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On October 21 2011 23:07 Zarent wrote:
Okay, lets say in PvP on a normal map (like Shattered Temple, for example, crossmap positions). I'm going for a standard stalker based build, and see him steal one of my gasses. Due to my scouting probe being far away, I attempt to steal his gas but can't get there before him.
End result: he has 2 gasses and I can't get mine for a while, especially since I started a stalker before a zealot. What is the correct response to this?
Pre 1.4, I could've just balls 4gated and killed him for being a greedy S.O.B. However, 2-3 sentries can basically indefinitely hold off a stalker based 4gate, so this doesn't seem to be as much of an option.
What I did was went for a 4gate, showing his scouting probe this, and pushed out. Never cut probes though. Dropped a proxy pylon outside his main, and forced a few forcefields without losing anything. Took an early expo when I had him contained and also threw down a robo. I spotted him going for colossitech and he has much higher tech than me due to his stealing of my gas. I also, however, see him going for a much later expo than me, not gearing up for a timing attack. Do I do the normal PvX build and just expo again and just go immortal/something, do I throw down a much later colossiden and use my greater LATER gas income to throw up another robo and get eventually more colossi, or do I do some sort of blink stalker play? Thanks!
Imo if they go double gas and they steal your 2nd gas then you should go 24 nexus while getting ride of that gas steal, if they expand later on instead of pushing just expand again while getting your tech and upgrades(In shattered temple you can take the gold), then you can destroy him with a huge army lead and better upgrades  , if they all in from 1 base you should be able to defend with a superior economy and good decision making (as long as you executed the build properly).
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Italy12247 Posts
On October 21 2011 23:32 Darkness2k11 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 23:07 Zarent wrote:
Okay, lets say in PvP on a normal map (like Shattered Temple, for example, crossmap positions). I'm going for a standard stalker based build, and see him steal one of my gasses. Due to my scouting probe being far away, I attempt to steal his gas but can't get there before him.
End result: he has 2 gasses and I can't get mine for a while, especially since I started a stalker before a zealot. What is the correct response to this?
Pre 1.4, I could've just balls 4gated and killed him for being a greedy S.O.B. However, 2-3 sentries can basically indefinitely hold off a stalker based 4gate, so this doesn't seem to be as much of an option.
What I did was went for a 4gate, showing his scouting probe this, and pushed out. Never cut probes though. Dropped a proxy pylon outside his main, and forced a few forcefields without losing anything. Took an early expo when I had him contained and also threw down a robo. I spotted him going for colossitech and he has much higher tech than me due to his stealing of my gas. I also, however, see him going for a much later expo than me, not gearing up for a timing attack. Do I do the normal PvX build and just expo again and just go immortal/something, do I throw down a much later colossiden and use my greater LATER gas income to throw up another robo and get eventually more colossi, or do I do some sort of blink stalker play? Thanks! Imo if they go double gas and they steal your 2nd gas then you should go 24 nexus while getting ride of that gas steal, if they expand later on instead of pushing just expand again while getting your tech and upgrades(In shattered temple you can take the gold), then you can destroy him with a huge army lead and better upgrades , if they all in from 1 base you should be able to defend with a superior economy and good decision making (as long as you executed the build properly).
I generally agree with this, but i suggest faking a 4gate rather than getting rid of the gas asap. You need minerals for gates and the nexus anyway. If you fake a 4gate, you can keep him honest and slow down his teching, which would slow down his eventual 1base push anyway.
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On October 21 2011 23:50 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 23:32 Darkness2k11 wrote:On October 21 2011 23:07 Zarent wrote:
Okay, lets say in PvP on a normal map (like Shattered Temple, for example, crossmap positions). I'm going for a standard stalker based build, and see him steal one of my gasses. Due to my scouting probe being far away, I attempt to steal his gas but can't get there before him.
End result: he has 2 gasses and I can't get mine for a while, especially since I started a stalker before a zealot. What is the correct response to this?
Pre 1.4, I could've just balls 4gated and killed him for being a greedy S.O.B. However, 2-3 sentries can basically indefinitely hold off a stalker based 4gate, so this doesn't seem to be as much of an option.
What I did was went for a 4gate, showing his scouting probe this, and pushed out. Never cut probes though. Dropped a proxy pylon outside his main, and forced a few forcefields without losing anything. Took an early expo when I had him contained and also threw down a robo. I spotted him going for colossitech and he has much higher tech than me due to his stealing of my gas. I also, however, see him going for a much later expo than me, not gearing up for a timing attack. Do I do the normal PvX build and just expo again and just go immortal/something, do I throw down a much later colossiden and use my greater LATER gas income to throw up another robo and get eventually more colossi, or do I do some sort of blink stalker play? Thanks! Imo if they go double gas and they steal your 2nd gas then you should go 24 nexus while getting ride of that gas steal, if they expand later on instead of pushing just expand again while getting your tech and upgrades(In shattered temple you can take the gold), then you can destroy him with a huge army lead and better upgrades , if they all in from 1 base you should be able to defend with a superior economy and good decision making (as long as you executed the build properly). I generally agree with this, but i suggest faking a 4gate rather than getting rid of the gas asap. You need minerals for gates and the nexus anyway. If you fake a 4gate, you can keep him honest and slow down his teching, which would slow down his eventual 1base push anyway.
You are already making him think that you are 4 gating because you have lots of chrono energy, 20 probes, zealot and stalker.
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Italy12247 Posts
On October 22 2011 00:00 Darkness2k11 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2011 23:50 Teoita wrote:On October 21 2011 23:32 Darkness2k11 wrote:On October 21 2011 23:07 Zarent wrote:
Okay, lets say in PvP on a normal map (like Shattered Temple, for example, crossmap positions). I'm going for a standard stalker based build, and see him steal one of my gasses. Due to my scouting probe being far away, I attempt to steal his gas but can't get there before him.
End result: he has 2 gasses and I can't get mine for a while, especially since I started a stalker before a zealot. What is the correct response to this?
Pre 1.4, I could've just balls 4gated and killed him for being a greedy S.O.B. However, 2-3 sentries can basically indefinitely hold off a stalker based 4gate, so this doesn't seem to be as much of an option.
What I did was went for a 4gate, showing his scouting probe this, and pushed out. Never cut probes though. Dropped a proxy pylon outside his main, and forced a few forcefields without losing anything. Took an early expo when I had him contained and also threw down a robo. I spotted him going for colossitech and he has much higher tech than me due to his stealing of my gas. I also, however, see him going for a much later expo than me, not gearing up for a timing attack. Do I do the normal PvX build and just expo again and just go immortal/something, do I throw down a much later colossiden and use my greater LATER gas income to throw up another robo and get eventually more colossi, or do I do some sort of blink stalker play? Thanks! Imo if they go double gas and they steal your 2nd gas then you should go 24 nexus while getting ride of that gas steal, if they expand later on instead of pushing just expand again while getting your tech and upgrades(In shattered temple you can take the gold), then you can destroy him with a huge army lead and better upgrades , if they all in from 1 base you should be able to defend with a superior economy and good decision making (as long as you executed the build properly). I generally agree with this, but i suggest faking a 4gate rather than getting rid of the gas asap. You need minerals for gates and the nexus anyway. If you fake a 4gate, you can keep him honest and slow down his teching, which would slow down his eventual 1base push anyway. You are already making him think that you are 4 gating because you have lots of chrono energy, 20 probes, zealot and stalker.
What i meant is actually going to his ramp with 1s and 1z, throwing down a pylon and trying to bate a ff, maybe even snipe a unit or two. If you kill the gas i don't think you actually get to his ramp in time, even though it's quite map dependant.
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On October 22 2011 00:09 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 00:00 Darkness2k11 wrote:On October 21 2011 23:50 Teoita wrote:On October 21 2011 23:32 Darkness2k11 wrote:On October 21 2011 23:07 Zarent wrote:
Okay, lets say in PvP on a normal map (like Shattered Temple, for example, crossmap positions). I'm going for a standard stalker based build, and see him steal one of my gasses. Due to my scouting probe being far away, I attempt to steal his gas but can't get there before him.
End result: he has 2 gasses and I can't get mine for a while, especially since I started a stalker before a zealot. What is the correct response to this?
Pre 1.4, I could've just balls 4gated and killed him for being a greedy S.O.B. However, 2-3 sentries can basically indefinitely hold off a stalker based 4gate, so this doesn't seem to be as much of an option.
What I did was went for a 4gate, showing his scouting probe this, and pushed out. Never cut probes though. Dropped a proxy pylon outside his main, and forced a few forcefields without losing anything. Took an early expo when I had him contained and also threw down a robo. I spotted him going for colossitech and he has much higher tech than me due to his stealing of my gas. I also, however, see him going for a much later expo than me, not gearing up for a timing attack. Do I do the normal PvX build and just expo again and just go immortal/something, do I throw down a much later colossiden and use my greater LATER gas income to throw up another robo and get eventually more colossi, or do I do some sort of blink stalker play? Thanks! Imo if they go double gas and they steal your 2nd gas then you should go 24 nexus while getting ride of that gas steal, if they expand later on instead of pushing just expand again while getting your tech and upgrades(In shattered temple you can take the gold), then you can destroy him with a huge army lead and better upgrades , if they all in from 1 base you should be able to defend with a superior economy and good decision making (as long as you executed the build properly). I generally agree with this, but i suggest faking a 4gate rather than getting rid of the gas asap. You need minerals for gates and the nexus anyway. If you fake a 4gate, you can keep him honest and slow down his teching, which would slow down his eventual 1base push anyway. You are already making him think that you are 4 gating because you have lots of chrono energy, 20 probes, zealot and stalker. What i meant is actually going to his ramp with 1s and 1z, throwing down a pylon and trying to bate a ff, maybe even snipe a unit or two. If you kill the gas i don't think you actually get to his ramp in time, even though it's quite map dependant.
oh yah, I usually poke with the zealot and the stalker but I only get so far in the map, don't wanna go all the way to their natural just to see a probe sneak into my main base and put a pylon down hehe.
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On October 21 2011 01:52 proerthantoss wrote:
whats a good counter to hellions/thors?
Thors are very bad against non-light air so voids and carriers will do very well.
Until you transition, chargelot/stalker with immortals will do fine. Don't make many sentries unless you want to try hallucinating immortals to bait 250 cannons.
High templars for feedback is also good.
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Hey guys,
I've been trying an FFE into 7 gate pressure against zergs, but the last few games I've played I've lost to a Roach/Ling all-in that seems to hit just before my warp gate research finishes. I'm fairly certain I'm doing the build correctly, but I'm not quite willing to say that this roach/ling is a build order counter to what I'm doing. Anyone else work through this problem?
Thanks!
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Nothing to do with the build. You just have to scout the all-in and make several cannons immediately. Also plug any holes in your wall with buildings.
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What midgame compositions for each match up would you recommend for a lower level player (Gold)? Also, can someone give a build order for a standard PvT 1 Gate Expand? Thanks.
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On October 22 2011 04:31 ThatGuy101 wrote:
What midgame compositions for each match up would you recommend for a lower level player (Gold)? Also, can someone give a build order for a standard PvT 1 Gate Expand? Thanks.
PvZ: Blink Stalker/Collosus/sentries left from the early game
PvT: Chargelot/Collosus/Blink Stalker/sentries left from the early game
PvP: Collosus/1-2 inmortals/gateway units
for PvT 1 Gate Expand I recommend This build, it is Huk's 20 nexus expand, it gets 3 gates, a nexus, and warp gate tech finishes at the same time it would for a 4 gate, its a really good build ^^ and you can put pressure on greedy opponents with it (or even win the game right away).
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whats a good counter is a terran goes hellion/thors?
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On October 22 2011 05:37 proerthantoss wrote:
whats a good counter is a terran goes hellion/thors?
someone a couple of posts above already answered your question (Make inmortals/Chargelot/(Blink)Stalkers and add void rays when you can afford them).
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Hi, i just switched toss from terran and i have some difficulties in PvP.
I go for 3 gates Robo but i ask u guys, whats the early units composition ? I always wonder stalker zelots or stalkers zelots sentries to prevent 4 gates push..
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On October 22 2011 20:16 Serge89 wrote:
Hi, i just switched toss from terran and i have some difficulties in PvP.
I go for 3 gates Robo but i ask u guys, whats the early units composition ? I always wonder stalker zelots or stalkers zelots sentries to prevent 4 gates push..
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You really want some sentries if you want to defend a 4gate on 3 gates. This way you can cut his army in half and make your units kill half his army, and then the other half. Normally 2-3 senrties is enough depending on the situation.
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Hi, this is a nooby protoss from Top8 Silver EU League, I just wondered how to counter Terran going for raven/tank/banshee if you open with 3gate robo. I know players from higher leagues open with nexus first as standard vs terran, but I think the best idea to improve is to learn a build per matchup and perform it always so you get used to it.
I also provide a replay, at first I saw the two gases and the starport and thought he was going to banshee harass, that's why I chronoboosted my observer and placed it over te mineral line, with the 3 stalkers all the game long, when I saw the replay I realized it was a waste of firepower as he didn't tech to cloak. He just put me out of the game with his first push. I'm having some trobule with mech terrans and I hope you can help me out. Any other advice related to the replay is welcome!
Thanks in advance!
replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/14543
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On October 22 2011 22:11 blitzjeeh wrote:Hi, this is a nooby protoss from Top8 Silver EU League, I just wondered how to counter Terran going for raven/tank/banshee if you open with 3gate robo. I know players from higher leagues open with nexus first as standard vs terran, but I think the best idea to improve is to learn a build per matchup and perform it always so you get used to it. I also provide a replay, at first I saw the two gases and the starport and thought he was going to banshee harass, that's why I chronoboosted my observer and placed it over te mineral line, with the 3 stalkers all the game long, when I saw the replay I realized it was a waste of firepower as he didn't tech to cloak. He just put me out of the game with his first push. I'm having some trobule with mech terrans and I hope you can help me out. Any other advice related to the replay is welcome! Thanks in advance! replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/14543
I watched the replay, Your problem was attacking his main, you were expanding, he was still on one base, the only thing you have to do is to keep making units and hold the push when he moves out and you win, instead, you lost a lot of units trying to break into his main, then you engaged very poorly when he was outside your nat so there was nothing you could of done, just don't try to break his main and keep working on your income and army instead.
Also, try to make more inmortals, he had very few marines but a lot of siege tanks so 3-4 inmortals would be very helpful.
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http://sc2rep.com/replays/(P)Moxen_vs_(P)Truth/14680
Can somebody help me with this rep?
Diamond level pvp I lost earlier today. I'm not really certain what I should've done better. Looking for any advice at all, whether it's specific or general.
The game is only 9 minutes so it's not very long.
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Hi, i just started playing protoss recently (silver zerg) as i feel that it would suit the way I like to play more, I also like blink micro and things like that.
What i'm wondering is,what are the currently standard builds for Protoss and what should I use.
PvP - 4gate obviously
PvT ???
PvZ???
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On October 23 2011 03:04 Lemonayd wrote:http://sc2rep.com/replays/(P)Moxen_vs_(P)Truth/14680Can somebody help me with this rep? Diamond level pvp I lost earlier today. I'm not really certain what I should've done better. Looking for any advice at all, whether it's specific or general. The game is only 9 minutes so it's not very long.
You execute your build very poorly, you should of lost to that first 4 gate push but he didn't even have a proxy pylon, you don't spend your chrono boost efficiently, you don't force field your opponent out of the ramp or anything like that, if you execute your build properly then you should be able to hold the 4 gate push easily and have both an income and a tech advantage, Also he got his expo finished way before you but you had already lost by then so it doesn't really help much to discuss that. You didn't really transition, you have to get either collosus or twilight tech, you can't beat mass gateway units with way less gateway units and a couple of inmortals, you have to beat them with better tech, composition and upgrades (IE collosus/stalker/zealot, Blink/inmortal, chargelot/archon, etc).
On October 23 2011 03:05 pStar wrote:
Hi, i just started playing protoss recently (silver zerg) as i feel that it would suit the way I like to play more, I also like blink micro and things like that.
What i'm wondering is,what are the currently standard builds for Protoss and what should I use.
PvP - 4gate obviously
PvT ???
PvZ???
Actually robo based builds (1gate robo, 2 gate robo, 3 gate robo, etc) and robo/blink are getting more popular than 4 gate in PvP thanks to the latest patch.
nevertheless, you can look up a couple of builds by using the search function or downloading replay packs from recent tournaments (IEM New york for example) so you should really try to do that in the future. Answering your question, in PvT 1 gate expand and 3 gate robo are the most common builds and in PvZ forge FE, 3 gate sentry expand and 1 gate expand are also very common.
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On October 23 2011 03:05 pStar wrote:
Hi, i just started playing protoss recently (silver zerg) as i feel that it would suit the way I like to play more, I also like blink micro and things like that.
What i'm wondering is,what are the currently standard builds for Protoss and what should I use.
PvP - 4gate obviously
PvT ???
PvZ???
Have a look at this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=269312
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EPT
