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The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 82

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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 11 2011 03:07 GMT
#1621
On October 11 2011 11:57 SkyBlaze wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 11:34 xmikeyy17x wrote:
how do i deal with muta ling. i can't deal with god damn mutas. even if i get stalker blink, i lose to much probes/building from mutas and hurt my econ then he just harass me til death and mass muta me... and if i get too many stalkers to counter all his mutas, he'll have enough lings to kill my stalkers.....

i hate zerg. right now they are better than are other races.


I'll try to help you out but it will be very generalized due to no replay. If a replay is provide we can help you out a lot more than just giving out generalized info. here we go with generalized info:

Getting the blink stalkers was a good a idea but blink is only good for buying time for HT with storm. the way I deal with mutas is try to zone with cannons with as little as possible then get High templar achieves and while it's building get blink to buy time for storm research. while keeping the stalkers alive and getting HT with storm, with the rest of you resources you can place into zealots(if you got a plenty of minerals). you'll most likely behind but you can push and earn yourself a 3rd.



Armor upgrades. Stalkers are passable vs mutas early on, but get better the more upgraded they are. It gets to a point where mutas can't do damage. Also, take it slow and do not push out early. Zerg wants you to base trade, that is what this style is about. The more units you mass, the less he can deal with them. Slow tech to archons however you feel comfortable. I like DTs because they are a slow micro harass that frees me up to deal with the mutas/lings.

Basically turtle, get a good number of cannons and get the biggest army possible. Once you push out, he won't be able to take you in a straight up fight.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
SkyBlaze
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada191 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-11 03:16:28
October 11 2011 03:15 GMT
#1622
On October 11 2011 12:07 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 11:57 SkyBlaze wrote:
On October 11 2011 11:34 xmikeyy17x wrote:
how do i deal with muta ling. i can't deal with god damn mutas. even if i get stalker blink, i lose to much probes/building from mutas and hurt my econ then he just harass me til death and mass muta me... and if i get too many stalkers to counter all his mutas, he'll have enough lings to kill my stalkers.....

i hate zerg. right now they are better than are other races.


I'll try to help you out but it will be very generalized due to no replay. If a replay is provide we can help you out a lot more than just giving out generalized info. here we go with generalized info:

Getting the blink stalkers was a good a idea but blink is only good for buying time for HT with storm. the way I deal with mutas is try to zone with cannons with as little as possible then get High templar achieves and while it's building get blink to buy time for storm research. while keeping the stalkers alive and getting HT with storm, with the rest of you resources you can place into zealots(if you got a plenty of minerals). you'll most likely behind but you can push and earn yourself a 3rd.


+ Show Spoiler +

Armor upgrades. Stalkers are passable vs mutas early on, but get better the more upgraded they are. It gets to a point where mutas can't do damage. Also, take it slow and do not push out early. Zerg wants you to base trade, that is what this style is about. The more units you mass, the less he can deal with them. Slow tech to archons however you feel comfortable. I like DTs because they are a slow micro harass that frees me up to deal with the mutas/lings.

Basically turtle, get a good number of cannons and get the biggest army possible. Once you push out, he won't be able to take you in a straight up fight.


Ahh I completely forgot about the armor upgrades, good point out and i do agree with taking it slow. but I would like a replay from xmikeyy17x.
| (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ | ┻━┻ ︵╰(°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
theBALLS
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Singapore2935 Posts
October 11 2011 03:20 GMT
#1623
How do you deal with baneling rain?

My 200/200 army got destroyed. Composition about 6 collo, zealots, stalkers, some sentries.
If you lose the stick, you'll always have theBALLS.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 11 2011 03:28 GMT
#1624
On October 11 2011 12:20 theBALLS wrote:
How do you deal with baneling rain?

My 200/200 army got destroyed. Composition about 6 collo, zealots, stalkers, some sentries.


People are going to need a replay of that. Otherwise the advice is going to be "use stalkers to shoot overlord. Win."
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
theBALLS
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Singapore2935 Posts
October 11 2011 07:02 GMT
#1625
On October 11 2011 12:28 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 12:20 theBALLS wrote:
How do you deal with baneling rain?

My 200/200 army got destroyed. Composition about 6 collo, zealots, stalkers, some sentries.


People are going to need a replay of that. Otherwise the advice is going to be "use stalkers to shoot overlord. Win."

if only there was a way to see which overlords have been loaded up. like lights in a bunker.
If you lose the stick, you'll always have theBALLS.
rsvp
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States2266 Posts
October 11 2011 07:35 GMT
#1626
On October 11 2011 12:28 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 12:20 theBALLS wrote:
How do you deal with baneling rain?

My 200/200 army got destroyed. Composition about 6 collo, zealots, stalkers, some sentries.


People are going to need a replay of that. Otherwise the advice is going to be "use stalkers to shoot overlord. Win."


2 things:

1) Retreat back to a choke, forcefield it off so the zerg ground army can no longer keep moving forward. Now you can safely shoot overlords and the zerg has the choice of retreating the overlords and losing some, or dropping banelings without any other support. Repeat as necessary.

2) When the banelings actually start falling, spread out your army. No magic here, just work on your micro.
iamke55
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
United States2806 Posts
October 11 2011 08:19 GMT
#1627
Vs baneling bombs you need to hotkey your stalkers separately so that the rest of your army can retreat constantly.
During practice session, I discovered very good build against zerg. -Bisu[Shield]
NiNLicorice
Profile Joined July 2011
Sweden84 Posts
October 11 2011 08:32 GMT
#1628
I want to know if there is anything bad with double forge.
I always use double forge but rarely see anyone else do it.
in the end game I got fully upgraded army while they got 2-3 upgrades.
What are the benefits with not having dual forge?
NeWeNiyaLord
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Norway2474 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-11 08:45:04
October 11 2011 08:41 GMT
#1629
On October 11 2011 17:32 Licorices wrote:
I want to know if there is anything bad with double forge.
I always use double forge but rarely see anyone else do it.
in the end game I got fully upgraded army while they got 2-3 upgrades.
What are the benefits with not having dual forge?

Benefits? there are no benefits of NOT having dual forge, unless your on few bases and could need the resources for units instead. If a midgame push comes, your opponent might have a better timing, but if your upgrades finish before that and you have sufficient units its benefitial. Other then that, watch out for pushes.
This is where we begin. Show your true self, Battosai.
iamke55
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
United States2806 Posts
October 11 2011 08:46 GMT
#1630
On October 11 2011 17:32 Licorices wrote:
I want to know if there is anything bad with double forge.
I always use double forge but rarely see anyone else do it.
in the end game I got fully upgraded army while they got 2-3 upgrades.
What are the benefits with not having dual forge?

Main benefit is you can take earlier 3rd base if your forge count is lower than 2.
During practice session, I discovered very good build against zerg. -Bisu[Shield]
Brainiak
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany91 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-11 14:50:12
October 11 2011 14:50 GMT
#1631
dia toss looking to get into masters soon,
My problem zone is now pvt :
I have favored the chargelot+archon style but recently master terrans just go for lower upgrades and outmacro me ( constant scv production and mules > chronoboost, because for archon chargelot i need to chrono other buildings a lot ) then they have this huge ball and my zealots dont get much surface area. Ive seen from sase this collosus fast third thing, but when i try it (against master terrans) they just build 4 medivacs and do a multiprondeg attack with 2 2 medivac drops at the natural and main and go for the third with the rest and cacel, ive experienced that in low numbers bio units actually snipe collossus really fast as there is no real gateway army to speak of. My question is: what is your standart unit composition in pvt and how to you get there without dying to the various all ins, pressure builds and macro cheeses a terran can trow at you ?
Replay:
http://drop.sc/43215
In this replay I go for chargelot archon. Look at the spending tab please
Apparently I deleted the other rep when i went collossus at got smashed by drops, sry
Thanks for your help
“History is written by the victors.” Winston Churchill
Amornthep
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Singapore2605 Posts
October 11 2011 15:07 GMT
#1632
Against baneling drops, forcefield away his ground army and retreat all your army except your stalkers which you use to kite and target down the OVs.
SupplyBlockedTV
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Belgium313 Posts
October 11 2011 15:57 GMT
#1633
Just a random question about PvP .. defeated a high diamond player (platinum myself), twice in a row (after he called me a bad player and wanted a RE).

First time: He stole my gas, so i switched into Korean 4gate.
Second time: He stole my gas, so i switched into a fast warp prism, 8 zealot drop in his eco.

But whenever someone gas steals me in PvP, i know my opponent will have the advantage in the longer game. But i wonder, what would be the best response to a gas steal in PvP without what he called "cheesing" and not being "worthy of his precious time"?
PEW PEW PEW
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12248 Posts
October 11 2011 16:02 GMT
#1634
On October 12 2011 00:57 Xenocide_EU wrote:
Just a random question about PvP .. defeated a high diamond player (platinum myself), twice in a row (after he called me a bad player and wanted a RE).

First time: He stole my gas, so i switched into Korean 4gate.
Second time: He stole my gas, so i switched into a fast warp prism, 8 zealot drop in his eco.

But whenever someone gas steals me in PvP, i know my opponent will have the advantage in the longer game. But i wonder, what would be the best response to a gas steal in PvP without what he called "cheesing" and not being "worthy of his precious time"?


I am not 100% sure after this patch, but you used to be able to fake a 4gate to force him to slow tech, while killing off the gas and teching yourself. Essentially you both would go for some sort of defensive 3gate opening.
In this patch you might try an fe of some kind if you are sure he isn't 4gating and you are confortable playing risky (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=259038), or just kill the gas, tech a bit slower and go on with a normal game.
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
October 11 2011 17:56 GMT
#1635
On October 12 2011 00:57 Xenocide_EU wrote:
Just a random question about PvP .. defeated a high diamond player (platinum myself), twice in a row (after he called me a bad player and wanted a RE).

First time: He stole my gas, so i switched into Korean 4gate.
Second time: He stole my gas, so i switched into a fast warp prism, 8 zealot drop in his eco.

But whenever someone gas steals me in PvP, i know my opponent will have the advantage in the longer game. But i wonder, what would be the best response to a gas steal in PvP without what he called "cheesing" and not being "worthy of his precious time"?


When is he stealing your gas?
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
SkyBlaze
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada191 Posts
October 11 2011 18:15 GMT
#1636
On October 12 2011 00:57 Xenocide_EU wrote:
Just a random question about PvP .. defeated a high diamond player (platinum myself), twice in a row (after he called me a bad player and wanted a RE).

First time: He stole my gas, so i switched into Korean 4gate.
Second time: He stole my gas, so i switched into a fast warp prism, 8 zealot drop in his eco.

But whenever someone gas steals me in PvP, i know my opponent will have the advantage in the longer game. But i wonder, what would be the best response to a gas steal in PvP without what he called "cheesing" and not being "worthy of his precious time"?


You can go 1 gas 2gate robo with only zealots and immortals .To hold off any rush than or while waiting for his atk, take back your gas. then proceed into a normal pvp.
| (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ | ┻━┻ ︵╰(°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
October 11 2011 18:21 GMT
#1637
On October 11 2011 17:32 Licorices wrote:
I want to know if there is anything bad with double forge.
I always use double forge but rarely see anyone else do it.
in the end game I got fully upgraded army while they got 2-3 upgrades.
What are the benefits with not having dual forge?


If you go double forge, you're weak to some timing attack. Dropping 2 forges and chrono'ing the shit out of them means you're preparing for a late game.

I go double forge myself with Zealot/Archon vs Terran. I honestly don't see double forge too much against Zerg. The important part of PvZ upgrades is getting the weapon upgrade. Armor is definitely secondary pending the Z's army comp.
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
October 11 2011 18:42 GMT
#1638
On October 11 2011 23:50 Brainiak wrote:
dia toss looking to get into masters soon,
My problem zone is now pvt :
I have favored the chargelot+archon style but recently master terrans just go for lower upgrades and outmacro me ( constant scv production and mules > chronoboost, because for archon chargelot i need to chrono other buildings a lot ) then they have this huge ball and my zealots dont get much surface area. Ive seen from sase this collosus fast third thing, but when i try it (against master terrans) they just build 4 medivacs and do a multiprondeg attack with 2 2 medivac drops at the natural and main and go for the third with the rest and cacel, ive experienced that in low numbers bio units actually snipe collossus really fast as there is no real gateway army to speak of. My question is: what is your standart unit composition in pvt and how to you get there without dying to the various all ins, pressure builds and macro cheeses a terran can trow at you ?
Replay:
http://drop.sc/43215
In this replay I go for chargelot archon. Look at the spending tab please
Apparently I deleted the other rep when i went collossus at got smashed by drops, sry
Thanks for your help


I checked the replay.

You moved out WAY too early. What I feel is a better choice is dropping a second forge and getting armor+weapons at the same time. Double forge will let Terran outmacro you, but the idea is that you will be far ahead of him in upgrades that you should at least destroy a significant part of his army if not outright win the engagement.

Keep in mind that with double forge, your army will definitely more powerful when maxed vs a Terran maxed.
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
Brainiak
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany91 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-11 18:49:03
October 11 2011 18:46 GMT
#1639
On October 12 2011 03:42 Cloud9157 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 23:50 Brainiak wrote:
dia toss looking to get into masters soon,
My problem zone is now pvt :
I have favored the chargelot+archon style but recently master terrans just go for lower upgrades and outmacro me ( constant scv production and mules > chronoboost, because for archon chargelot i need to chrono other buildings a lot ) then they have this huge ball and my zealots dont get much surface area. Ive seen from sase this collosus fast third thing, but when i try it (against master terrans) they just build 4 medivacs and do a multiprondeg attack with 2 2 medivac drops at the natural and main and go for the third with the rest and cacel, ive experienced that in low numbers bio units actually snipe collossus really fast as there is no real gateway army to speak of. My question is: what is your standart unit composition in pvt and how to you get there without dying to the various all ins, pressure builds and macro cheeses a terran can trow at you ?
Replay:
http://drop.sc/43215
In this replay I go for chargelot archon. Look at the spending tab please
Apparently I deleted the other rep when i went collossus at got smashed by drops, sry
Thanks for your help


I checked the replay.

You moved out WAY too early. What I feel is a better choice is dropping a second forge and getting armor+weapons at the same time. Double forge will let Terran outmacro you, but the idea is that you will be far ahead of him in upgrades that you should at least destroy a significant part of his army if not outright win the engagement.

Keep in mind that with double forge, your army will definitely more powerful when maxed vs a Terran maxed.

Thanks for checking the replay
I dont quite agree with you suggesting double forge. Maybe its just me but everytime i try double forge terran just goes for no upgrades and kills me with a huge 0/0 or 1/0 ball before my 2/2 upgrades kick in. Do you know something that might keep me alive?
Moreover i was just shocked how he outmacroed me, am I doing something wrong with my macro?
“History is written by the victors.” Winston Churchill
Zefa
Profile Joined May 2010
United States297 Posts
October 11 2011 18:51 GMT
#1640
In a pvp both players end up taking an expansion off robo play and are going collosus. They have roughly 2 collosus each. Given this information, what strategy or transition should a player go into that counters this or should he just try to just out collosus the other guy?
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