027 Posts
November 01 2011 11:54 GMT
#1928
On November 01 2011 20:48 JonnyLaw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 20:44 Mizzet wrote:
I'm having trouble against MMM in PvT, where my chargelots just seem to get kited and any collossi are left trying to catch up. The obvious answer I think of is to FF behind the T army so they can't retreat, but in practice I've not been able to get my sentries close enough to do this before the kiting begins.

Is there nothing for it but trying to force an engagement in a favourable location for me?



Pull the zealots back towards your army. Don't let them get kited. Zealots dealing damage is nice, but you need to make them soak damage for the colossus as well. As you said, engaging in a favorable position is nice, but if the bio's shooting your zealots and your colossus are hitting you'll be doing okay.

Don't let them charge off on their own and get kited.


I believe it is possible to deactivate charge from autocasting by right clicking it. This way the zealots won't be as far ahead of the rest of your army and you can activate charge when needed.
I am Latedi.
Amornthep
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Singapore2605 Posts
November 01 2011 12:01 GMT
#1929
On November 01 2011 20:44 Mizzet wrote:
I'm having trouble against MMM in PvT, where my chargelots just seem to get kited and any collossi are left trying to catch up. The obvious answer I think of is to FF behind the T army so they can't retreat, but in practice I've not been able to get my sentries close enough to do this before the kiting begins.

Is there nothing for it but trying to force an engagement in a favourable location for me?


Don't chase, retreat your zealots while letting your range units (stalkers, colossus) take hits from the side, back and engage fully with your zealots when you're in a good position.
Mizzet
Profile Joined June 2010
Singapore47 Posts
November 01 2011 13:53 GMT
#1930
Thanks for the replies all, I'll keep that in mind. Retreating my zealots until I'm confident of committing fully to an engagement seems to be key.
Dudesen
Profile Joined October 2010
3 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-01 18:29:12
November 01 2011 18:28 GMT
#1931
When defending an 111 push off an 1gate expand, how many workers should you ideally make, and should you chrono them?
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8477 Posts
November 01 2011 18:30 GMT
#1932
On November 02 2011 03:28 Dudesen wrote:
When defending an 111 push off an 1gate expand, how many workers should you ideally make, and should you chrono them?


Yes, you should chorno workers and 33-35 is around ideal. Chrono workers until that point and competely cut after.
Moderator
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
November 01 2011 19:05 GMT
#1933
what to do against a 6pool from zerg on tal darim altar?
we had close air spawns and I scouted him last, so I had no idea what was coming... (put down gateway at 13)
Did I just got an auto loose? What can you do against 6pool in general?
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8477 Posts
November 01 2011 19:05 GMT
#1934
On November 02 2011 04:05 ShiaoPi wrote:
what to do against a 6pool from zerg on tal darim altar?
we had close air spawns and I scouted him last, so I had no idea what was coming... (put down gateway at 13)
Did I just got an auto loose? What can you do against 6pool in general?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=269312
Moderator
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
November 01 2011 19:08 GMT
#1935
thx, should have went there first
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
Latedi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden1027 Posts
November 01 2011 19:37 GMT
#1936
Actually, on some maps you can get away with it against a 6pool, shakuras being the one map I know about in ladder. It may work on GSL maps etc too but I don't play them much.

Anyway my point being on shakuras you can go forge gateway cannon gateway with a complete walloff and then expand for a sick economic advantage.
I am Latedi.
BaCoNSawce
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States34 Posts
November 01 2011 23:38 GMT
#1937
Hey all, ive recently been switching over to toss and trying to learn the race, but ive ran into a real problem in PvT. I have a replay that summarizes the last 2 to 4 PvTs ive played, and im seriously lost on what to do in this situation. I tried doing what my build said (zealot/sentry) to hold off any early pressure, but after that they just get Siege tanks and then I usually die at the next push, if anyone more expierenced then me could help me out here I would really apprieciate it.


http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/14914
(and try to look past my ending comment, this was about my 5th loss in a row that day)
Rumor has it Dustin Browder likes destructible rocks....
Dracover
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia177 Posts
November 02 2011 00:35 GMT
#1938
I've been struggling vs Muta play recently. I don't outright die to them. It's more a case of after i get blink stalkers and some obs around the map I find it near impossible to take a 4th base. I've tried planting HTs at my bases but I find by the time i have HTs a decent number of blink stalkers it's like 14-15 mins into the game and the zergs will normally be on 5 bases because I can't move out.

Also on most maps where you will see this (lets use shattered temple as an example) there's always some rocks to destroy and u cant do it safely with just ur zealots. The mutas come into pick them off or you bring stalkers and they swing around to ur 3rd etc.

Maybe it's just "need more apm/multitasking" but are there any strategic methods to stop this? I find the amount of cannons u need per base to def against 10+ mutas is ridculous without moving ur stalkers around.
Don't stop
Exclamark
Profile Joined August 2010
United States29 Posts
November 02 2011 03:32 GMT
#1939
Could somebody recommend me some builds. Ones that are more friendly towards a new player that is in gold?

right now I know an MC 4gate build for pvp

for pvt I'm not sure but I kinda wing it with 3 gates then expand

for pvz same as above.

just give me an idea of something I should look up or a safe macro build you follow. thanks!
ok
Mikelius
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany517 Posts
November 02 2011 05:55 GMT
#1940
On November 02 2011 12:32 Exclamark wrote:
Could somebody recommend me some builds. Ones that are more friendly towards a new player that is in gold?

right now I know an MC 4gate build for pvp

for pvt I'm not sure but I kinda wing it with 3 gates then expand

for pvz same as above.

just give me an idea of something I should look up or a safe macro build you follow. thanks!


First off, I believe you're asking about openers, aside from the 4 gate you are just opening with an econ build in each match up.

Second, don't 4gate PvP, while still "viable" players are starting to really shut it down even when teching and you will outright lose.

PvT I used to do the 3 gate expo into 4 gate, Colossus with +1 and taking it from there when I was in Gold League, I think that still works pretty well.

PvZ 3 gate is very safe but maybe too safe, on most maps you can go FFE and provided you either scout correctly, or straight up tech into a 2 base timing attack while expanding as you attack is pretty much standard.
Less QQ, more PewPew
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