EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 94
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Kluey
Canada1197 Posts
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
On October 28 2011 08:45 Kluey wrote: Does anyone have a speed prism build order? I've been experimenting but my timings are way different each game. For PvP? | ||
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Brainiak
Germany91 Posts
On October 28 2011 03:19 AmericanUmlaut wrote: My perception of Protoss is that we are the race of the indestructable high-tech doom army. Our low-tech units are less cost-efficient than Terran or Zerg, but once we hit the top of our tech tree and have enough opportunity to invest the necessary gas in our army, we can hit the most cost-effective compositions in the game. That would if great if that was true.... :D However broodlord infestor is considered the most powerful army mix and mass mmgv 3/3 owns the deathball too, though this comes down to micro. In the lategame the roles are reversed. Protoss needs to swarm the terran and zerg with and an endless float of gateway units and chronoed robo/stargate units. because protoss units are not that great without an upgrade advantage and roaches/broodlords/marauders/vikings scale so good with upgrades. Only colossi scale as good in terms of upgrades. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On October 28 2011 19:54 Sated wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=233968 Works pretty well in PvT and PvP. Only really works when you're close-by-air, but if you're feeling really cheesy then you can proxy the Robo and do it that way. Make sure you keep the Robo hidden to keep up the pretense that you're doing a normal 1gas 4gate. I think he's looking for some kind of speed prism harass build order but I have no idea. | ||
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Eladen
Slovakia54 Posts
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On October 29 2011 03:59 Eladen wrote: How do you guys keep track of the number of probes you have? Do you literally count them, or use some kind of "sense"? I usually aim for like 75, but usually stop at around 65, or, most lately i got to 107 Box your mineral line and the gases. 2 and a half line (2 inside the gases at all times) means you are saturated at 3 workers per gas and 2 per mineral. 3 and a half lines means you are fully saturated. Normally you want three bases saturated - fully saturated so just box them all and keep track in your head. No need to count the exact numbers but 3 bases should end up around 70-80 depending on the amount you have per base. Of course this will be harder if you decide to harvest 8 gases or more. | ||
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HavokTheorem
New Zealand250 Posts
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Darkness2k11
Chile313 Posts
On October 29 2011 09:34 HavokTheorem wrote: When I fast expand against Zerg, how do I stop a bunch of speedlings just running into my natural mineral lineand wiping my probes out? It seems like even if i put cannons in the line, they can only kill a couple each second while speedlings can take out all my probes the same time. Do you mean using forge FE or 1-3 gate sentry expand?, I'm guessing sentry expand so what you have to do is wall-in with pylons, gate(s) and/or forge so that there are as few spaces as possible that the lings can get through, then when lings run towards your base you just use force fields on those spaces so they can't get in (additionally, you can cast a couple of force fields behind the lings, trapping them, and take them out with sentries ^^). | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On October 29 2011 09:34 HavokTheorem wrote: When I fast expand against Zerg, how do I stop a bunch of speedlings just running into my natural mineral lineand wiping my probes out? It seems like even if i put cannons in the line, they can only kill a couple each second while speedlings can take out all my probes the same time. Sentry! Or full walloff (with a unit(s) plugging your entrace)! | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
I'm thinking I may be making too many Zealots and a largely Stalker/Sentry composition may be better for this attack. Zealots are not worthwhile, I am starting to think, unless I am doing some early pressure off of my first 1 - 2 Gates or if I see a lot of Lings on the field. Maybe I need an extra Gate? So, in these cases, is it usually better to take a faster 3rd? Or to engage with a Stalker/Sentry army? | ||
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Darkness2k11
Chile313 Posts
On October 30 2011 06:26 aZealot wrote: Hi, a quick question regarding PvZ. Against a Zerg putting 3+ spines at his natural, do you think it worth pressuring the front (with by and large a standard Gateway composition)? The Zerg defense is supplemented by Roaches. This is for a push/poke around the time my natural is secure and from my second/third warp in cycle off of 3 - 4 Gates. Most times I won't have a Robo up but may have +1 finished. (I usually 2 - 3 gate expand into Forge into 1 - 2 gates then Robo and go from there.) I'm thinking I may be making too many Zealots and a largely Stalker/Sentry composition may be better for this attack. Zealots are not worthwhile, I am starting to think, unless I am doing some early pressure off of my first 1 - 2 Gates or if I see a lot of Lings on the field. Maybe I need an extra Gate? So, in these cases, is it usually better to take a faster 3rd? Or to engage with a Stalker/Sentry army? I really don't think its worth it, they usually have a ling in front of your nat and as soon as they see you moving out they will hit 5srrrrrrrrrrrrrrr and you will die when you reach their nat, Imo its better to just poke around before your tech is up by killing the scouting lings, maybe an overlord and possibly taking the xel'naga towers, upload a replay so we can give better advise :D. | ||
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Utaheka
Denmark124 Posts
On October 30 2011 06:26 aZealot wrote: It's really hard to find out what you mean, but I'll try to answer your question the best I can (from personal experience ofc)Hi, a quick question regarding PvZ. Against a Zerg putting 3+ spines at his natural, do you think it worth pressuring the front (with by and large a standard Gateway composition)? The Zerg defense is supplemented by Roaches. This is for a push/poke around the time my natural is secure and from my second/third warp in cycle off of 3 - 4 Gates. Most times I won't have a Robo up but may have +1 finished. (I usually 2 - 3 gate expand into Forge into 1 - 2 gates then Robo and go from there.) I'm thinking I may be making too many Zealots and a largely Stalker/Sentry composition may be better for this attack. Zealots are not worthwhile, I am starting to think, unless I am doing some early pressure off of my first 1 - 2 Gates or if I see a lot of Lings on the field. Maybe I need an extra Gate? So, in these cases, is it usually better to take a faster 3rd? Or to engage with a Stalker/Sentry army? When a Zerg puts 3 spines at his natural you have to think about, where he put them.. If it's on big maps like metalopolis - Can you run around and into his natural mineral line? Can you cause enough damage, so it's worth it? It is always worth pressuring a zerg at all times. You could just go and kill his zerglings at watch tower, it will make the zerg overreact and not build drones. Every little poke is important in pvz. What units are you bulding from your 2-3 gate expand? Sentry expand or 3gate pressure? - If you go for 3gate sentry expand, you have to pressure him when you put down your expo at your natural, the zerg is weak at that time, because he probably doesn't have enough tech for roaches yet, because he's been droning so hard. After that your strategy seems decent, even though I think I'd be going for the robo before 1-2 gates, but that's just because it fits me better, I guess, because I want a fast observer so I know what he's doing. I usually go for this Warp-in style: Zealot, Stalker, Sentry, Sentry (between or close to 2nd sentry I build 2 gates and time it with my research), here I warp in 3 zealots and 3 sentries afterwards and go for my expo. After this I pressure him and force him into either making spines or zerglings, depending if he has speed or not. I hope this helps you! Best Regards, Utaheka  | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
I won't post a replay yet because I'm only a Gold level player - probably have a few things more to work on before doing that. That said, if I keep having trouble though, I will post one up later. Cheers. Edit: @ Utaheka, thanks man. Both maps featured small chokes into the natural. So that may explain it, as I just could not avoid taking spine hits while dealing with the roaches. (I don't do a pure 3 Gate Sentry expand, btw, as I like having more Zealots and less Sentries, and usually sacrifice the 3rd Gate so that I can pay for the Zealot and get an expansion up reasonably around the 6 minute mark.) | ||
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Tekakan
Sweden78 Posts
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Utaheka
Denmark124 Posts
On October 30 2011 08:33 Tekakan wrote: Hey man. I have a replay of myself doing this new "PvT" build if you are interested?^^ - It's basically charge and +1 armor timed with a 1gate expo. - Just write here if you're interested Does anyone have pro replays they can recommend of someone opening 1 gate FE, going for Zealot/Archon with a quick Charge and taking your 3d base ASAP. Preferably before you take your 3 and 4 th gas. I know it's very specifik but I've heared it's a new P vs T build. I've tried it out, liked it but do need to perfect it.  - otherwise try and look at White-Ra stream, he does it ALOT^^ - Best of luck,Utaheka | ||
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BoBiNoU
France181 Posts
I'm seriously clueless about that... if you spread your units they evaporate to the small stimmed force and as soon as you attack, emp kicks in http://replayfu.com/download/pgzDxc ok this is not the best example as I alt-tab'd a lot in the early game | ||
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Spammish
United Kingdom42 Posts
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Darkness2k11
Chile313 Posts
On October 30 2011 09:06 BoBiNoU wrote: How do you deal with a 3rax/stim/ghost push ? I'm seriously clueless about that... if you spread your units they evaporate to the small stimmed force and as soon as you attack, emp kicks in http://replayfu.com/download/pgzDxc ok this is not the best example as I alt-tab'd a lot in the early game Well first your BO was pretty badly executed and 1 gate robo expand is the kind of stuff you want to do against 1/1/1 or for really fast collosus, it isn't that great when used for other stuff. You didn't poke with your scouting probe or with a stalker to see whether or not he was getting an add on, does he have a bunker, how many marines does he have, does he have marauders, etc etc etc. to hold that timing push you need to get additional gates earlier, spread your sentries, forcefield and micro, or rush for collosus, use force fields, and again, micro, pull some probes if needed but not more than 5-6. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On October 30 2011 09:29 Spammish wrote: Does anyone have any recent-ish pro replays of 6 gates vZ, I've been having some trouble with mutas and putting on early aggression in PvZ (probably related) and I'd like to study some pro 6 gates so I have something to trot out if I suspect the Zerg is going mutas as well as helping me with my "fear" of early aggression in PvZ. Sorry i don't have a replay but I can tell you that 6gate is made to kill tech or a fast third. This includes mutas so you shouldn't really have any problem. Maybe you make too many/few probes or the wrong units. If you want to learn early aggression I'd rather suggest you try to put pressure on with a few stalkers before zergling speed is done. | ||
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