EPTIs there any other option apart from collo in the lategame? Is double robo on 2 base the best strat? :/
The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 93
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ProxyKnoxy
United Kingdom2576 Posts
Is there any other option apart from collo in the lategame? Is double robo on 2 base the best strat? :/ | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On October 27 2011 06:18 Teoita wrote: When playing robo-blink builds vs 1base colossus, i have lost a few games because i tend expand at my nat and then i have a hard time pulling my probes away and getting a nexus up during the base trade; especially on maps like shattered temple and abyssal caverns it's quite hard; i have also died to completely random immortal/gateway units because while they can't break my ramp, i have a hard time defending my nat nexus. On the other hand, i don't really feel comfortable always expanding in a hidden location because it seems a little hard to defend if we are doing a blink/robo mirror, and all i get to see is 3gates and a robo with nothing else before his obs pops and i have to run away with mine. So, what should trigger me to expand at my nat vs far away? Is it particularly map/spawn dependant? Hmm i think it's the colossus/support bay that shoudl be the trigger. There have been a lot of immortal builds lately and blink can't be ruled out fast either. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On October 27 2011 06:27 ProxyKnoxy wrote: Is lategame PvP just pure collossus for anyone else? This guy I played against just made about 20 collossus and my ground army just couldn't do anything... and plus with phoenix it takes about an hour to kill a collo. Is there any other option apart from collo in the lategame? Is double robo on 2 base the best strat? :/ Yup colossus is the way to go again, war of the worlds. what you can do however is trying to kill him faster, or out expand him, with some kind of chargelot/blink stalker/immortal/archon army. These armies are usually a lot better earlier in the mid game compared to the colossus ball which gets better the longer the game goes on. Also voidrays eat them pretty fast if you need some better unit at dealing with them from your stargate. Lategame I think you pretty much need colossus yeah but the more you trade armies the better. If you both only have 4 colossi each at any given moment because of harass and dancing your armies around that will let you micro a lot more instead of A-moving. I don't agree double robo is the best strat on 2 bases though, only later in the game. While it is possible on 2 bases I think it's much better to make more stalkers with blink so you can abuse your opponents lack of gateway units. I usually see double robo colossus builds stay on 3 gates. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On October 27 2011 06:30 Latedi wrote: Hmm i think it's the colossus/support bay that shoudl be the trigger. There have been a lot of immortal builds lately and blink can't be ruled out fast either. I might be overthinking it, but i'm afraid to hide an expo and get double immortal dropped there; it's super rare but it still a possibility. Guess i have to play and test more, thanks  | ||
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Xaeldaren
Ireland588 Posts
It might be a problem with my style - I'm very harassment based with zealots and warp prisms but some times I overcommit and make uneven trades. | ||
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Yaki
France4234 Posts
What did I do wrong and what should I do ? Thanks. | ||
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Darkness2k11
Chile313 Posts
On October 27 2011 06:37 Xaeldaren wrote: I'm having quite a hard time with mutalisks in PvZ. I'm going for blink stalkers, templar and archons along with cannons in my mineral lines but it's still pretty tough. It might be a problem with my style - I'm very harassment based with zealots and warp prisms but some times I overcommit and make uneven trades. I think using a warp prism and zealots drops is pretty good vs muta builds but what you really need is to just keep expanding and teching while he will probably do the same, then you gotta engage him with a really good composition in late game (they will probably get Brood lord/infestor/roach + whatever mutas are left from the mid game) such as storm/archon/Collosus/Blink stalker/inmortal with or without mothership (mothership REALLY helps to deal with brood lords with archon toilet). You can post a replay so we can give more specific advise ^^. On October 27 2011 06:50 Yaki wrote: Hi, i'm havin a really hard time against mutalisks : the zerg just makes like 8 spines at his natural and then goes for mutalisks on 2 base. Meanwhile I put some cannons at my bases and I go for blink but he constantly harrasses me with his mutas while taking a third. Not being to take my 3rd, I eventually decided to go for an attack. He had like 31 mutas and 48 lings and he roflestomped me. What did I do wrong and what should I do ? Thanks. NEVER go all in vs mutalisks unless you are absolutely sure you can break his wall of crawlers, as I just said to the other guy, just keep defending, teching and expanding until you get a really good late game army and THEN you can try to attack. | ||
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KamiSC2
Canada2 Posts
Also if they do know it's coming, how would they defend it (I'm assuming more bunkers/vikings)? I saw this build from GoSuHwangSin: http://sc2rep.com/replays/(T)BcuzofuProS_vs_(P)GoSuHwangSin__sc2rep_com_20110910/13370 Thanks | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On October 27 2011 06:36 Teoita wrote: I might be overthinking it, but i'm afraid to hide an expo and get double immortal dropped there; it's super rare but it still a possibility. Guess i have to play and test more, thanks Everyone is using/having this strategy used against them but I never meet it : / So from my point of view, you don't have to worry about it. On October 27 2011 07:08 Darkness2k11 wrote: I think using a warp prism and zealots drops is pretty good vs muta builds but what you really need is to just keep expanding and teching while he will probably do the same, then you gotta engage him with a really good composition in late game (they will probably get Brood lord/infestor/roach + whatever mutas are left from the mid game) such as storm/archon/Collosus/Blink stalker/inmortal with or without mothership (mothership REALLY helps to deal with brood lords with archon toilet). You can post a replay so we can give more specific advise ^^. NEVER go all in vs mutalisks unless you are absolutely sure you can break his wall of crawlers, as I just said to the other guy, just keep defending, teching and expanding until you get a really good late game army and THEN you can try to attack. About attacking against mutas, I find it being possible when you can break his spine wall and kill the mutas yeah. However you must also be sure you won't die in the baserace because his untis are faster and he had map control for a long time and can have hatcheries anywhere already. So make sure you cannon up like crazy before leaving the base On October 27 2011 07:18 KamiSC2 wrote: For PvT, is there any way to hard counter a terran for going CC first on a map like Shakuras Plateau? Would something like a proxy robo (1 base collosus where you get 2 collosus without range) be able to hard counter the popular fast expand build assuming the proxy doesn't get scouted? Also if they do know it's coming, how would they defend it (I'm assuming more bunkers/vikings)? I saw this build from GoSuHwangSin: http://sc2rep.com/replays/(T)BcuzofuProS_vs_(P)GoSuHwangSin__sc2rep_com_20110910/13370 Thanks Yeah you will probably have it easier being aggressive against this build than a safer one but if you're not blind countering there's not much you can do. When bunkers go down you cant harass with stalkers anymore and if you are not planning on commiting heavily with an all in or something like that you will probably end up behind economically. | ||
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GiygaS
Canada1043 Posts
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
I've been using it, and it works REALLY great, but I'm trying to optimize my build a little more. Like, I don't know whether I should get a sentry of stalker after my zealots, and other little timings. Oh, anyone having trouble with maps that you can't FFE on like XNC, Shattered or Metal, try using 1-gate stargate. ^^ | ||
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Corrosive
Canada3741 Posts
im kinda lost in pvz. i dunno any standard builds or how to play it. can anyone help me out? im mid-high diamond, playing some masters. thanks | ||
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Amornthep
Singapore2605 Posts
On October 27 2011 15:52 Corrosive wrote: Okay so im pretty okay vs terran now, im doing okay in pvp, im kinda lost in pvz. i dunno any standard builds or how to play it. can anyone help me out? im mid-high diamond, playing some masters. thanks On non-FFE maps, 1 Gate Expo > Stargate if he went pool/hatch before gas. If he went gas then go 3 Gate Sentry Expo. Make 1-2 VR to pick off OVs and potentially try to harass, it's ok if you do that much damage cuz he will definitely get spores or hydras and most zergs will not move out without antiair if their opponent has stargate so use this time to get your colossus / secure your 3rd. On maps like Shakuras or Taldarim you can do FFE > Stargate / Warp Prism play for macro or easily transition to timing attacks such as 7 Gate Blink +2 allin, etc. | ||
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FruitsPunchSamurai
United Kingdom87 Posts
On October 27 2011 04:51 Latedi wrote: Heh sorry I have no idea about the actual timing. I know it relatively to my build. However this may vary a lot from person to person, some like to do aggression before they throw their factory down while others tech medivacs as soon as possible. That build is outdated but it should still be possible to use it. The recent double forge builds in GSL looks like that but with a few changes. Where can I find these matches? Also what are the advantages of going HT before Colossi? Thanks. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On October 27 2011 23:17 ThatGuy101 wrote: Where can I find these matches? Also what are the advantages of going HT before Colossi? Thanks. Look for Creator's PvTs on gomtv, I'm pretty sure he does it every game. The advantages of HTs before colossi should be that you can access charge/blink more easily, and if the terran made some standard expand into 3rax with a reactored starport it will take a longer time to get ghosts out than it would take to get vikings out. You also get access to archons if you want them instead of storm. You should have a generally larger army with which you can defend more bases so your third should come faster and harassing should be easier as well. No warp prisms though but with proxies it should be fine. Then there are also a bunch of disavantages I guess. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On October 27 2011 23:36 Latedi wrote: Look for Creator's PvTs on gomtv, I'm pretty sure he does it every game. The advantages of HTs before colossi should be that you can access charge/blink more easily, and if the terran made some standard expand into 3rax with a reactored starport it will take a longer time to get ghosts out than it would take to get vikings out. You also get access to archons if you want them instead of storm. You should have a generally larger army with which you can defend more bases so your third should come faster and harassing should be easier as well. No warp prisms though but with proxies it should be fine. Then there are also a bunch of disavantages I guess. Coming from a colossus-first player (i'm diamond so i'm not 100% sure of this), the main disadvantages of templar before colosuss are 1) you may end up having to spend a lot more gas (templars/archons are a bit more gas intensive than colossi imo), thus having less stalkers, and being a little more vulnerable to drops. This is really situational though, and probably it has to do more with me just sucking vs heavy drop play. The main reason i dislike templar first is that 1) ghosts vs templar i find is waaay more terran favoured than blinkstalkers/colossus vs vikings, and 2) you have no way to control his starport production: if you go colossus he has to make vikings, which limits the number of medivacs. This has two effects: he can drop you a little less as his dropships are more valuable, and eventually your gateway units just do nothing if he gets like 8 medivacs. Even with colossus he will reach that number if he goes double starport, but i find it's much slower. | ||
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Sufr1r
Spain78 Posts
Zergs are generally seen as macro race, with their larvae mechanic and creep spread for quick counter-attacks after defending theirselves. Terran is the aggresive race, with a lot of combinations of harass and cheese. Also they can really secure a position with their siege tanks and turrets. But what about Protoss? All I keep reading is that Protoss is a mixture of the other 2 races, but what would be a good way to describe standard Toss gameplay? When I play Terran and Zerg, I sure have the aggresion/macro idea so I can understand a bit better what should I be doing, but with Protoss I've no clue of what my "standard mindset" should be. I hope someone can give a good answer to this question. Thanks in advance. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On October 28 2011 00:14 Teoita wrote: Coming from a colossus-first player (i'm diamond so i'm not 100% sure of this), the main disadvantages of templar before colosuss are 1) you may end up having to spend a lot more gas (templars/archons are a bit more gas intensive than colossi imo), thus having less stalkers, and being a little more vulnerable to drops. This is really situational though, and probably it has to do more with me just sucking vs heavy drop play. The main reason i dislike templar first is that 1) ghosts vs templar i find is waaay more terran favoured than blinkstalkers/colossus vs vikings, and 2) you have no way to control his starport production: if you go colossus he has to make vikings, which limits the number of medivacs. This has two effects: he can drop you a little less as his dropships are more valuable, and eventually your gateway units just do nothing if he gets like 8 medivacs. Even with colossus he will reach that number if he goes double starport, but i find it's much slower. Yes what you say is true but you got a few weapons against the drops. The most obvious one is feedback, this is really great especially if you can one shot the medivac. If you can't it's still very easy to finish it of with only one stalker or maybe even a storm if you have gathered energy for some time (storm + feedback is crazy strong even against quite low energy medivacs). And as I said earlier it's easier to split your army. Even if you can't kill the actual drop it's still easy to prevent it. You will be very zealot heavy and zealots are generally the best unit to warp in against drop except DTs. You probably won't have to warp them in though as you should have plenty. On October 28 2011 01:33 Sufr1r wrote: A really general question, maybe it's that I'm too blind to find a good reply. Zergs are generally seen as macro race, with their larvae mechanic and creep spread for quick counter-attacks after defending theirselves. Terran is the aggresive race, with a lot of combinations of harass and cheese. Also they can really secure a position with their siege tanks and turrets. But what about Protoss? All I keep reading is that Protoss is a mixture of the other 2 races, but what would be a good way to describe standard Toss gameplay? When I play Terran and Zerg, I sure have the aggresion/macro idea so I can understand a bit better what should I be doing, but with Protoss I've no clue of what my "standard mindset" should be. I hope someone can give a good answer to this question. Thanks in advance. The race is what you make it. Sure you can't be as good at expanding as zerg but you can still focus your rescources and focus on macroing. If I'm only allowed to pick one word though I'd say protoss is the tech race. You normally tech much faster than both terran and zerg, and rely on it to survive. | ||
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hejakev
Sweden518 Posts
On October 28 2011 01:33 Sufr1r wrote: A really general question, maybe it's that I'm too blind to find a good reply. Zergs are generally seen as macro race, with their larvae mechanic and creep spread for quick counter-attacks after defending theirselves. Terran is the aggresive race, with a lot of combinations of harass and cheese. Also they can really secure a position with their siege tanks and turrets. But what about Protoss? All I keep reading is that Protoss is a mixture of the other 2 races, but what would be a good way to describe standard Toss gameplay? When I play Terran and Zerg, I sure have the aggresion/macro idea so I can understand a bit better what should I be doing, but with Protoss I've no clue of what my "standard mindset" should be. I hope someone can give a good answer to this question. Thanks in advance. Like Latedi above me said, protoss traditionally relies on tech (hence the chronoboost mechanic). Though, that's definitely not the only way to play it. Adelscott used mass gateway play in his PvTs during the TSL3, Empire.Kas is considered a beast macro-terran, and there are a few zerg styles that rely on relentless early aggression. Any race can play any role (macro, aggressive, tech, etc), but I think different races are better at certain aspects of those roles. People consider zerg to be a "macro race" because of their ability to fast expand, take quicker bases, and [often] rebuild an army quicker; though now, FFE and 2rax expo have evened out the field in that area. | ||
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AmericanUmlaut
Germany2590 Posts
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