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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. |
On October 05 2011 20:13 iamnotcreativeatall wrote:
Hi everyone!
So since this is pretty much my first post please dont go to harsh on me^^
Ok i have big problems in the PvZ matchup when my opponents is going for mutalisks. The problem about this is that i get constantly harassed and that i can hardly get a third up and almost never a fourth. And in my eyes there is no unit in the whole protoss arsenal who can do anything aiganst mutalisks. Here are a few exemples:
Archons: They are way to slow and fat so that they usually cant get into your main if you walled off with just 1 tile in between. They are pretty useless to defend.
High templar: Mutalisk fly fast and storm does not really hit them. its just easily dodged and aigan templar are totally slow.
Blinkstalker: not only do large number of Mutalisks easily take out Mutalisks, aigan they are to slow to catch them. Blinkstalkers do work if you are on 2 base but not longer.
Phenix: You wont ever be abel to get up enough phenix in time, even with 2 stargates. Also it leaves you very vulnerabel to sudden techswitches of the zerg since they are completly useless vs anything but mutalisks.
Even if I somehow manage to get up a decent army and just push the zerg he has about 20 spinecrawler and baserace is definetly not an option. And i also cant force him to engage me and no point of the game he needs to fight my army ONCE.
Get cannons and blink stalkers, tech HTs/archons and take a third. Don't forget to get upgrades, both attack and defense upgrades are good but since mutas die so fast to archons/storms, get attack imo. There are also other options such as 2stargate phoenix or +1 6gate all in but those are a bit more risky.
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On October 05 2011 11:36 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 07:34 TheGreenMachine wrote:
In PvZ how can you wall so that any unit can come out?
I do the gate+cyber at the front with a building moved an inch back on 1 side so theres room for 1 zealot. Zealots, sentry and stalkers can fit through it but archons get stuck mid-lategame.
Is there a wall that blocks lings with just 1 zealot but also fits an archon through? Archons are bigger than zealot/stalker. You have to brink your HTs down the ramp, or through your wall *BEFORE* you morph them.
Archons can fit through the gateway/cyber (the one where they're close together) wall.
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i seriously cannot win a pvp, im silver, before the patch i was winning practically every game (no matter what the match up) now i just cannot win a pvp no matter what i try, since the majority or silver leaguers seem to be protoss the promotion to gold i was so close to seems to have slipped away, anyone got a good pvp build or some tips i could use?
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On October 05 2011 22:28 proerthantoss wrote:
i seriously cannot win a pvp, im silver, before the patch i was winning practically every game (no matter what the match up) now i just cannot win a pvp no matter what i try, since the majority or silver leaguers seem to be protoss the promotion to gold i was so close to seems to have slipped away, anyone got a good pvp build or some tips i could use?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=256711
All good builds to use.
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I was about to test it but I thought I'd ask the experts here first..
My go to builds for PvT are 3 gate expo, 1 gate robo FE, and 1 gate FE. What is the econ difference of the 3 going into the midgame? Specifically, when I scout 2 rax with concussive I tend to go 3 gate expo to stay safe but depending on how well the 2 rax is executed I may not get the expo down until 7-7:30 (if I need the second warp in to drive them off).
If my opponent drops down the expo when he moves out I may be 2 min behind with my expo timing and I'm really feeling it midgame. The delayed expo delays my collosus tech and by extension delays the third since I like to have the second colli before dropping it down.
So to rephrase, how much more stuff (food, units, collosi) would I have in the midgame (13-15min) with a 3 gate vs. a 1 gate robo vs. 1 gate FE? Or alternately, how much is the 3 gate expand hurting my econ? When I scout a gasless 1 rax or 1/1/1 I always 1 gate FE and it FEELS like I have much more stuff.
Thanks so much for your help! This thread is really an asset to the community.
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On October 06 2011 04:11 morp wrote:
I was about to test it but I thought I'd ask the experts here first..
My go to builds for PvT are 3 gate expo, 1 gate robo FE, and 1 gate FE. What is the econ difference of the 3 going into the midgame? Specifically, when I scout 2 rax with concussive I tend to go 3 gate expo to stay safe but depending on how well the 2 rax is executed I may not get the expo down until 7-7:30 (if I need the second warp in to drive them off).
If my opponent drops down the expo when he moves out I may be 2 min behind with my expo timing and I'm really feeling it midgame. The delayed expo delays my collosus tech and by extension delays the third since I like to have the second colli before dropping it down.
So to rephrase, how much more stuff (food, units, collosi) would I have in the midgame (13-15min) with a 3 gate vs. a 1 gate robo vs. 1 gate FE? Or alternately, how much is the 3 gate expand hurting my econ? When I scout a gasless 1 rax or 1/1/1 I always 1 gate FE and it FEELS like I have much more stuff.
Thanks so much for your help! This thread is really an asset to the community.
3 Gate Expo = slower nexus; 1 gate robo nexus = slightly slower nexus for a faster robo unit or two; 1 gate fe is best economically. Unless you're in a higher league like master league, you shouldn't be worrying about when to do what opening. You can do any opening and if you play well you'll win. With a 3 Gate Expo, attack the opponent if they get a faster CC. With a 1 Gate Robo FE just allin with 2 Colossus and +1 attack, every game. Just figure out what to do with your opening, and stick to a single one. Don't overthink and focus on differences between different openings because it just doesn't matter compared to being able to execute a single opening properly.
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Is it actually possible to do a fast expansion (1 gate/2 gate) against a 3 rax stim? In Gold PvT is just a 3 rax fest and it's quite frustrating where it seems it's impossible to early expo against them 
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United States8476 Posts
On October 06 2011 05:08 ProxyKnoxy wrote:Is it actually possible to do a fast expansion (1 gate/2 gate) against a 3 rax stim? In Gold PvT is just a 3 rax fest and it's quite frustrating where it seems it's impossible to early expo against them
Yes, just get a good sentry count early, keep your macro up, and cut probes at the right timing.
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Thanks Cecil - you're absolutely right. In no way am I blaming losses on the opening.. when I lose I can point to multiple mistakes I made that have absolutely nothing to do with the build order. Rather, I was asking to understand the matchup better and the consequences of my actions. That may very well tie into your point about overthinking 
Another interesting point you brought up has to do with the midgame transition. Basically, I'd do a 3 gate or a 1 gate robo only knowing one is slower nex and one is faster nex and one has a slower robo vs. faster etc. I didn't think through the next step - the reason I've built 3 gates is to apply early pressure against a faster expo and if I don't attack I've put myself behind for no reason. Likewise, the reason to go 1 gate robo is to get faster collosus (I'm guessing the 2 colli +1 hits before/around medivacs and certainly before vikings) and if I don't use that faster robo tech it's wasted.
Thanks again,
m
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On October 06 2011 05:09 NrGmonk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 05:08 ProxyKnoxy wrote:Is it actually possible to do a fast expansion (1 gate/2 gate) against a 3 rax stim? In Gold PvT is just a 3 rax fest and it's quite frustrating where it seems it's impossible to early expo against them Yes, just get a good sentry count early, keep your macro up, and cut probes at the right timing.
If you see marauders you can also add gates to a total of 4 before making your 34 pylon. This helps getting out more units fast enoough, you can even pull probes if necessary because you have to nexuses producing probes after the battle is over.
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What is the best way to engage a broodlord roach army if you have a collosi stalker zealot army?
Should I stall and try to get other tech? And if they force an engagement how should I fight it?
If anyone has some replays demonstrating this could they please upload it?
thanks
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What do you guys think about the Maka Gate in PvP?
It's the 2gate gasless opening where you run up their ramp with 4 zealots + 2 chronoed stalkers not far behind before warpgate hits, but you place your second pylon and gateway somewhere else, generally near your natural.
It will generally make the opponent uneasy and turtle way too hard (i've gotten to ramps to see 3 cannons at the top) or try to all in you, either way you are well off. If they turtle hard, you have tons of probes and can take a pretty easy expo and if they tried to rush warpgate while cutting units, it's an easy amove into their probe line.
Maybe it's just where I am sitting (low masters MMR) in the ladder but nobody walls off ever so this is basically a free win as they will either let my zealots in and damage is basically assured or waste gas warping in sentries.
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On October 06 2011 15:13 DropTester wrote:What is the best way to engage a broodlord roach army if you have a collosi stalker zealot army? Should I stall and try to get other tech? And if they force an engagement how should I fight it? If anyone has some replays demonstrating this could they please upload it? thanks
You have to stall for voidrays. Get 2 Stargates immediately and start chronoing them out.
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On October 06 2011 15:32 paintfive wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 15:13 DropTester wrote:What is the best way to engage a broodlord roach army if you have a collosi stalker zealot army? Should I stall and try to get other tech? And if they force an engagement how should I fight it? If anyone has some replays demonstrating this could they please upload it? thanks You have to stall for voidrays. Get 2 Stargates immediately and start chronoing them out.
what happens if they have corruptors?
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On October 06 2011 15:49 DropTester wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2011 15:32 paintfive wrote:On October 06 2011 15:13 DropTester wrote:What is the best way to engage a broodlord roach army if you have a collosi stalker zealot army? Should I stall and try to get other tech? And if they force an engagement how should I fight it? If anyone has some replays demonstrating this could they please upload it? thanks You have to stall for voidrays. Get 2 Stargates immediately and start chronoing them out. what happens if they have corruptors?
You make more void rays.
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voidrays eat corruptors thats right and Broodlords as well.
problem is, to get the voidrays fast enough out in high numbers, and: the costs.
so, the easier/faster/saver/better counter for broodlords is blink-stalker. if you already have stalker, get blink, and blink under the broodlords. and get upgrades, very important in PvZ.
btw i recommend Hasuobs replays for learning PvZ.
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Hi there, im in Gold and everytime i face a Zerg i get 7 roach rushed+20 lings, what is the safest opening i can do against this without beeing all in?
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On October 06 2011 22:30 ScaringKids wrote:
Hi there, im in Gold and everytime i face a Zerg i get 7 roach rushed+20 lings, what is the safest opening i can do against this without beeing all in?
If you forge FE you need to add a lot of cannons. Otherwise you can just 3gate FE and add a forge after the nexus, this should allow you to have 1 cannon by default or more if you scouted it coming.
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hi everyone,
can some1 post a link to teach me how to do a proper a 1g nexus opening? i heard its strong..
thank you for yr much appreciated help :D
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On October 07 2011 01:15 SGilna wrote:
hi everyone,
can some1 post a link to teach me how to do a proper a 1g nexus opening? i heard its strong..
thank you for yr much appreciated help :D
What matchup are you talking about?
PvT:
9pylon
13 gate (scout)
14 gas
16 pylon
@100% gate - core, zealot
23-25 pylon
@100% core - warpgate research, stalker
@100% stalker - stalker
@400 minerals - nexus
Then you add enough gates (2-3) to defend any aggression the terran might throw at you.
PvZ:
The opener is about the same as in PvT but you get another gas after the zealot and then you chronoboost a lot of sentries. You also add 2 gates fast after the nexus to wall and block any zerglings. I think this build expands at 33-34 food somewhere as opposed to the 30-31 of the PvT opener.
There is also another PvT build where you get another gas instead of the zealot and then make stalker sentry sentry out of the gateway.
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EPT
