EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 92
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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rEalGuapo
Germany832 Posts
Never. Seriously, I do not think they are really useful before super-lategame. Reasons: 1) Immense building time - allowing Z to scout them easily and not allowing you quick transitions. 2) The unit itself - True, Carriers do have quite the high DPS, but if Z gets a couple of Corruptors and/or Hydras they suck, Corruptors will just destroy them NP and Hdyras kill the Interceptors real quick. Wich means: 3) The Zerg will just outright "counter" them, scouting them in time and building 12 Corruptors at once. Leading to: I only build Carriers in super-late against Terran for constant tech switches with Colossi or Chargelot Archon (wich wins me almost every game that comes this far) | ||
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SGilna
Singapore27 Posts
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On October 25 2011 12:25 SGilna wrote: i m sorry guys, here i m again trying to look for builds..err mind teaching me the build order against zerg? e.g. ffe...i think i have been doing it wrongly since season 4 started, i played against many zergs and they jus overwhelm me with mutas(when i go for collos) TT or hydras(when i go for stargates)...hmm..confused as to wad to do. The safest forge fast expand is as follows: 9 pylon 13 forge if you scout no early aggression: 16-18 nexus, otherwise you need to get defenses up. As for being countered you have to scout him and coutner what he's doing. Or force hydras with air and then transition into colossus tech. On October 25 2011 12:56 socommaster123 wrote: I have been losing to a lot of terrans lately due to me being semi greedy. I have been using the Huk 1 gate expand, and I have been getting punished pretty hard with it. I'm interested in another build that is a bit safer to some type of early Terran pressure, but still able to expand before 30. It's all about preference here. All the FE builds except gets core and some amount of units (except nexus first). For example you can expand on 29 with 2 stalkers. Or on 26 with 1. You just cant fit more builds this early into the game. On October 25 2011 14:02 Osito12 wrote: Looking for some help in my PvZ play. I´m not sure what to do when zerg put down a early expo. Should I expand like the zerg to keep up with him or would it be better try and attack the zerg ASAP. I cant figure out what the best thing to do in that situation is. Thanks in advance This is up to you but a zerg expanding is just standard. It's nothing weird with it. You shouldn't really have to adapt your build because of it because it should already be taken into account that the zerg will expand. Making defenses on one base should be a deviation. The best thing to do is just playing normally. If you do want to get aggressive there are a few thigns you can abuse. You can cannon rush him if you went forge FE or if you are going for 1-3gate FE you can chrono out a few stalkers and put pressure on him before speed is out. Also note that eh will have a hard time beign aggressive so you should be fine taking a pretty fast expansion yourself. 1gate FE should be perfectly safe and if you went for forge FE you can delay or sometimes even skip the cannon. On October 25 2011 16:54 SGilna wrote: getting crushed by zerg by 100%...help! i cant stop zerg from remaking and remaking those unit...they seem uncrushable! my opponents just tech up hydras and roaches and cleared my army easily...wad should i do? Are the zergs only making roach hydra? Make colossus and stomp them  Other than that I think it's a macro problem, remember to make probes, take new expansions, get appropriate tech and chrono those attack upgrades. | ||
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SGilna
Singapore27 Posts
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Vexas
United States98 Posts
I have not played much since Patch 1.4 which has DRASTICALLY changed the PvP MU seemingly. My 4 gate pre-patch was pretty strong but seemingly now it is all about 1-2 base robo play. Can anyone point me in the direction of a good build order for a 3 gate robo build or any other build that is now good for PvP since patch 1.4? Replays would be amazing as well if you can tell me where to find good ones from recent tourneys etc. Thanks in advance! Gl and Hf! | ||
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awwnuts07
United States621 Posts
Here are my questions: BTW, I'm only in Gold 1.PvP-What are the most commonly used builds now? Since 1.4, I'm assuming there's much less 4 gating (except on Tal Darim) and more macro games. Is it all about 2 gate robo into expo or is there something else. There's so much info here, I don't know where to start. 2.PvT-Are the standard openers still viable (1g-FE, 2g Robo, 3g-FE) or did something else pop up while I was away? 3.PvZ-I'm not really gonna ask a question here since I've already decided on trying out Crow!'s Gate Forge build. Looks fun and I love zealots. Thanks in advance | ||
monk
United States8477 Posts
On October 26 2011 03:57 awwnuts07 wrote: Hihi, TL. It's been about 3-4 months since I've played some SC2 (been spending all my time with my original mistress, Street Fighter) and I'd like to get back into the swing of things. I realize there have been some serious patches since I stopped playing and I'd like to get some advice on a couple of match-ups. Here are my questions: BTW, I'm only in Gold 1.PvP-What are the most commonly used builds now? Since 1.4, I'm assuming there's much less 4 gating (except on Tal Darim) and more macro games. Is it all about 2 gate robo into expo or is there something else. There's so much info here, I don't know where to start. 2.PvT-Are the standard openers still viable (1g-FE, 2g Robo, 3g-FE) or did something else pop up while I was away? 3.PvZ-I'm not really gonna ask a question here since I've already decided on trying out Crow!'s Gate Forge build. Looks fun and I love zealots. Thanks in advance 1. Expands and stargate builds have gotten more popular while blink builds have become less popular. Obs + blink is still the predominant build however. Warp prisms are being used more in this MU as well. I've seen 2 immortal drops with a speed prism, as well as sentry/zealot drops and pure zealot drops. 2. 1 gate FE and 2 gate robo as still fine, but 3 gate FE is almost never used nowadays because of the prevalence of the marine tank banshee allin. 3 gate FE is close to a BO loss against the marine tank banshee allin. | ||
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awwnuts07
United States621 Posts
On October 26 2011 04:20 NrGmonk wrote: 1. Expands and stargate builds have gotten more popular while blink builds have become less popular. Obs + blink is still the predominant build however. Warp prisms are being used more in this MU as well. I've seen 2 immortal drops with a speed prism, as well as sentry/zealot drops and pure zealot drops. 2. 1 gate FE and 2 gate robo as still fine, but 3 gate FE is almost never used nowadays because of the prevalence of the marine tank banshee allin. 3 gate FE is close to a BO loss against the marine tank banshee allin. thx. Nice to know I don't have to start from scratch. | ||
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Mikelius
Germany517 Posts
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vahgar.r24
India465 Posts
OK, at 10 mins we have same supply, I even saw this marine tank raven push (111?) coming and still lost . How do I beat this?! | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On October 26 2011 01:58 SGilna wrote: thanks latedi-> always a great help! (to me) :D shall go try the new build..cuz wad i had always been doing is far from tis... No problem It's fun for me.On October 26 2011 02:23 Vexas wrote: Hey all! Been looking for a place to ask for help with my PvP and this definitely seems like the spot to start ;3 I have not played much since Patch 1.4 which has DRASTICALLY changed the PvP MU seemingly. My 4 gate pre-patch was pretty strong but seemingly now it is all about 1-2 base robo play. Can anyone point me in the direction of a good build order for a 3 gate robo build or any other build that is now good for PvP since patch 1.4? Replays would be amazing as well if you can tell me where to find good ones from recent tourneys etc. Thanks in advance! Gl and Hf! There are a lot of builds that are usable now : D Instead of like a few robo builds, you can now be safe with almost whatever. My preferred build is gate robo gate into expand. What units you get depends so much on scouting but you want zealot satlker sentry sentry out of the first gate, or something else if you like haha, but that's how I do it. This maens you can easily get another gate after that. You can go the other way around too of course and that's maybe better. With that I mean you do some kind of economic/safe 3gate and then follow up with a robo when you are sure you are safe. Sorry no replay I can think of :< Watch Tyler's stream if you can. | ||
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Vexas
United States98 Posts
On October 26 2011 06:27 Latedi wrote: No problem It's fun for me.There are a lot of builds that are usable now : D Instead of like a few robo builds, you can now be safe with almost whatever. My preferred build is gate robo gate into expand. What units you get depends so much on scouting but you want zealot satlker sentry sentry out of the first gate, or something else if you like haha, but that's how I do it. This maens you can easily get another gate after that. You can go the other way around too of course and that's maybe better. With that I mean you do some kind of economic/safe 3gate and then follow up with a robo when you are sure you are safe. Sorry no replay I can think of :< Watch Tyler's stream if you can. Thanks for all the help! :3 No worries on the no replays. I think I found some from Huk that will do the trick! Gl and Hf! | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On October 26 2011 07:23 Vexas wrote: Thanks for all the help! :3 No worries on the no replays. I think I found some from Huk that will do the trick! Gl and Hf! Ahaha Yeah, HuK should do the trick, I can't imagine him using bad builds. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On October 26 2011 04:56 Mikelius wrote: Not so much a Protoss question, but is there any best practice when scouting in a 4 player map? Is 9 better than 12? Also what is the best direction to scout, if there is any best direction? This depends on the matchup and how safe your build is to cheese. For example you can't 15 nexus if you don't 9 scout because you can't rule out 6pools or 2raxes. But say a in PvP on tal darim altar, you don't really have to scout that early, because it's going to be hard to cheese for your opponent. There have been instances of 2gate proxies in the middle and such but it's not as dangerous as on a 2 player map. The direction should always be at the position closest to you to rule out rushes as soon as possible. Also proceed with the fastest scouting possible, for example don't scout 3 9 12 on shattered temple if you spawn at 6, rather go 3 12 9 to not waste time. In high level play when you and your opponent got your scouting timings on that map down to the second, you can scout other positions first for mind games. tl;dr Scout the closest position first and proceed with the fastest scouting possible. Is your build vulnerable to cheese? Scout on 9. Is it a very safe build? Scout on 12/13. Don't forget to check the xel naga towers or obvious proxy locations if your scout passes them. Note that some builds/maps require a double scout, such as a forge FE on tal darim altar. You have to scout on both 9 and 12/13 to be safe. | ||
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FruitsPunchSamurai
United Kingdom87 Posts
Is it better for a lower league (gold) player to do a 2 Gate Robo build or to do 1 Gate expand? Is there an up to date thread that deals with PvT midgame and timings? Because I don't know what to do for the midgame and all my tech seems late. Thanks for any advice. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On October 27 2011 02:37 ThatGuy101 wrote: Some questions on PvT. Is it better for a lower league (gold) player to do a 2 Gate Robo build or to do 1 Gate expand? Is there an up to date thread that deals with PvT midgame and timings? Because I don't know what to do for the midgame and all my tech seems late. Thanks for any advice. I suggest you grind out the build you plan on going with until you got it down. So if you want to 1gate FE don't 2gate robo because you feel like it's better/easier to use in a lower league. Myself I started out ni silver league and I used 1gate FE all the way to masters ^^ And as for the timings you should be aware of it's mostly either ghost timing (usually comes with 2 EMPs to take out your sentries and then stim/kite your army to death) or the 2 medivac timing (Either just a srtaight up push/poke or some kind of drop play). For the ghosts you need to spread your army and get like 4 sentries, depending on the map and what play style you use. For example if you got charge fast enough that could help you if the sentries got no energy. Well what you want to do is just taking minimal EMP damage and then killing of the terran army somehow, be it with forcefields charge, colossus or by any other means. Then for the medivacs you must leave some stalkers in your main and try to catch any medivacs. If you got an observer a bit outside the most common drop area that can help you spot it in time. And then the usual stuff at your natural but you dont' have to spread your units. There are other timings too but they are fairly non standard. | ||
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FruitsPunchSamurai
United Kingdom87 Posts
On October 27 2011 03:51 Latedi wrote: I suggest you grind out the build you plan on going with until you got it down. So if you want to 1gate FE don't 2gate robo because you feel like it's better/easier to use in a lower league. Myself I started out ni silver league and I used 1gate FE all the way to masters ^^ And as for the timings you should be aware of it's mostly either ghost timing (usually comes with 2 EMPs to take out your sentries and then stim/kite your army to death) or the 2 medivac timing (Either just a srtaight up push/poke or some kind of drop play). For the ghosts you need to spread your army and get like 4 sentries, depending on the map and what play style you use. For example if you got charge fast enough that could help you if the sentries got no energy. Well what you want to do is just taking minimal EMP damage and then killing of the terran army somehow, be it with forcefields charge, colossus or by any other means. Then for the medivacs you must leave some stalkers in your main and try to catch any medivacs. If you got an observer a bit outside the most common drop area that can help you spot it in time. And then the usual stuff at your natural but you dont' have to spread your units. There are other timings too but they are fairly non standard. Around what time would these timings come? Also, is this double forge style still working? Thanks again for your help. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On October 27 2011 04:16 ThatGuy101 wrote: + Show Spoiler + On October 27 2011 03:51 Latedi wrote: I suggest you grind out the build you plan on going with until you got it down. So if you want to 1gate FE don't 2gate robo because you feel like it's better/easier to use in a lower league. Myself I started out ni silver league and I used 1gate FE all the way to masters ^^ And as for the timings you should be aware of it's mostly either ghost timing (usually comes with 2 EMPs to take out your sentries and then stim/kite your army to death) or the 2 medivac timing (Either just a srtaight up push/poke or some kind of drop play). For the ghosts you need to spread your army and get like 4 sentries, depending on the map and what play style you use. For example if you got charge fast enough that could help you if the sentries got no energy. Well what you want to do is just taking minimal EMP damage and then killing of the terran army somehow, be it with forcefields charge, colossus or by any other means. Then for the medivacs you must leave some stalkers in your main and try to catch any medivacs. If you got an observer a bit outside the most common drop area that can help you spot it in time. And then the usual stuff at your natural but you dont' have to spread your units. There are other timings too but they are fairly non standard. Around what time would these timings come? Also, is this double forge style still working? Thanks again for your help. Heh sorry I have no idea about the actual timing. I know it relatively to my build. However this may vary a lot from person to person, some like to do aggression before they throw their factory down while others tech medivacs as soon as possible. That build is outdated but it should still be possible to use it. The recent double forge builds in GSL looks like that but with a few changes. | ||
Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
On the other hand, i don't really feel comfortable always expanding in a hidden location because it seems a little hard to defend if we are doing a blink/robo mirror, and all i get to see is 3gates and a robo with nothing else before his obs pops and i have to run away with mine. So, what should trigger me to expand at my nat vs far away? Is it particularly map/spawn dependant? | ||
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