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Artosis posted on scdojo.com about AnyPro's 7 gate timing attack.
One of my favorite builds in PvZ. Another build I’ll try to make a video on when I have time!
Start off with the standard rules of a forge fast expansion, and then:
16 Nexus
16 Forge, Probe, Pylon
20 Cannon (2 if its a tricky map for forge expand)
23 Gateway, gas, gas
gas, core
Warpgate, Sentry
39 +1 attack upgrade
boosts used only on Probes and a couple on Warpgate
4th gas
Warpgate upgrade half done => add 6 gates
Start chrono boosting +1 attack and immediately start +1 armor, which you continue to chrono boost
Robo
your army starts moving out as you get your first huge warpgate round. you should have about 9 sentries, no more than that, perhaps some zealots based upon how many lings you see, and then lots of stalkers. your probe count should be right around 50, with a low of 48. if you have 60, your attack is probably too slow to do any damage.
GLHF!
This seems like a ~easy build to pull off for a platinum player like myself, but I can't make sense of the beginning. He says follow the "standard rules of forge fast expansion", but then says 16 nexus, 16 forge, probe, pylon, and only then building a cannon. This loses to a few roaches IME, cause you just don't have enough stuff to stop anything. I guess it's map dependant, but on most of the maps on the ladder, I can't imagine doing anything outside 13 forge, 14 cannon, then nexus-gate. Someone help me out here 
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On October 07 2011 02:40 Leafs wrote:Artosis posted on scdojo.com about AnyPro's 7 gate timing attack. Show nested quote +One of my favorite builds in PvZ. Another build I’ll try to make a video on when I have time!
Start off with the standard rules of a forge fast expansion, and then:
16 Nexus
16 Forge, Probe, Pylon
20 Cannon (2 if its a tricky map for forge expand)
23 Gateway, gas, gas
gas, core
Warpgate, Sentry
39 +1 attack upgrade
boosts used only on Probes and a couple on Warpgate
4th gas
Warpgate upgrade half done => add 6 gates
Start chrono boosting +1 attack and immediately start +1 armor, which you continue to chrono boost
Robo
your army starts moving out as you get your first huge warpgate round. you should have about 9 sentries, no more than that, perhaps some zealots based upon how many lings you see, and then lots of stalkers. your probe count should be right around 50, with a low of 48. if you have 60, your attack is probably too slow to do any damage.
GLHF! This seems like a ~easy build to pull off for a platinum player like myself, but I can't make sense of the beginning. He says follow the "standard rules of forge fast expansion", but then says 16 nexus, 16 forge, probe, pylon, and only then building a cannon. This loses to a few roaches IME, cause you just don't have enough stuff to stop anything. I guess it's map dependant, but on most of the maps on the ladder, I can't imagine doing anything outside 13 forge, 14 cannon, then nexus-gate. Someone help me out here
Standard rules of FFE are things like nexus and forge timing. For example a general rule of thumb a lot of people use is to throw down your forge shortly after seeing their pool go down, and start your first cannon as their pool pop. So if they went 15 hatch you can go 15 (or 16 in this case I guess) safely, but if they went like 11 pool then you would throw down a 12 or 13 forge.
As for roach all-ins it seems like the build continually pumps sentries out of the initial gate, which should make holding roach pushes easy if there is a choke at your natural.
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Tried to take a fast 3rd with a 5gate robo after a FFE. I mean it is apparent that I suck at engaging roach balls but this is just standard PVZ for me these days... So frustrating. Really looking for some help
http://drop.sc/41215
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On October 07 2011 04:55 danib0y wrote:Tried to take a fast 3rd with a 5gate robo after a FFE. I mean it is apparent that I suck at engaging roach balls but this is just standard PVZ for me these days... So frustrating. Really looking for some help http://drop.sc/41215
The expand was pretty good but you didn't scout a lot and had no idea what zerg was doing. I think you need more immortals in this scenare and maybe even another robo after the third if you see him mass pure roaches. You also need better forcefield, for example you can take control of the xel naga tower near your base with probes or zealots to scout where zerg is going, then engage in one of the chokes and forcefield him in half. The forcefields you used only kept half his army away for a couple of seconds until they had ran around it.
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On October 07 2011 05:05 Latedi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 04:55 danib0y wrote:Tried to take a fast 3rd with a 5gate robo after a FFE. I mean it is apparent that I suck at engaging roach balls but this is just standard PVZ for me these days... So frustrating. Really looking for some help http://drop.sc/41215 The expand was pretty good but you didn't scout a lot and had no idea what zerg was doing. I think you need more immortals in this scenare and maybe even another robo after the third if you see him mass pure roaches. You also need better forcefield, for example you can take control of the xel naga tower near your base with probes or zealots to scout where zerg is going, then engage in one of the chokes and forcefield him in half. The forcefields you used only kept half his army away for a couple of seconds until they had ran around it.
Hmm ok so as far as scouting goes I should be more active with my observer or go for hallucination or sneak in more probes? I was aware that he was massing roaches, so yeah getting another robo and throwing in some immortals would habe been good I guess
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On October 07 2011 05:13 danib0y wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 05:05 Latedi wrote:On October 07 2011 04:55 danib0y wrote:Tried to take a fast 3rd with a 5gate robo after a FFE. I mean it is apparent that I suck at engaging roach balls but this is just standard PVZ for me these days... So frustrating. Really looking for some help http://drop.sc/41215 The expand was pretty good but you didn't scout a lot and had no idea what zerg was doing. I think you need more immortals in this scenare and maybe even another robo after the third if you see him mass pure roaches. You also need better forcefield, for example you can take control of the xel naga tower near your base with probes or zealots to scout where zerg is going, then engage in one of the chokes and forcefield him in half. The forcefields you used only kept half his army away for a couple of seconds until they had ran around it. Hmm ok so as far as scouting goes I should be more active with my observer or go for hallucination or sneak in more probes? I was aware that he was massing roaches, so yeah getting another robo and throwing in some immortals would habe been good I guess
Yeah, scouting and/or map awareness, more immortals before the colossus at least and then engaging at a better spot. If you use observers and xel naga towers to spot his movement this will help with the engagement.
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Just played a pvt on ladder and was caught off guard with hellion drops on one base.
Is it correct to tech to robo immediately if i scout only marines at the front and a rax w/ no tech lab?
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Two problems as protoss:
1. I find expanding to non-natural expansions scary and difficult as protoss don't have planetaries or queens or spine crawlers, only cannons, which are apparently really situational. I do not know how to prevent an opponent muscling into my expansion all at once and sacking it in less than 5 seconds.
2. I find macroing in battle pretty hard. Can someone give me some advice on gearing my mind to do this. Since protoss is so micro oriented, going off the battle scene to warp in units, I find very difficult.
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On October 07 2011 09:38 Lemonayd wrote:
Just played a pvt on ladder and was caught off guard with hellion drops on one base.
Is it correct to tech to robo immediately if i scout only marines at the front and a rax w/ no tech lab?
Assuming no 2 rax, (evident with early maraders + rax with no tech lab), go for a 1-gate-robo. Even if they do 2-rax, it's possible to defend with 1-gate-robo. Early robos are amazing, you can get a fast obs AND immortal. What build do you usually open vs T with?
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On October 07 2011 09:52 (kimi)YaSu wrote:
Two problems as protoss:
1. I find expanding to non-natural expansions scary and difficult as protoss don't have planetaries or queens or spine crawlers, only cannons, which are apparently really situational. I do not know how to prevent an opponent muscling into my expansion all at once and sacking it in less than 5 seconds.
2. I find macroing in battle pretty hard. Can someone give me some advice on gearing my mind to do this. Since protoss is so micro oriented, going off the battle scene to warp in units, I find very difficult.
I find it a little harder to expand vs Terran than Zerg, becuase small bio groups with stim can snipe my nexus SO fast. You should have 3-4 cannons per expand, with 2-3 pylons. Warping in emergency zealots can help out, depending on the unit composition. However, you shouldn't be expanding until you feel safe anyway. If you are in your natural while taking an expand, you're asking for it to get sniped. You should have map control or at least know where the opponent's army is before you expand. Generally speaking if they try to snipe your third, you can react (not necessarily in time to save your third) and FF and kill their army, then either re-expand, or go counter.
Micro... I find it a TON easier if you bring a probe or two with every push and set up pylons near your army or your desired engagement location, allowing you to move to a pylon to warp in faster, as well as micro. Try this.
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On October 07 2011 09:52 (kimi)YaSu wrote:
Two problems as protoss:
1. I find expanding to non-natural expansions scary and difficult as protoss don't have planetaries or queens or spine crawlers, only cannons, which are apparently really situational. I do not know how to prevent an opponent muscling into my expansion all at once and sacking it in less than 5 seconds.
2. I find macroing in battle pretty hard. Can someone give me some advice on gearing my mind to do this. Since protoss is so micro oriented, going off the battle scene to warp in units, I find very difficult.
Just work it into your microing cycle. If your current cycle is "guardian shield, attack move, force fields, then focus down vikings", make it "guardian shield, attack move, force fields, focus down vikings, warp in units and hotkey them" instead.
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Watching a replay of HasuObs vs a Terran (forgot who), it was the typical scouting problem of the terran walling off. HasuObs did not see any of the terran's main base other than the usual two supply depots and a barracks. The only pieces of information that I gathered he had was:
1. The terran does not have any known expansion (in the natural that is)
2. The terran harrassed with cloaked banshees
From that HasuObs almost deduced immediately the terran's tank marine build and countered with immortals, stalkers and sentries. How did he make that decision. Is there something about the two pieces of intel above that boils down to tank marine? Remember, his sight the whole game was black on the terran base.
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On October 07 2011 12:06 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 09:52 (kimi)YaSu wrote:
Two problems as protoss:
1. I find expanding to non-natural expansions scary and difficult as protoss don't have planetaries or queens or spine crawlers, only cannons, which are apparently really situational. I do not know how to prevent an opponent muscling into my expansion all at once and sacking it in less than 5 seconds.
2. I find macroing in battle pretty hard. Can someone give me some advice on gearing my mind to do this. Since protoss is so micro oriented, going off the battle scene to warp in units, I find very difficult. I find it a little harder to expand vs Terran than Zerg, becuase small bio groups with stim can snipe my nexus SO fast. You should have 3-4 cannons per expand, with 2-3 pylons. Warping in emergency zealots can help out, depending on the unit composition. However, you shouldn't be expanding until you feel safe anyway. If you are in your natural while taking an expand, you're asking for it to get sniped. You should have map control or at least know where the opponent's army is before you expand. Generally speaking if they try to snipe your third, you can react (not necessarily in time to save your third) and FF and kill their army, then either re-expand, or go counter. Micro... I find it a TON easier if you bring a probe or two with every push and set up pylons near your army or your desired engagement location, allowing you to move to a pylon to warp in faster, as well as micro. Try this.
You can't really make this many cannons against terran without sacrificing army supply, at least this early in the game. I believe it's better if you take map control and spot drops with observers or xel naga towers, then snipe them with stalkers or high templars. Late game you can afford the cannons and sometimes even leave a templar to feedback and storm medivacs.
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On October 07 2011 15:56 (kimi)YaSu wrote:
Watching a replay of HasuObs vs a Terran (forgot who), it was the typical scouting problem of the terran walling off. HasuObs did not see any of the terran's main base other than the usual two supply depots and a barracks. The only pieces of information that I gathered he had was:
1. The terran does not have any known expansion (in the natural that is)
2. The terran harrassed with cloaked banshees
From that HasuObs almost deduced immediately the terran's tank marine build and countered with immortals, stalkers and sentries. How did he make that decision. Is there something about the two pieces of intel above that boils down to tank marine? Remember, his sight the whole game was black on the terran base.
Marine tank banshee is very strong. You have to start your counter strategy as soon as possible. Banshees are usually indicators of this as they can harass before joining up with the marine tank army. Also the 1-1-1 doesn't expand often, it's often an all in.
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On October 07 2011 15:56 (kimi)YaSu wrote:
Watching a replay of HasuObs vs a Terran (forgot who), it was the typical scouting problem of the terran walling off. HasuObs did not see any of the terran's main base other than the usual two supply depots and a barracks. The only pieces of information that I gathered he had was:
1. The terran does not have any known expansion (in the natural that is)
2. The terran harrassed with cloaked banshees
From that HasuObs almost deduced immediately the terran's tank marine build and countered with immortals, stalkers and sentries. How did he make that decision. Is there something about the two pieces of intel above that boils down to tank marine? Remember, his sight the whole game was black on the terran base.
I don't know which replay you're talking about but what tipped him off was the wall-off. If Terran is going for an aggressive build, he builds a second barracks on 16 and does not have enough minerals to make his second supply depot for the wall-off. This narrows down the Terran's builds to either fast expo or factory followed by starport, and you can generally play greedy vs both of those.
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On October 07 2011 17:17 Latedi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 12:06 mizU wrote:On October 07 2011 09:52 (kimi)YaSu wrote:
Two problems as protoss:
1. I find expanding to non-natural expansions scary and difficult as protoss don't have planetaries or queens or spine crawlers, only cannons, which are apparently really situational. I do not know how to prevent an opponent muscling into my expansion all at once and sacking it in less than 5 seconds.
2. I find macroing in battle pretty hard. Can someone give me some advice on gearing my mind to do this. Since protoss is so micro oriented, going off the battle scene to warp in units, I find very difficult. I find it a little harder to expand vs Terran than Zerg, becuase small bio groups with stim can snipe my nexus SO fast. You should have 3-4 cannons per expand, with 2-3 pylons. Warping in emergency zealots can help out, depending on the unit composition. However, you shouldn't be expanding until you feel safe anyway. If you are in your natural while taking an expand, you're asking for it to get sniped. You should have map control or at least know where the opponent's army is before you expand. Generally speaking if they try to snipe your third, you can react (not necessarily in time to save your third) and FF and kill their army, then either re-expand, or go counter. Micro... I find it a TON easier if you bring a probe or two with every push and set up pylons near your army or your desired engagement location, allowing you to move to a pylon to warp in faster, as well as micro. Try this. You can't really make this many cannons against terran without sacrificing army supply, at least this early in the game. I believe it's better if you take map control and spot drops with observers or xel naga towers, then snipe them with stalkers or high templars. Late game you can afford the cannons and sometimes even leave a templar to feedback and storm medivacs.
Third base in PvT is not early game...
You need cannons to prevent drops and nexus snipes.
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On October 07 2011 18:13 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 17:17 Latedi wrote:On October 07 2011 12:06 mizU wrote:On October 07 2011 09:52 (kimi)YaSu wrote:
Two problems as protoss:
1. I find expanding to non-natural expansions scary and difficult as protoss don't have planetaries or queens or spine crawlers, only cannons, which are apparently really situational. I do not know how to prevent an opponent muscling into my expansion all at once and sacking it in less than 5 seconds.
2. I find macroing in battle pretty hard. Can someone give me some advice on gearing my mind to do this. Since protoss is so micro oriented, going off the battle scene to warp in units, I find very difficult. I find it a little harder to expand vs Terran than Zerg, becuase small bio groups with stim can snipe my nexus SO fast. You should have 3-4 cannons per expand, with 2-3 pylons. Warping in emergency zealots can help out, depending on the unit composition. However, you shouldn't be expanding until you feel safe anyway. If you are in your natural while taking an expand, you're asking for it to get sniped. You should have map control or at least know where the opponent's army is before you expand. Generally speaking if they try to snipe your third, you can react (not necessarily in time to save your third) and FF and kill their army, then either re-expand, or go counter. Micro... I find it a TON easier if you bring a probe or two with every push and set up pylons near your army or your desired engagement location, allowing you to move to a pylon to warp in faster, as well as micro. Try this. You can't really make this many cannons against terran without sacrificing army supply, at least this early in the game. I believe it's better if you take map control and spot drops with observers or xel naga towers, then snipe them with stalkers or high templars. Late game you can afford the cannons and sometimes even leave a templar to feedback and storm medivacs. Third base in PvT is not early game... You need cannons to prevent drops and nexus snipes.
No but I'd say it's mid game. You really have to sacrifcice something to make that amount of cannons. This money is better spent on gateways and zealots from my point of view.
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On October 07 2011 18:21 Latedi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2011 18:13 mizU wrote:On October 07 2011 17:17 Latedi wrote:On October 07 2011 12:06 mizU wrote:On October 07 2011 09:52 (kimi)YaSu wrote:
Two problems as protoss:
1. I find expanding to non-natural expansions scary and difficult as protoss don't have planetaries or queens or spine crawlers, only cannons, which are apparently really situational. I do not know how to prevent an opponent muscling into my expansion all at once and sacking it in less than 5 seconds.
2. I find macroing in battle pretty hard. Can someone give me some advice on gearing my mind to do this. Since protoss is so micro oriented, going off the battle scene to warp in units, I find very difficult. I find it a little harder to expand vs Terran than Zerg, becuase small bio groups with stim can snipe my nexus SO fast. You should have 3-4 cannons per expand, with 2-3 pylons. Warping in emergency zealots can help out, depending on the unit composition. However, you shouldn't be expanding until you feel safe anyway. If you are in your natural while taking an expand, you're asking for it to get sniped. You should have map control or at least know where the opponent's army is before you expand. Generally speaking if they try to snipe your third, you can react (not necessarily in time to save your third) and FF and kill their army, then either re-expand, or go counter. Micro... I find it a TON easier if you bring a probe or two with every push and set up pylons near your army or your desired engagement location, allowing you to move to a pylon to warp in faster, as well as micro. Try this. You can't really make this many cannons against terran without sacrificing army supply, at least this early in the game. I believe it's better if you take map control and spot drops with observers or xel naga towers, then snipe them with stalkers or high templars. Late game you can afford the cannons and sometimes even leave a templar to feedback and storm medivacs. Third base in PvT is not early game... You need cannons to prevent drops and nexus snipes. No but I'd say it's mid game. You really have to sacrifcice something to make that amount of cannons. This money is better spent on gateways and zealots from my point of view.
Seems like a way to invite drops into your bases to me.
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Just leave stalkers in your main base as long as you're not pressuring him. Make sure you have control of towers and observers to spot his army and drops so you will be ready. Once you reach 3rd base, you can put down 2-3 cannons per base to defend drops or leave a HT and some zealots per base.
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Hey, I was wondering if someone could give me some tips on defending a 2rax + some scvs (like 6-8) with bunkers pressure in pvt (the standard 1marine->reactor->2 marines at a time and 2nd rax before next supply debot with techlab and conc shells into cc) if you opened 1gate/1gas fe. I've tried different unit ratios, cb warpgates or more the units etc. Recently I even asked Axslav on his live-stream about this and he said you should mainly get stalkers (some zealots, no sentries) with this (i.e. if you opened 1gate/1gas fe) and cb units and no warpgate tech, if needed pull some probes and help to defend (try to mineral walk and then surround). I know that some people think 3gate/2gas expo is the way to go if you see this, however, Axlsav said this opening is very viable against it, just the 1gate/2gas fe has problems vs this push.
However, most of the time I lose quite some probes to this push (way more than the terran). Most of the time I know for sure when 2 rax is coming (often times i sucide my probe since you usually can get past his 1st marine if he doesn't stutter micro it perfectly to prevent scouting) and feel like getting such a delayed gas and gates on bigger maps should not be necessary. Any tips on unit ratio + engagement will help me a lot. Thx. (masters level protoss on eu)
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EPT
