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The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 254
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whistle
United States141 Posts
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Ripebananaa
Canada129 Posts
I'm currently high diamond, playing mostly vs low masters atm. In PvT, I wing everything. I'm not sure when is the best time to drop my gateways and robo at the start of the game. I typically 1 gate expand, or 3 gate expand (usually 1g). I'm looking for a 1gate expand build order that goes at least till 3 gates and a robo is up. More specifically, I don't know what food is ideal to build the gateways/robo, since a stalker basically costs a gateway, I'm usually not sure whether to build another stalker (out of fear of being attacked) or a gate. Also since I'm usually chronoing probes, that spends a lot of minerals quickly so I'm even more starved and unable to build gates. Just looking for a build so I can auto-pilot a little bit, and not be so "wingy". Thanks | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
On June 06 2012 07:59 CCalms wrote: Don't listen to that guy, you don't need to show a replay. 6rax all-in without medivacs is actually very easy to beat. First off, we have to assume you are working off of a 1gate expand or nexus first. There exists no other openers that will get you in an equally efficient midgame unless you somehow do damage, in which case you'll end up in the same place (3gate robo on 2 bases). From here, there are essentially three ways you can go about standard PvT. First off is a fast third base with a lot of gateways. If you do this, you will use your superior economy to beat the 6rax with mass zealots with a few sentries and a minimal amount of stalkers. This is probably the build to beat the all-in with. The easiest would be to go straight into colossus and delaying upgrades off of 2 base. This is a very popular way to play PvT and, with the help of forcefields, hard counters 6rax. If you go into my preferred way to play, fast double forge, you wont have colossus in time to stop the push. In order to survive off 2 bases without AoE, you will have to put down a few cannons and use forcefields witha lot of stalkers. If it's not a map with a forcefieldable ramp at the natural (tal darim, daybreak, ohana, shakuras, etc), then you will have to try doing it with a couple cannons and mass zealot sentry. Regardless, you should be working off of 6 gates and 2 forges and complete knowledge that the all-in is coming thanks to observers. Ezpz. I could have written that as well but felt what he asked was too general; What build does he open with? What league? Did he simply mis-micro or was it something more? I'm not a retard and I know how to play the game; now my panties are in a bunch, thanks a lot. | ||
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awwnuts07
United States621 Posts
On June 06 2012 07:59 CCalms wrote: Don't listen to that guy, you don't need to show a replay. 6rax all-in without medivacs is actually very easy to beat. First off, we have to assume you are working off of a 1gate expand or nexus first. There exists no other openers that will get you in an equally efficient midgame unless you somehow do damage, in which case you'll end up in the same place (3gate robo on 2 bases). From here, there are essentially three ways you can go about standard PvT. First off is a fast third base with a lot of gateways. If you do this, you will use your superior economy to beat the 6rax with mass zealots with a few sentries and a minimal amount of stalkers. This is probably the build to beat the all-in with. The easiest would be to go straight into colossus and delaying upgrades off of 2 base. This is a very popular way to play PvT and, with the help of forcefields, hard counters 6rax. If you go into my preferred way to play, fast double forge, you wont have colossus in time to stop the push. In order to survive off 2 bases without AoE, you will have to put down a few cannons and use forcefields witha lot of stalkers. If it's not a map with a forcefieldable ramp at the natural (tal darim, daybreak, ohana, shakuras, etc), then you will have to try doing it with a couple cannons and mass zealot sentry. Regardless, you should be working off of 6 gates and 2 forges and complete knowledge that the all-in is coming thanks to observers. Ezpz. This is very helpful, but I'll still most likely post so I can get some some of you higher level players to see the holes in play. When you say fast 3rd, how fast are we talking; around 8-9 min? I've got more questions, but this time for PvP: When doing the 1 base 2 colossi all-in, I completely skip immortals and rush straight to colossi, right? Also, when immortal expanding, how many do I build before planting the nexus? Two? If anyone could direct me to the builds with benchmarks, I'd really appreciate it. thx. On June 06 2012 13:04 tehemperorer wrote: I could have written that as well but felt what he asked was too general; What build does he open with? What league? Did he simply mis-micro or was it something more? I'm not a retard and I know how to play the game; now my panties are in a bunch, thanks a lot. Sorry about the generalness of the post. I'm a Gold who used to play plats, but a losing streak has me playing golds and the occasional silver again. I open MC 1 gate expo, but I'm pretty sure I'm losing to those 6 rax builds because I'm teching to fast. I did find 1 replay of a loss to this particular all-in, but my loss was due to an obvious mis-control (forgot I put my sentries on a different hotkey). When I get a better replay, I'll definitely post it. | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On June 06 2012 11:25 Ripebananaa wrote: Hi TL! I'm currently high diamond, playing mostly vs low masters atm. In PvT, I wing everything. I'm not sure when is the best time to drop my gateways and robo at the start of the game. I typically 1 gate expand, or 3 gate expand (usually 1g). I'm looking for a 1gate expand build order that goes at least till 3 gates and a robo is up. More specifically, I don't know what food is ideal to build the gateways/robo, since a stalker basically costs a gateway, I'm usually not sure whether to build another stalker (out of fear of being attacked) or a gate. Also since I'm usually chronoing probes, that spends a lot of minerals quickly so I'm even more starved and unable to build gates. Just looking for a build so I can auto-pilot a little bit, and not be so "wingy". Thanks MCs 1-gate FE. Monk has done a good writeup on it, so search for mc fe. | ||
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Immutant
Singapore201 Posts
Can anyone give me a good BO or some tips on fighting zerg. Whenever I play ZvP I just defend with spines and roll the toss with roach infestor broodlords so my "random 9 matchup experience" doesn't help me here. | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On June 06 2012 18:44 Immutant wrote: Hi I am a random plat player. I am confident in most of all my matchups. However, I lose a lot of my PvZ because the zerg player always seems to get a lot of roaches and roll me over. (I tend to have very little gas, can only build gateways or zealots). Can anyone give me a good BO or some tips on fighting zerg. Whenever I play ZvP I just defend with spines and roll the toss with roach infestor broodlords so my "random 9 matchup experience" doesn't help me here. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=327905; to fight infestor broodlord you want to transition into mothership+templar, especially archons to archon toilet him, while using the superior mobility that warpgates give you to harass him and contain his economy. Can't say more without looking at a replay. | ||
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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aLmosTeu
Germany101 Posts
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On June 07 2012 00:50 Tommyyy wrote: hey i'll ask again, someone could give me some good PvT 2 Base Colossus Timings? :D thanks in advice ♥ MCs 1gate FE into 5-gate+robo, build two colossi and attack at ~12mins. Take your third when your first colossus is done. | ||
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-Kira
352 Posts
On June 06 2012 18:44 Immutant wrote: Hi I am a random plat player. I am confident in most of all my matchups. However, I lose a lot of my PvZ because the zerg player always seems to get a lot of roaches and roll me over. (I tend to have very little gas, can only build gateways or zealots). Can anyone give me a good BO or some tips on fighting zerg. Whenever I play ZvP I just defend with spines and roll the toss with roach infestor broodlords so my "random 9 matchup experience" doesn't help me here. What Sated suggested is probably the easiest solution. You can also check MC's games vs stephano when he opens stargate into defending 3rd, but it requires being active with stargate units which is hard while macroing well. | ||
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Prome7heus
7 Posts
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NinjaMagic
Sweden83 Posts
Ive been gone from Sc2 for a while, and want to start playing "seriously" again. However I dont really have any builds anymore... The games I just played I was playing of the top of my head. Old PvP build: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=318673 I found this working pretty good and have had it work twice so far since I started playing, I guess it works. PvT: 0 Idea, I actually cant remember what I use to do against terran. I think it was something like fast +1 armor and templars... then going up to 6+ gates. cant remember the tactic or even the name of it. Any suggestions on new tactics? PvZ: Ive always found this the hardest of the three, It feels like youre behind all game being all defensive with your FFE. In the end I started doing YuFFE and played really agressive with early zealot pressure into blink pressure (not all-in but really agressive and exping behind it) However when I tried this these few games I played Ive been pwned so bad. Am I just playing really bad or have zergs "figured it out"? Any and all advice is appreciated. | ||
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TheExodus
293 Posts
On June 07 2012 06:30 NinjaMagic wrote: Hey TL, Whats up? Ive been gone from Sc2 for a while, and want to start playing "seriously" again. However I dont really have any builds anymore... The games I just played I was playing of the top of my head. Old PvP build: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=318673 I found this working pretty good and have had it work twice so far since I started playing, I guess it works. PvT: 0 Idea, I actually cant remember what I use to do against terran. I think it was something like fast +1 armor and templars... then going up to 6+ gates. cant remember the tactic or even the name of it. Any suggestions on new tactics? PvZ: Ive always found this the hardest of the three, It feels like youre behind all game being all defensive with your FFE. In the end I started doing YuFFE and played really agressive with early zealot pressure into blink pressure (not all-in but really agressive and exping behind it) However when I tried this these few games I played Ive been pwned so bad. Am I just playing really bad or have zergs "figured it out"? Any and all advice is appreciated. PvP: 3-stalker rush into 3-gate+robo, push out when you have two immortals and expand behind it. PvT: MCs 1-gate FE then search for CreatorPrime pvt (early double forge+blink w/ a few colossi and archons) PvZ: queens have had their range upgraded, so zealot pressure is hard. I like gateway expands more, along with stargate for lifting the damned queen. | ||
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Misuari
Singapore45 Posts
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Rimak
Denmark434 Posts
On June 07 2012 12:41 Misuari wrote: Hi TL! I'm having a hard time with zerg when they go Stephano's 11min max build! Any good build to counter that? Cause i dont think i'll have enough to hold on a max at 11mins. Hi there, we all were struggling against this, but now there is more understanding what to do, here are some links, that may help: A big discussion thread about countering this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=320894 The unfamous 1/1 sentry-immortal allin http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325014 An extremly powerful 2 base allin by EmpireMista http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337516 Skytoss style http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333403 Also if your control is good, watch CreatorPrime's streams, he is very macro-oriented toss and usually takes early 3rd with robo-blink. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
I'd avoid the high level discussions regarding the build, and just learn one of the builds outlined above - Remark's build seems best. Alternatively, try Gate-Gas expanding and see how you go. If Zerg auto 3 hatch against your Gate expand, just 4 gate for the win at ~6.00 (fake Nexus cancel is optional). Search for Gate expands v Z on TL for more info/threads. | ||
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Rimak
Denmark434 Posts
I would suggest reading the Protoss recommended topics. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=284255 Especially safe PvX http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=266786 A how to improve guide http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=208343 And most important - macrostomp guide (it works) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=187162 | ||
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Misuari
Singapore45 Posts
On June 07 2012 18:40 Rimak wrote: Well Misuari if you really are Bronze, then don't worry about stephano style roaches, i can't possibly think of someone max out @11 in bronze. I would suggest reading the Protoss recommended topics. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=284255 Especially safe PvX http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=266786 A how to improve guide http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=208343 And most important - macrostomp guide (it works) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=187162 Well what's sad is stephano's 11min roach is dominating zerg at SEA . Well im a bronze but keep going up against gold and silver. so yeah , thats how i face with zerg with 11min max roach play. but i appreciate the help  | ||
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Rimak
Denmark434 Posts
On June 07 2012 18:55 Misuari wrote: Well what's sad is stephano's 11min roach is dominating zerg at SEA . Well im a bronze but keep going up against gold and silver. so yeah , thats how i face with zerg with 11min max roach play. but i appreciate the help Wow, if zergs on SEA are able to max out at 11 minutes in bronze, then it's so good that i play on EU. Wouldn't want to meet those guys. | ||
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