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The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 88
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pezzaperry
142 Posts
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pezzaperry
142 Posts
On October 19 2011 22:15 pezzaperry wrote: in my most recent game i experimented with a sentry warp prism drop vs zerg, i got some really nice ffs off and warped 3 zealots into his mineral line. This was looking good until his lings surrounded my ffs, and my sentries auto targetted lings and my zealots tried to gethrough the ffs to target lings rather than drones. How can I fix this? Should I target fire drones? I find this really hard to do. Thank you if you dump the sentries behind the mineral line and hold position and ff, you will target drones. i found this in video. | ||
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Darkness2k11
Chile313 Posts
On October 19 2011 14:01 DropTester wrote: Do you have some example PvZ replays, or reference to pro replays, to learn off? Just coming back after a period of inactivity and I feel like I'm behind and I don't really have a gameplan in mind? I don't really have replays of myself using collosus in PvZ anymore since I stopped using them in favor of blink Stalker/Inmortal/Templar, nevertheless you can go to sc2rep.com and download some reps there (IEM New York finished a couple days ago, lots of protoss replays there to learn from ^^, Idk if they have released the MLG replays yet). | ||
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Corrosive
Canada3741 Posts
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On October 20 2011 10:25 Corrosive wrote: What the hell do i do pvp now? i have decent macro and micro but i just havnt really re-learned it since the 4gate nerf. Its played in a completely different way and i was wondering if some people could give me some good openers + tips? thank you very much! There's nothing really standard now. I'd suggest you try one of the blink robo builds though. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=249638 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=249772 You should be just fine following one of these guides. | ||
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Quochobao
United States350 Posts
On October 20 2011 18:05 Latedi wrote: There's nothing really standard now. I'd suggest you try one of the blink robo builds though. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=249638 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=249772 You should be just fine following one of these guides. I think Monk's Robo Twilight is standard PvP... It is solid and has a game plan for anything your opponent does. Anyhow, my question is this: watching MLG Orlando Hero v. July, there is a game in which Hero uses Phoenixes to pick up drones, one after another, instead of a few at a time. Is there a micro trick (i.e. shift queue technique) to do this? I believe this is not his godly multitasking, because the Phoenixes pick up drones in a smooth sequence and for such a long time that I don't believe he spends that whole time babysitting the Phoenixes. | ||
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Xanatoss
Germany539 Posts
I came up with a Robo2Gate FE Build (#1) and compared it to a 2Gas1GateFE into Robo2Gate Build (#2) with nonstop probe production. The Reference Point for both builds is the 7:20 mark when #1 Expo finishes. Both builds are almost identical at this point in terms of ressources spent into structures/units. The only real difference besides the order of constructed structures: Build #2 has 36 Probes compared to 32 Probes with Build #1. This is on 2 Base oc. These 4 Probes (200+50 Minerals) manifest into a total economic lead of 550-700 Minerals (depending on 3rd and 4th Gas timing) assuming a continuing Probeproduction out of both Nexi until maximum Saturation at 11:40 (#1). The Question is (!) : How would you rate a Buildorder "deficit" of 250 Minerals (in the form of 4 Probes) @ 7:20 up to 550-700 Minerals @ 11:40 and the risk of beeing pretty vulnerable early on against various forms of aggression/all-in which you have a hard time to scout for exactly, compared to the benefit of geting almost perfect information about your opponent (fastest obs) and beeing completely safe against early aggression/all-ins (Robo+2Warpgates rdy @ ~5:45) | ||
Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
On October 21 2011 00:59 Xanatoss wrote: I was thinking a lot about safe vs greedy openers in PvT lately. I came up with a Robo2Gate FE Build (#1) and compared it to a 2Gas1GateFE into Robo2Gate Build (#2) with nonstop probe production. The Reference Point for both builds is the 7:20 mark when #1 Expo finishes. Both builds are almost identical at this point in terms of ressources spent into structures/units. The only real difference besides the order of constructed structures: Build #2 has 36 Probes compared to 32 Probes with Build #1. This is on 2 Base oc. These 4 Probes (200+50 Minerals) manifest into a total economic lead of 550-700 Minerals (depending on 3rd and 4th Gas timing) assuming a continuing Probeproduction out of both Nexi until maximum Saturation at 11:40 (#1). The Question is (!) : How would you rate a Buildorder "deficit" of 250 Minerals (in the form of 4 Probes) @ 7:20 up to 550-700 Minerals @ 11:40 and the risk of beeing pretty vulnerable early on against various forms of aggression/all-in which you have a hard time to scout for exactly, compared to the benefit of geting almost perfect information about your opponent (fastest obs) and beeing completely safe against early aggression/all-ins (Robo+2Warpgates rdy @ ~5:45) 2gate robo went out of fashion because it severly falls behind against gassless 1rax fe. If you can't get in his base and confirm he has taken his gas, you can't tell the difference between a tech build and an expansion build by poking his ramp in most scenarios (all you see is marines and most likey a bunker). Other than that, it's decent against 1rax marauder fe, or 2rax pressure i guess. Against tech i think 1gate fe is superior simply because he can't punish it right away anyway if he's teching to, say, banshees. Against tech based allins, 1gate fe is generally considered the better choice because you need a pretty big econ lead to hold them off, and 2gate robo doesn't provide that. The only other allin i can think of is 3rax, which is really kind of terrible overall; i think you can easily hold it off with 1gate fe if you scout his lack of expo and go into allin-defense mode (chrono 1-2 immortals, cut probes for a bit, chrono units out of 4-5 gates). | ||
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Xanatoss
Germany539 Posts
On October 21 2011 01:03 Teoita wrote: 2gate robo went out of fashion because it severly falls behind against gassless 1rax fe. If you can't get in his base and confirm he has taken his gas, you can't tell the difference between a tech build and an expansion build by poking his ramp in most scenarios (all you see is marines and most likey a bunker). Other than that, it's decent against 1rax marauder fe, or 2rax pressure i guess. Against tech i think 1gate fe is superior simply because he can't punish it right away anyway if he's teching to, say, banshees. Against tech based allins, 1gate fe is generally considered the better choice because you need a pretty big econ lead to hold them off, and 2gate robo doesn't provide that. The only other allin i can think of is 3rax, which is really kind of terrible overall; i think you can easily hold it off with 1gate fe if you scout his lack of expo and go into allin-defense mode (chrono 1-2 immortals, cut probes for a bit, chrono units out of 4-5 gates). I made a very specific question and was not looking for generic answers, thank you. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
On October 21 2011 01:13 Xanatoss wrote: I made a very specific question and was not looking for generic answers, thank you. Sorry if it wasn't specific enough. The specific answer imo is: depends on his opening. If it's really greedy or he's doing an allin, you are in trouble. If you can scout him, you are fine. | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On October 21 2011 00:59 Xanatoss wrote: I was thinking a lot about safe vs greedy openers in PvT lately. I came up with a Robo2Gate FE Build (#1) and compared it to a 2Gas1GateFE into Robo2Gate Build (#2) with nonstop probe production. The Reference Point for both builds is the 7:20 mark when #1 Expo finishes. Both builds are almost identical at this point in terms of ressources spent into structures/units. The only real difference besides the order of constructed structures: Build #2 has 36 Probes compared to 32 Probes with Build #1. This is on 2 Base oc. These 4 Probes (200+50 Minerals) manifest into a total economic lead of 550-700 Minerals (depending on 3rd and 4th Gas timing) assuming a continuing Probeproduction out of both Nexi until maximum Saturation at 11:40 (#1). The Question is (!) : How would you rate a Buildorder "deficit" of 250 Minerals (in the form of 4 Probes) @ 7:20 up to 550-700 Minerals @ 11:40 and the risk of beeing pretty vulnerable early on against various forms of aggression/all-in which you have a hard time to scout for exactly, compared to the benefit of geting almost perfect information about your opponent (fastest obs) and beeing completely safe against early aggression/all-ins (Robo+2Warpgates rdy @ ~5:45) I honestly think you'd be better off with an extremely fast Nexus than with that 2 Gate opening, unless you're close spawns with a Terran. | ||
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proerthantoss
United Kingdom16 Posts
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hammonjj
United States35 Posts
Thanks!!! | ||
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Darkness2k11
Chile313 Posts
On October 21 2011 01:59 hammonjj wrote: In PvP, what is the appropriate response to mass Collosus aside from making more Collosus, assuming there is one? Thanks!!! Well I've been going robo/blink and Pressuring with blink and warp prisms 'till I get 4 bases (usually vs 3 since he can't really expand as easily thx to collosus mobility), then with a superior economy and slightly better upgrades I flank his army from two sides when he moves out with my inmortal/archon/chargelot/blink stalker composition while making three stargates (so I can add voids or carriers and a mothership to my composition If the game didn't end right there) at home and expanding again, its important to have a pylon or a warp prism near the engagement location so I can warp-in reinforcements instantly (you will have lots of gates with this style in 4+ bases), it all depends on positioning and good micro, but thats how I have been doing it as a 1.5k masters player. It seems that most pros go collosus + gateway or collosus/archon/stalker/zealot though so do what you think works best for you (they might add a couple of inmortals as well, thanks to the latest buff to their range they fit better in big battles). | ||
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InRaika
Canada1 Post
Help? | ||
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xlava
United States676 Posts
On October 21 2011 10:49 InRaika wrote: Hey, I've been having a really hard time VS Zerg lately, I can't seem to beat Muta builds (Muta Harass!!!), ever, and the only time I ever seem to stand a chance is against a zerg that doesn't expand often. Help? A replay would help, but once you scout the mass lings/spines or the spire, immediately do the following: 1) Get blink asap, and pump stalkers. 2) Although it may seem counter intuitive, you need colossi to counter muta builds, because the supplement to muta is lings and sometimes roaches if they have the bases, and you can kill off all the muta, but lose to mass ling. Templar work too, but I think templar are too volatile in PvZ to 100% rely on them. 3) Cannon(s) in mineral lines. You can't be everywhere at once. 4) I would go dts eventually to regain map control and hopefully catch his mass expanding stage off guard. You can't let him get to 900 bases, because once that happens, he can lose all his muta and tech switch to mass infestor ultra brood and just roflroll you over. 5) Push your advantage. Muta ling builds rely heavily on counterattacks. If you can create a good sim city and defend with minimal units, you should be able to win every direct engagement easily up until the super late game. | ||
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Iamportal
United States184 Posts
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Lakona
Canada110 Posts
On October 21 2011 14:21 Iamportal wrote: Diamond toss here, I'm just wondering if someone can point me to a thread with a god 1 gate FE build order. I've been playing around with it a bit, but it would definitely help to see one, and the search function hasn't turned up any good threads There are of course a number of variations, but the way I personally feel is optimum (often used by Huk and Sase): 9 pylon, 12 gate, 14 gas, 15 pylon, 17 core, 18 gas (skip zealot) Core finishes -> chrono stalker + start WG (no chrono) -> 23 pylon Sentry immediately after stalker, stop all production temporarily @ 27 supply (assuming your scout doesn't die, otherwise it would obviously be 26) 27 nexus -> 2nd sentry -> 29 2 gateways -> 3rd sentry -> 31 robo -> resume probe production, 32 pylon The reason for cutting at 27 supply in particular is that it is the minimum 1 base saturation point - 16 workers on minerals + 3 on each gas (+ scouting probe + stalker + 1st sentry) = 27. Nexus should go down @ 5:00, robo down @ 6:00, and gateways + WG research + nexus should all finish simultaneously around 6:30. | ||
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-Celestial-
United Kingdom3867 Posts
On October 21 2011 13:19 xlava wrote: A replay would help, but once you scout the mass lings/spines or the spire, immediately do the following: 1) Get blink asap, and pump stalkers. 2) Although it may seem counter intuitive, you need colossi to counter muta builds, because the supplement to muta is lings and sometimes roaches if they have the bases, and you can kill off all the muta, but lose to mass ling. Templar work too, but I think templar are too volatile in PvZ to 100% rely on them. 3) Cannon(s) in mineral lines. You can't be everywhere at once. 4) I would go dts eventually to regain map control and hopefully catch his mass expanding stage off guard. You can't let him get to 900 bases, because once that happens, he can lose all his muta and tech switch to mass infestor ultra brood and just roflroll you over. 5) Push your advantage. Muta ling builds rely heavily on counterattacks. If you can create a good sim city and defend with minimal units, you should be able to win every direct engagement easily up until the super late game. To add to this, get Sentries. At least five or six sentries. Guardian Shield is a massive, massive force multiplier against Mutas because of how it absolutely shuts down their DPS. And armour upgrades are an brilliant choice as well. | ||
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Zarent
109 Posts
End result: he has 2 gasses and I can't get mine for a while, especially since I started a stalker before a zealot. What is the correct response to this? Pre 1.4, I could've just balls 4gated and killed him for being a greedy S.O.B. However, 2-3 sentries can basically indefinitely hold off a stalker based 4gate, so this doesn't seem to be as much of an option. What I did was went for a 4gate, showing his scouting probe this, and pushed out. Never cut probes though. Dropped a proxy pylon outside his main, and forced a few forcefields without losing anything. Took an early expo when I had him contained and also threw down a robo. I spotted him going for colossitech and he has much higher tech than me due to his stealing of my gas. I also, however, see him going for a much later expo than me, not gearing up for a timing attack. Do I do the normal PvX build and just expo again and just go immortal/something, do I throw down a much later colossiden and use my greater LATER gas income to throw up another robo and get eventually more colossi, or do I do some sort of blink stalker play? Thanks! | ||
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