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Canada13389 Posts
On October 02 2011 01:45 xmikeyy17x wrote:
how do i beat a thor rush with auto-repair scvs...?
that shit is so god damn imba. specially when he pulls all his god damn workers and has mules...
If you opened with an FE into robo make immortals and zealots then pull your own probes and attack with everything. - You need some stalkers but more zealots is better than more stalkers since zealots have higher dps and kill the scvs repairing faster.
If you didnt expand make some zealots some stalkers and a few immortals and dont fight down the ramp if he pulled all his scvs and he retreats back home you will be ahead, if he follows through thors are huge and they block a lot of the ramp making the surface area repairing scvs use less effective.
Of course you do need to scout all of this coming for you. Thats what I do but I dont always win (engaging improperly for example). Make sure the immortals are focusing the thors and a-move everything else the thors will eventually die and the scvs will die fast if probes and zealots are part of the fight. The longer the zealots survive the better.
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On October 02 2011 01:53 Latedi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 01:45 xmikeyy17x wrote:
how do i beat a thor rush with auto-repair scvs...?
that shit is so god damn imba. specially when he pulls all his god damn workers and has mules...
Yup that rush is pretty damn strong. You want a sentry or two, immortals if you can and then a lot of zealot stalker. Focus fire the thor with range units and let the zealots slash whatever they can. What you need to do is engaging so that his SCVs cant really repair. For example you can forcefield behind the thor on a ramp to trap it and only a few scvs can repair from that angle. Mineral drilling and then repairing again is probably too much micro for anyone who thor rushes (I just can't imagine anyone skilled doing it heh). That's all advice I can give, it has been ages since i fought this. Would be nice if someone else could write some more.
actually i had 2 immortals and a decent amount of stalkers and zealots a few sentries for this engagement.. and i actually did have the same idea as you because i had been thor rush before a bit.
and well. i was hoping to block the scvs w/ ff but his 2nd thor broke it and i tried focus firing but there were just way to many scvs. i even pulled all my probes.
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What build are you using exactly? I think you could have more immortals out.
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Is 4 Gate still viable in PvP with patch 1.4? Or should I be focussing on some kind of Robo based build? Like a 3 Gate Robo with a Gate/Robo/Gate/Gate?
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On October 02 2011 04:20 aZealot wrote:
Is 4 Gate still viable in PvP with patch 1.4? Or should I be focussing on some kind of Robo based build? Like a 3 Gate Robo with a Gate/Robo/Gate/Gate?
I can't think of any decisive reason why not based on the patch notes. Although the improved immortal range might hurt if he goes super-fast immortals while you're building stalkers.
As a caveat to that, however, from what I can tell (at least down in my league) defensive three-gates are gradually becoming more popular and they can shut down four-gates pretty handily whilst also transitioning well.
Then again, "focussing" on four-gating seems a bit risky to me. Its not exactly a build you can rely on.
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On October 02 2011 04:20 aZealot wrote:
Is 4 Gate still viable in PvP with patch 1.4? Or should I be focussing on some kind of Robo based build? Like a 3 Gate Robo with a Gate/Robo/Gate/Gate?
4gate does work but some builds are just safe against it now. It would be better to use another build.
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Ok here's my analysis:
1) Don't cancel so many buildings, you lose money. Also don't wall against terran, they have ranged units.
2) You saw a techlab on the factory so get immortal right after the observer. They are good against both tanks and thors.
3) your observer doesnt really scout his base, only his wall off.
4) Your immortal got stuck, plan your building placement more and make immortals constantly.
5) There is absolutely no need whatsoever for the second observer, make immortals instead.
6) Seems like you cut probes way to early. You should have like 30 probes when you start cutting, not 23.
7) The engagement was really bad for you. He could do no damage from there and half your units aren't doing anything in fight. Just wait until he goes up your ramp. You can't forcefield that close to the thors either. When you forcefield massive units what you really want to do is forcefield the small ones so they blick the massive ones with their own hitboxes.
8) Make a lot more zealots, stalkers won't cut it.
9) Macro better.
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On October 02 2011 05:18 Lightspeaker wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 04:20 aZealot wrote:
Is 4 Gate still viable in PvP with patch 1.4? Or should I be focussing on some kind of Robo based build? Like a 3 Gate Robo with a Gate/Robo/Gate/Gate? I can't think of any decisive reason why not based on the patch notes. Although the improved immortal range might hurt if he goes super-fast immortals while you're building stalkers. As a caveat to that, however, from what I can tell (at least down in my league) defensive three-gates are gradually becoming more popular and they can shut down four-gates pretty handily whilst also transitioning well. Then again, "focussing" on four-gating seems a bit risky to me. Its not exactly a build you can rely on.
The ramp vision change makes 4gates total coin flips. If your opponent makes 2 sentries against a 4gate, the 4gate will lose.
So yes, I think some builds involving a robo are safest. I'm not quite sure how to play a safe pvp, it seems very coin flippy.
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On October 02 2011 08:32 Oreo7 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 05:18 Lightspeaker wrote:On October 02 2011 04:20 aZealot wrote:
Is 4 Gate still viable in PvP with patch 1.4? Or should I be focussing on some kind of Robo based build? Like a 3 Gate Robo with a Gate/Robo/Gate/Gate? I can't think of any decisive reason why not based on the patch notes. Although the improved immortal range might hurt if he goes super-fast immortals while you're building stalkers. As a caveat to that, however, from what I can tell (at least down in my league) defensive three-gates are gradually becoming more popular and they can shut down four-gates pretty handily whilst also transitioning well. Then again, "focussing" on four-gating seems a bit risky to me. Its not exactly a build you can rely on. The ramp vision change makes 4gates total coin flips. If your opponent makes 2 sentries against a 4gate, the 4gate will lose. So yes, I think some builds involving a robo are safest. I'm not quite sure how to play a safe pvp, it seems very coin flippy.
If you don't want to take any risks you can always 3stalker rush  I don't think it's vulnerable to anything.
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On October 02 2011 08:32 Oreo7 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 05:18 Lightspeaker wrote:On October 02 2011 04:20 aZealot wrote:
Is 4 Gate still viable in PvP with patch 1.4? Or should I be focussing on some kind of Robo based build? Like a 3 Gate Robo with a Gate/Robo/Gate/Gate? I can't think of any decisive reason why not based on the patch notes. Although the improved immortal range might hurt if he goes super-fast immortals while you're building stalkers. As a caveat to that, however, from what I can tell (at least down in my league) defensive three-gates are gradually becoming more popular and they can shut down four-gates pretty handily whilst also transitioning well. Then again, "focussing" on four-gating seems a bit risky to me. Its not exactly a build you can rely on. The ramp vision change makes 4gates total coin flips. If your opponent makes 2 sentries against a 4gate, the 4gate will lose. So yes, I think some builds involving a robo are safest. I'm not quite sure how to play a safe pvp, it seems very coin flippy.
Thanks, forgot about the ramp vision change.
That said, a couple of sentries were good for holding off rushes even before the patch. Either way 4-gate was risky before and its getting riskier over time; whether from patches or people just flat out learning counters.
As far as "safe" PvP goes; personally I think his best bet is some kinda defensive 3-gate. Then transition to Blink or Robo. I think there are guides drifting around here somewhere.
Something like this perhaps: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Defensive_3_Gate_(vs._Protoss)
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On October 02 2011 09:57 Lightspeaker wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2011 08:32 Oreo7 wrote:On October 02 2011 05:18 Lightspeaker wrote:On October 02 2011 04:20 aZealot wrote:
Is 4 Gate still viable in PvP with patch 1.4? Or should I be focussing on some kind of Robo based build? Like a 3 Gate Robo with a Gate/Robo/Gate/Gate? I can't think of any decisive reason why not based on the patch notes. Although the improved immortal range might hurt if he goes super-fast immortals while you're building stalkers. As a caveat to that, however, from what I can tell (at least down in my league) defensive three-gates are gradually becoming more popular and they can shut down four-gates pretty handily whilst also transitioning well. Then again, "focussing" on four-gating seems a bit risky to me. Its not exactly a build you can rely on. The ramp vision change makes 4gates total coin flips. If your opponent makes 2 sentries against a 4gate, the 4gate will lose. So yes, I think some builds involving a robo are safest. I'm not quite sure how to play a safe pvp, it seems very coin flippy. Thanks, forgot about the ramp vision change. That said, a couple of sentries were good for holding off rushes even before the patch. Either way 4-gate was risky before and its getting riskier over time; whether from patches or people just flat out learning counters. As far as "safe" PvP goes; personally I think his best bet is some kinda defensive 3-gate. Then transition to Blink or Robo. I think there are guides drifting around here somewhere. Something like this perhaps: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Defensive_3_Gate_(vs._Protoss)
Nah, people are 1gate expanding now, and you're sooo far behind if you 3gate and they 1gate expo. Or if someone straight techs to blink or robo etc.
And no, you couldn't hold off a properly executed 4gate pre patch with sentries.
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Thanks guys, got back into my 1v1 today after 2 - 3 weeks (been playing a ton of 2v2 and 3v3 with mates recently). I had 3 PvP and went 3 gate for all of them transitioning into Robo and then Colossus. I expo'ed in all the match-ups too although I didn't play enough PvP to know if this is now viable at my level (Gold on AM). Also, only 1 of the match-ups was standard where I held off a 1 base Colossus push with 3 Gate/Robo off 2 bases (Immortals wreck Colossus if they are in range) while the other 2 were more cheesy (held a weird 4 Gate Zealot push @ 5 min and then a DT rush drop with Prism) so I can't base anything off of those. I'll keep going 3 Gate before committing to Robo/Expo. I don't have the APM to do 3 Stalker Rush at my level, not without my macro slipping.
Cheers for the help.
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what's the economic cost for going forge, cannon, gateway nexus (or nexus before gateway) as opposed to nexus first?
(say you scout at 9, scout first, see hatch first or 14pool and decide to go nexus first instead of f c n or f c g n)
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On October 02 2011 19:30 michaelhasanalias wrote:
what's the economic cost for going forge, cannon, gateway nexus (or nexus before gateway) as opposed to nexus first?
(say you scout at 9, scout first, see hatch first or 14pool and decide to go nexus first instead of f c n or f c g n)
That's an interesting question. The price mainly comes in probe production and chronoboost energy. The minerals won't be saturated in the main this early so that won't be much of a problem. Either way you will be supply blocked at 17/18 for a while when you get a gate, cannon and additional pylon. Both ways are going to be able to produce probes again at about the same time, I can't imagining nexus first having a big advantage. 2-3 probes at the most.
As for your build, you can get away with 13 forge 17 nexus. If you double scout the nexus won't be up for a 6pool so either you don't build it at all or you'll have to cancel it. Then you can just proceed to get a cannon and wall or make a pylon and cannon in your main, sacrificing your wall. If you don't scout zerg first but he's doing 14pool you want to go 13 forge 17 nexus 17 gate 17 cannon 17 pylon and then resume probe production. This is preference however, some players like to get the pylon earlier to resume probe production, some players stay at 18 food instead but I don't think it's optimal. Also getting the cannon before the gate may be necessary on some maps or positions. If you do however build all the buildings first that you wrote about, a nexus first will be far superior.
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Hello!
What is the proper respone to 3 gate + stargate all-in pvp?
I was going for 3 gate + robotic, when I scouted he was chronoing phoenixes out I went ahead and expand plus dropped down twilight, 1 additional gateway and forge. He did some harass I lost a few probes then he moved out and I just couldn't hold. What do you want to do in this situation? My defense was like 3-4 cannons with 4-5 sentries for all stalker/zealots and blink stalkers. I didn't find any sufficient way to deal with the phoenixes so that's why I am asking. Else it feels kind of like a build order loss.
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On October 02 2011 22:27 eYeball wrote:
Hello!
What is the proper respone to 3 gate + stargate all-in pvp?
I was going for 3 gate + robotic, when I scouted he was chronoing phoenixes out I went ahead and expand plus dropped down twilight, 1 additional gateway and forge. He did some harass I lost a few probes then he moved out and I just couldn't hold. What do you want to do in this situation? My defense was like 3-4 cannons with 4-5 sentries for all stalker/zealots and blink stalkers. I didn't find any sufficient way to deal with the phoenixes so that's why I am asking. Else it feels kind of like a build order loss.
Yes you can't really produce any robo units against this strategy. Blink is good against harass but I feel like getting archons is the best way of dealing with it. Don't expand to fast either because you are still behind because of the robo and any units you produced out of it. After archons I usually get blink and charge on 2 bases to get a good gateway army. The more cheap units you have the less effective the phoenixes will be as they can only kill as much as they have energy, also they can't lift archons and archons does crazy damage if they clump up. This is not perfectly accurate information though because I don't have much experience against stargate. Just don't get too many stalkers, many players follow up the initial harass with an immortal push.
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im a protoss player high diamond and im looking for some terran that can help me figure out how to beat ghost, what i usually do is chargelot, archon, ht and it does not matter b/c ghosts are to good add me if are interested in helping me/ looking for a practice partner(any race is fine) please have skype or vent and please be over 18 thanks! here is my name/char code
TGxVoid
302
or add me ok skype: Void951
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On October 03 2011 08:05 Sean_Void_Richardson wrote:
im a protoss player high diamond and im looking for some terran that can help me figure out how to beat ghost, what i usually do is chargelot, archon, ht and it does not matter b/c ghosts are to good add me if are interested in helping me/ looking for a practice partner(any race is fine) please have skype or vent and please be over 18 thanks! here is my name/char code
TGxVoid
302
or add me ok skype: Void951
The easiest straight up unit counter to ghosts is colossus. However it's all about your build and the engagements. If you clump all your units up EMP is going to rape you while if you use observers, HTs and blink stalkers to snipe the ghosts before the battle you will easily storm the terran to death. Watch any pro PvT macro game and you are sure to see how to kill/die to ghosts. I don't think you'll find any terrans here though, go look in the practice partner thread.
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On October 03 2011 08:54 Latedi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 08:05 Sean_Void_Richardson wrote:
im a protoss player high diamond and im looking for some terran that can help me figure out how to beat ghost, what i usually do is chargelot, archon, ht and it does not matter b/c ghosts are to good add me if are interested in helping me/ looking for a practice partner(any race is fine) please have skype or vent and please be over 18 thanks! here is my name/char code
TGxVoid
302
or add me ok skype: Void951 The easiest straight up unit counter to ghosts is colossus. However it's all about your build and the engagements. If you clump all your units up EMP is going to rape you while if you use observers, HTs and blink stalkers to snipe the ghosts before the battle you will easily storm the terran to death. Watch any pro PvT macro game and you are sure to see how to kill/die to ghosts. I don't think you'll find any terrans here though, go look in the practice partner thread.
Its next to impossible to counter ghosts effectively. As a master protoss who has experience this kind of thing many times, I have found that it is impossible to completely prevent the inevitable carpet bombing of your army with emps. He will snipe your obs and run cloaked ghosts in to do the work.
Therefore I have found that the best counter to ghosts is to essentially split as effectively as possible, eat the emps, and retreat for as long as possible before engaging the Terran ball. Forcefield them off if possible, with any energy you may have remaining.
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EPT
