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Northern Ireland26096 Posts
@ Wilko, you NEED those extra gates to remax quickly if you have a bad engagement. It is one of the strengths of Protoss that if you have a lot in the bank you can rebuild very fast
Generally you can be really efficient with your macro, not miss your warpins up to a point. But as we know late game ball vs ball can be very volatile. You can have a superior army on paper, but if they land some clutch EMPS and you have a terrible engagement you just can't rebuild quickly enough before a competent opponent hits your base. Also bear in mind that Protoss cannot queue from their warpgates like Terran, so unless you have perfect, perfect macro, you'll miss a warpin at some point if you're relying on a lower number of gates, which in itself is pretty inefficient I guess.
@Whalecore, it's a pretty detailed thread with a ton of variants but I think this is what you're looking for http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=223726 I personally don't pressure like the pros do using the build because a lot of players around me get very early marauders with concussive shells so it's risky as hell to poke with stalkers, but the concept of the build overall works very well.
My question, basically regards how to know it's safe to pressure Zergs, obviously it varies from game to game but at what point does it generally become too risky to start moving around the map and trying to pressure a zerg like that?
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Yes, but as i said i'm talking about the mid-game, not anywhere near about the maxed-supply-situation
The only times i understand why you would do that is when your templar archive is about to finish since zealot archon is cheaper in unit-to-gateway relativity or if you need the gates to create a wall/choke
But i see players like MC, White-Ra and especially HuK do that in almost any other situation aswell and i can't comprehend why yet
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Northern Ireland26096 Posts
You're pre-empting what will happen in the lategame though, it's just planning ahead for any unforseen eventualities.
Anyway to reiterate my question, at what sort of timings is it safe to leave your base and try to force units vs Zerg and what kind of compositions should be looking to get together? Obviously this differs greatly if you're facing mass lings/spines as opposed to a roach ball. Cheers in advance
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Thanks Uberton and Lightspeaker.
Hi Wilko, you played RA3 right? ^-^
About the extra warp-gate thing.. another good reason for getting more than you can support is to better defend vs drops and zergling harassment. More warpgates means you can warp in more stuff at a time, so you can maybe get 5 zealots defending instead of just 3. Also if you're planning to get DT/warp-prism it is really nice to be able to warp in higher amounts of DTs in their base.
But the main reason I think is because really no one have the ability to be 100% spot on with their warp-ins even mid-game. I think most players would start floating quite high on minerals if they had just the right amount of warp-gates.
Sometimes in PvP, I start to float minerals, and I go from 3 gates to 5 gates on one base if I need to make a really strong push to punish an expo or something. It's a great way to burn those extra minerals quickly.
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Yes, i played RA3 and i even remember you (empire-player) 
Hm, being able to handle drops and harrasses is a point, but i'm not sure, if it still might not be better to counter-act those drops and harrasses by good scouting and splitting and positioning your units near drop-areas, while observing the movements of the enemy's main-army
To me it seems quite easy to have 100% spot on warp-ins in mid-game even under pressure and i don't think that pros, who have better mechanics than i do, would have any problem with doing so
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how do i deal with fast ghost mass marines in pvt?
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On September 30 2011 00:15 xmikeyy17x wrote:
how do i deal with fast ghost mass marines in pvt?
How I deal with them:
- Always have a unit between my base and his, so you see when he moves out. Optimally would be an obs.
- When he is about to move into your natural, use force fields very early. You don't need to completely block off the choke, just place enough forcefields so that one or two additional forcefields are enough to complete the choke. Yes this may be a "waste" of energy, and he may just move back, but that means you just bought yourself a lot of time and warp gate production. This is also very effective in general vs terran. You can scare them into moving back by placing early forcefields like this..
- Use guardian shield before he engages.
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On September 30 2011 01:08 Whalecore wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2011 00:15 xmikeyy17x wrote:
how do i deal with fast ghost mass marines in pvt? How I deal with them: - Always have a unit between my base and his, so you see when he moves out. Optimally would be an obs. - When he is about to move into your natural, use force fields very early. You don't need to completely block off the choke, just place enough forcefields so that one or two additional forcefields are enough to complete the choke. Yes this may be a "waste" of energy, and he may just move back, but that means you just bought yourself a lot of time and warp gate production. This is also very effective in general vs terran. You can scare them into moving back by placing early forcefields like this.. - Use guardian shield before he engages.
This, and:
Make more sentries than he has EMPs.
Split all your units as much as possible, especially the sentries.
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United States8476 Posts
On September 29 2011 22:10 Wilko wrote:Yes, i played RA3 and i even remember you (empire-player) Hm, being able to handle drops and harrasses is a point, but i'm not sure, if it still might not be better to counter-act those drops and harrasses by good scouting and splitting and positioning your units near drop-areas, while observing the movements of the enemy's main-army To me it seems quite easy to have 100% spot on warp-ins in mid-game even under pressure and i don't think that pros, who have better mechanics than i do, would have any problem with doing so
A big reason people add gateways is to account for timings. I'll give you an example. If you one gate fast expand, a very common gateway setup is to add 3 gateways and then either a robo or a forge. You need these 3 gateways to defend things such as a 2 rax, hellion pressure, or 1 rax cc into 4 rax. You might not use all 3 of these gateways at all times, but you need them if one of these things happen. Notice that all of these timings happen in the very early stages of the game, between 5 and 7 minutes. The next actual big timings in pvt, the 2 base timings, are the following: 2 ghost stim timing, mass stim timing, stim medivac timing, or 2 base marine tank banshee timing. These all occur between 9 minutes and 10:30. Thus, a very popular "gateway transition strategy" is to add 3 gates at the same time to account for these timings. Again, the timings might not come, but at least you have the available gateways to hold them off if they do.
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United States8476 Posts
On September 30 2011 00:15 xmikeyy17x wrote:
how do i deal with fast ghost mass marines in pvt?
The previous posters gave good general advice on the issue, but your question is unclear. Is it a 1 or 2 base timing? What build did you use against it? Post a replay for better answers.
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United States8476 Posts
On September 29 2011 19:37 Whalecore wrote:
I have some questions regarding PvT 1 gate 1 gas expand:
How many chronoboosts do I spend on probes?
When do I put down the nexus?
When do I put down the robo or extra gates?
When do I get my 2nd gas?
What do I produce out of my gateway while WG is researching?
Anyone got a replay of a "normal" executed PvT 1 gate 1 gas expo?
Thanks <3
Check out this thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=269943
Especially look at MC's version of 1 gate expand and the replay associated with it. The build order he uses is brilliant and imo the safest way to play 1 gate expand right now, as it defends both 2 rax and 1-1-1 and anything else with proper scouting.
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What's the best way to deal with cloak banshee harass when facing a terran who 111s? I usually dont have a forge up and if my observer is at the terran base or on the way there I just feel screwed. Should I instantly pull all my probes? I feel like the best response would be a cannon or 2 in each mineral line but if they arent going cloak Id rather just leave a couple stalkers to defend.
I just faced 2 terrans in a row who did this to me. Even with 2 obs up the terran did such economic damage that he was able to expand like 6 minutes after me and at the end of the game had mined more resources than me >_<. Even if I dont lose any probes when I pull them all I just lose so much mining time that it doesnt seem worth it.
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United States8476 Posts
On September 30 2011 13:55 flipstorm wrote:
What's the best way to deal with cloak banshee harass when facing a terran who 111s? I usually dont have a forge up and if my observer is at the terran base or on the way there I just feel screwed. Should I instantly pull all my probes? I feel like the best response would be a cannon or 2 in each mineral line but if they arent going cloak Id rather just leave a couple stalkers to defend.
I just faced 2 terrans in a row who did this to me. Even with 2 obs up the terran did such economic damage that he was able to expand like 6 minutes after me and at the end of the game had mined more resources than me >_<. Even if I dont lose any probes when I pull them all I just lose so much mining time that it doesnt seem worth it.
Always get 2 observers by default out of your robo. If you see cloak, immediately get a 3rd observer and park one in each mineral line while putting at least 2 stalkers worth of dps in each mineral line.
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Lately I've been encountering Zergs going for hatch first and mass lings until three bases or more. The gasses are delayed as much as possible and the defence consists mostly of ling run-bys when moving out to attack and a lot of spine crawlers. I couldn't play a lot for the last three days or so so I couldn't get much more experience in dealing with such a style. I find it very difficult securing even my natural sometimes and a third seems always out of reach. I will try to supply a replay as soon as I can. Thanks in advance to any replies.
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On September 30 2011 16:20 4rChon wrote:
Lately I've been encountering Zergs going for hatch first and mass lings until three bases or more. The gasses are delayed as much as possible and the defence consists mostly of ling run-bys when moving out to attack and a lot of spine crawlers. I couldn't play a lot for the last three days or so so I couldn't get much more experience in dealing with such a style. I find it very difficult securing even my natural sometimes and a third seems always out of reach. I will try to supply a replay as soon as I can. Thanks in advance to any replies.
The downside is you can't attack him easily. If you really want to, you can wall off your natural and defend with cannons. The upside is that he is weak, and you can take a third quite fast. I usually make 1-2 cannons in my natural and leave a sentry or two to prevent any ling run-bys and then I use the rest of my army to take a third. For taking your natural, it is doable with 1gate expands but you may want to get 2 or maybe even 3 gates. And don't forget weapon upgrades~
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Help Me.
User was warned for this post
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On September 30 2011 19:09 eXoGhost wrote:
Help Me.
Sure thing buddy. What do you need help with ?
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On September 30 2011 19:09 eXoGhost wrote:
Help Me.
<3
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Canada13389 Posts
On September 30 2011 19:09 eXoGhost wrote:
Help Me.
Sure. Go to best buy and buy a 20 dollar keyboard with more than 5 working keys. Should solve the problem immediately 
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How do people feel about the PvT build that's been popping up in GSTL recently? 1 Gate Expo > Double Forge with Blink first and a fast Collosus transisition? It's been doing awesome lately and seems really safe. It also looks like there are quite a few opportunities where you'll have a significant upgrade advantage on your opponent, which you can use to abuse for some effective engagements.
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EPT
