EPTLike what are the pros and cons of each?
The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 91
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CrazyF1r3f0x
United States2120 Posts
Like what are the pros and cons of each? | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On October 24 2011 08:48 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote: What do you think of a 1gate or 3gate expo v a 1gate-stargate expand in PvZ? Like what are the pros and cons of each? 1 Gate, faster Nexus, less units earlier. 3 Gate, more units earlier, slower nexus. 1 Gate Stargate, you get access to SG units very fast, very little WG units early on. | ||
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xmikeyy17x
United States92 Posts
just curious thats all. i think its way risky and impossible to defend a 4gate with that. | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On October 24 2011 11:27 xmikeyy17x wrote: do you guys think 2gate stargate is strong in pvp? just curious thats all. i think its way risky and impossible to defend a 4gate with that. Stargate is extremely strong in PvP. However, the discussion around builds and defending 4 gate is a whole another issue and actually shouldn't be involved with your mid game composition (i.e. your phoenix isn't going to get out in time to help defend a 4 gate. The only exception is those super fast 1 gate robo builds aimed at getting an immortal out in time to help defend a 4 gate). A good PvP player will not have a 100% set opening build order - if he scouts his opponent not 4 gating, he will change his build to cut less probes, get earlier gas, etc., whereas if he scouts his opponent potentially doing a 4 gate he might cut probes, get additional gateways earlier, etc. So really it all comes down to what your opponent's build is, how early you get those gates, how you allocate your chronos, and how you cut probes to determine what exactly is "safe" against a 4 gate. For example, when I do phoenix builds, if I scout my opponent spending 3 chronos on probes, getting a 2nd gas, and getting that 3rd pylon, I'll go 1 gate stargate, whereas if I scout my opponent cutting probes, saving chronos for warpgate tech, and no second gas, I'm going to go 3 gate then stargate. | ||
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ArmyyStrongg
United States39 Posts
someone please help me. Im about ready to quit starcraft. I really want to get better at this game and I dont know what im doing wrong. Im not someone that can watch my own replay and see what im doing wrong. My main problem is agaisnt zerg and my best matchup used to be PvP but i cant even win that anymore. Can someone watch my replay tell me what im doing wrong and give me tips on someone who basically wants to restart | ||
monk
United States8477 Posts
On October 24 2011 13:14 ArmyyStrongg wrote: http://www.mediafire.com/?qpct54xbnaey67u someone please help me. Im about ready to quit starcraft. I really want to get better at this game and I dont know what im doing wrong. Im not someone that can watch my own replay and see what im doing wrong. My main problem is agaisnt zerg and my best matchup used to be PvP but i cant even win that anymore. Can someone watch my replay tell me what im doing wrong and give me tips on someone who basically wants to restart First of all, you need to stop repeating yourself. Also, you have no direction with your build and no overarching game plan. I can't even give you specific advice on that game, because I don't know what you were trying to do. My advice would be to watch a lot of pro replays. You can also find some solid builds and copy them to a tee before free-styling like you do. | ||
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ArmyyStrongg
United States39 Posts
On October 24 2011 13:23 NrGmonk wrote: First of all, you need to stop repeating yourself. Also, you have no direction with your build and no overarching game plan. I can't even give you specific advice on that game, because I don't know what you were trying to do. My advice would be to watch a lot of pro replays. You can also find some solid builds and copy them to a tee before free-styling like you do. I was going for a 3 gate robo expand, then i got Dark Templar rushed and my probes got hit hard, so while i was trying to rebuild he pushed me and that was about game. yea ill do that | ||
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GloryOfAiur
United States127 Posts
Would the new rushed 4 gate hard counter that Anti-4gate Sentry build? | ||
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Mitchlew
Australia428 Posts
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On October 24 2011 14:51 GloryOfAiur wrote: Assuming your opponent does not go for some sort of 3 Stalker play, is the traditional 4 gate with 2 stalkers and 1 Zealot with a proxy Pylon at the bottom of the ramp better, or the instantly send your first Zealot and Stalker into their base while spamming a few Pylons in their main? Would the new rushed 4 gate hard counter that Anti-4gate Sentry build? Yes if you can get pylons into the main that should be better than having them outside, especially with the vision change on ramps. I doubt however that a 4gate can beat an anti 4gate build if your opponent doesn't make any mistakes. On October 24 2011 17:40 Mitchlew wrote: I have been out of the scene for a bit and it seems pvp has changed so much. I keep noticing 2 gate openings with robos and twilights. Lots of immortals + blink stalkers. Whats the normal pvp openings now days? Liqupedia seems to be very outdated. I'd say it's either robo blink or some kind of fast expand. There are a lot of builds being used right now and PvP can be very different from game to game. | ||
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Xahhk
Canada540 Posts
On October 24 2011 13:14 ArmyyStrongg wrote: http://www.mediafire.com/?qpct54xbnaey67u someone please help me. Im about ready to quit starcraft. I really want to get better at this game and I dont know what im doing wrong. Im not someone that can watch my own replay and see what im doing wrong. My main problem is agaisnt zerg and my best matchup used to be PvP but i cant even win that anymore. Can someone watch my replay tell me what im doing wrong and give me tips on someone who basically wants to restart Short answer? Just 4 gate. If you want to be sneaky, do a 3 stalker opening... BUT make 2 gates after you start your second stalker and 4 gate anyway. Long? Poke his ramp with something to see what kind of units he has out. if you don't see many units AND no sentries he is teching up fast to something. Use a build that can both defend against a 4 gate and can transition to something quickly once you scout (and hope your opponent isn't mindfucking you) These include: 1. 3 stalker build 2. PVP defensive 3 gate (you can search for this in TL) 3. MC's pvp build? (Apparently it's hard to pull off) | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
On October 24 2011 14:51 GloryOfAiur wrote: Assuming your opponent does not go for some sort of 3 Stalker play, is the traditional 4 gate with 2 stalkers and 1 Zealot with a proxy Pylon at the bottom of the ramp better, or the instantly send your first Zealot and Stalker into their base while spamming a few Pylons in their main? Would the new rushed 4 gate hard counter that Anti-4gate Sentry build? Trying to build a pylon in your opponent's main (at least on top of the ramp) is pretty much the only way to 4 gate now due to the ramp vision change. Any other 4 gate that has a proxy pylon not in your opponent's main pretty much will have to rely on your opponent not scouting it, you hiding it, or you disguising your build to not look like a 4 gate for it to work. | ||
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Audemed
United States893 Posts
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On October 25 2011 02:47 Audemed wrote: What to do against colossi in PVP? I'll often win with 4gate or 3gate immortal pushes, but sometimes I'll get hit by good FF or more zealots than I can easily keep off the immortals, and the push fails, just to go into him building as many colossi as possible. I've tried everything I can think of: Zealot/immortal/void, zealot/immortal/blink, mass blink, zealot/phoenix/(immortal), mass voids, zealot/archon, even tried a fast mothership. Nothing seems to work, as my army just melts by the time it's in range. If he goes for colossi, is colossi in response the only way to go? Well you are far behind if you push and your opponents defends it. Either you make your attack stronger/faster somehow or you try to deal with the colossus in some way without failing a push first. You can use immortals if his colossus don't have range, some kind of archon/chargelot composition with support from blink stalkers and/or immortals is generally really strong before 200/200 food if you can engage in an open area. You can use voidrays but it feels a bit risky to me, I'm not sure how you would do that. And obviously you can get colossi yourself, war of the worlds is pretty standard. | ||
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Darkness2k11
Chile313 Posts
On October 25 2011 03:44 Latedi wrote: Well you are far behind if you push and your opponents defends it. Either you make your attack stronger/faster somehow or you try to deal with the colossus in some way without failing a push first. You can use immortals if his colossus don't have range, some kind of archon/chargelot composition with support from blink stalkers and/or immortals is generally really strong before 200/200 food if you can engage in an open area. You can use voidrays but it feels a bit risky to me, I'm not sure how you would do that. And obviously you can get colossi yourself, war of the worlds is pretty standard. If you go robo/blink you have to expand as soon as you spot the robotics bay being made with your observer and delay his push (or deny his expo) with blink stalkers while adding inmortals and maybe a templar archives, then use your superior army to get a better positioning and win (archons really help against those force fields), or you can keep expanding and getting upgrades and then own him with a bigger army ^^. | ||
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SGilna
Singapore27 Posts
since season 4 started, i played against many zergs and they jus overwhelm me with mutas(when i go for collos) TT or hydras(when i go for stargates)...hmm..confused as to wad to do. | ||
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socommaster123
United States578 Posts
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Osito12
Denmark11 Posts
Thanks in advance | ||
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SGilna
Singapore27 Posts
for zerg his opening was : + Show Spoiler + 9 pylon 13 forge 16 nexus 16 gate 17 cannon 18 pylon 18 gasx2 heres the terran: + Show Spoiler + 9 pylon 16 nexus 16 gate 18 gas 18 pylon 21 core 30 2nd gas wondering if its appropriate?cuz its abit different from wad i learned... | ||
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monk
United States8477 Posts
On October 25 2011 14:05 SGilna wrote: anyws i saw hero's playing style against both zerg and terran for zerg his opening was : + Show Spoiler + 9 pylon 13 forge 16 nexus 16 gate 17 cannon 18 pylon 18 gasx2 heres the terran: + Show Spoiler + 9 pylon 16 nexus 16 gate 18 gas 18 pylon 21 core 30 2nd gas wondering if its appropriate?cuz its abit different from wad i learned... Forge fe is standard in PvZ 16 nexus is a heavy econ build. While it's not standard nor perfectly safe, the terran has to pretty much blind counter it for it to die. | ||
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