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On April 20 2012 12:42 Mikelius wrote:
Hey guys, quick but maybe complicated question. I've been playing my PvZ with a 4 immortal 6 gate timing which gives me moderate success. I try to hit at around 10:00 but sometimes I fuck and hit later. However looking at the replays what kills me most of the time is positioning. I tend to have an equal if not bigger army against mostly ling roach compositions, which should get stomped on by my army, but I do not know where or how to force a favorable engagement on maps such as Ohana, Antiga or Metropolis where the Zerg can catch my army out in the open.
On Antiga you break the rocks to the third and hug the wall and attack the zerg, if you hit early enough you should be fine. Feast did this to IdrA at the IEM world championships on the same map
For Metro enter the third through the middle ramp nothing too complicated.
I havent seen any all ins on Ohana and I have that map veto'd
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I think this might have been posted in this thread before, but I can't find it. Is it better to gateway expand or FFE? What are the pros and cons of both?
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Italy12246 Posts
On April 20 2012 15:39 Ksquared wrote:
I think this might have been posted in this thread before, but I can't find it. Is it better to gateway expand or FFE? What are the pros and cons of both?
Advantages of FFE: better early game economy, possibility for faster tech, timings and allins out of it are stronger than gateway expand, upgrades are a bit faster.
Disadvantages of FFE: extremely passive, zerg will always get a third up and defend it vs anything that isn't an allin if he plays correctly (say, you go stargate or +1 zealots). Unable to force any meaningful number of units early on. Might be a bit harder to secure a third since it allows zerg to max on pure roach really really damn fast.
Pros of Gateway expand (assuming with gas): can force a few more units early on and in the midgame by being active with your army, safer vs dumb shit you see in lower leagues like blind 1base roach/baneling bust, early access to hallucination basically gives you map hacks if used correctly. Slightly more unpredictable as it can be hard for zerg to gauge when exactly you will move out and with what intentions (just deny towers/scouting lings, or coming after a third to deny it or force a few units)
Cons of Gateway expand: economy is a lot worse than ffe, to be safe vs roach ling allins you are forced to tech a bit slow (and without good ff's it can be hard to hold sometimes), upgrades are a bit slower, highly relies on sentries early on, which means that if you move out, get caught out of positions and lose all your sentries you are in serious trouble.
I don't know nearly enough about no gas gateway expand so no idea how that does. Currently most people consider ffe to be superior, gateway expand as a standard build is rarely seen in pro play (only NonY does it as far as i know).
I personally think that in lower leagues (up to plat) gateway expand might be better because it's easier to run into stupid shit, and playing ffe can be kind of hard since people rarely react with a fast third; often it looks like they are trying to bust you but in reality they are just being bad, which means you won't learn much from your games.
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Hey,
It´s me again. Today I ran into the same problem on ladder als last time I wrote. PvT on Metalo. The Terran Opens up 1 Rax FE into Mass Marine (5-6 Raxes) and pushes me hard. I hold with almost no Proble losses. But suddenly he just goes full eco mode and overpowers me at the end. Could you take a look at the rep and say what you think?
In my opinion. I overreacted to the drops but it is pretty hard do fend off 2 full Dropships with marauders. But I didn´t loose much. Also I took my third a bit too late I guess.
Anyhow at the end he just runs to my third and almost oneshots it. Ordinary this wouldn´t happen because I would have mapcontrol but I totally forgot about it :/
http://drop.sc/164162
Greetings.
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Hello!
Currently the only thing holding me back to go to masters is my terrible early-mid game PvT.
Could you guys give me some tips on How to scout, When to scout. maybe a very stable fast expand build that includes fast double upgrades (and thus a fast TV + Storm Tech)?
Or do you guys suggest I just wait for Partings rapebuilds in GSL in a couple of days?
Cheers!
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Curious, in PvT, if there are any signs that would indicate whether the build is a 1rax marauder expand or a 2rax techlab first.
I find whenever I see early marauder I suspect pressure and prepare accordingly, but I just played vs a 1rax marauder expand and felt I ended up behind because I slowed my gasses/tech and didn't chrono probes (and subsequently lost).
I ended up getting a zealot into scout natural but wasn't til about 8 minutes ;\
thanks!
edit:
also I'm a little leery of just keeping the towers and if no push go on with tech, incase it's some sort of stim 3rax or what not.
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I literally cannot win PvZ... Don't understand the matchup whatsoever... No matter what I do the Zerg gets on 3 bases and just crushes me... or gets mutas to delay any pushes until he has BL then gg...
SO. Does anyone have a nice list of best practices for PvZ?
vs fast 3rd?
vs 2 base mass muta contain?
vs mass roach?
Roach hydra I can beat fine. But nothing else. Literally 0% win rate for that matchup. PvT and PvP are quite strong its just the Zerg macro style I can't work.
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Should I ever over saturate with probes as long as I have intentions on taking more bases, assuming I still have under 70-80 probes.
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Yes. By how much is a difficult question, but it's acceptable to do so.
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On April 22 2012 13:55 Salivanth wrote:
Yes. By how much is a difficult question, but it's acceptable to do so.
I'm imagining I'm taking my 3rd versus zerg. Maybe I have already 60+ probes. What do you think?
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United States8476 Posts
On April 22 2012 14:23 Contractor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2012 13:55 Salivanth wrote:
Yes. By how much is a difficult question, but it's acceptable to do so. I'm imagining I'm taking my 3rd versus zerg. Maybe I have already 60+ probes. What do you think?
Don't go over 60 probes before building your 3rd nexus. It's more important to spend your money to get your nexus up earlier and defend it efficiently. While your 3rd nexus is building, you can make 5 probes at each of your other nexus and shoot up to 70 probes immediately.
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On April 15 2012 21:03 Animzor wrote:I'll just post this again in because I'm desperate for help. I'm having such a hard time getting into Diamond, I've been Platinum for 6 seasons and I feel like I've made a lot of progress. I usually get to rank 1 in Platinum, then I keep getting matched up against other high rank plat players and diamond players... eventually I start losing like crazy, like 10 games in a row until I'm rank 20 or something, this makes me depressed as hell and I've quit playing a few times because of it. What I want to know is: Is there something fundamentally different about plat and diamond that I need to start practicing? because I have no idea what the hell I am supposed to do to make progress. Here are two PvZ games where I win easily. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/18621http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/18622and here are two PvT games. http://drop.sc/159851http://drop.sc/159850
Hey Animzor.
You should not be frustrated about loosing 10 in a row. These losses is
telling you a story. You should look through each game I can assure you
that by the fourth or fith loss you make stupid stupid mistakes. So maybe
take a short break for stop for the day but on to the games.
The first game I looked at was your game on shakuras plateau vs the zerg
player:
What instantly comes to mind is that you spend a lot of money on cannons
for no reason, I mean you never scouted that he was going mutalisk.
Infact you never even scouted for a third after your first swing around.
Allways check all time untill zerg speed is out after that you need
observers or some other form of scouting that zerglings can not pick off.
And the fact that when you move out with your army you have 73 supply.
When you do this most of your supply is workers you have no army
whatsoever, it is here you lack those extra minerals from those cannons.
The zerg you are playing are not really all that good. He have like no
workers when you move out, he have been supply blocked several times, and
a good zerg the ones you meet in diamond for example have 70 drones at
this poin they have 4 hatches, they are turning out roaches and they will
easily have 20-30 roaches out at this time because you have not put
pressure on.
You also bank a lot o money. Your two robos are a bit late if you detect
that he is going for the so called "Stephano" 12 min max timing push you
wil not be able to have a single immortal before he hits.
So when your zerg opponent goes for broodlords he gets smashed by you
pretty onesidedly in a single push, and you are able to get your warp
prism up, this is great for you but poor play by him. When he first
started the greater spire he produced bo corrupters what so ever it took
him a while to build up his broodlord count. Your army is a lot stronger
then his you have storms to his roach hydra mix this will crush it if he
is not careful. To make it short and more understandable if your opponent
had been smart about his comp he would have been more aggressive had more
drones and attacked more and you would not have gotten 4 bases with ease.
I can see how your build/games would crumble to more aggression.
In your game on entombed.
First Thing I note is that your warp gate is insanely if this is intended
or not I do not know, but you almost never want to get your warp gate
tech done at 10:45.
You end up sniping the third, this is great. During this game. BUT your
opponent was sloppy he had a lot of zerglings just sitting at his front
not scouting. If he....
On the other hand I stopped watching this game because I felt like I
noticed a pattern and started watching the games vs terran. Somehow you
take some easy wins with strange builds and you attack at weird timings
vs zergs. I would say: Get a plan practice it and you will find that you
know what to when your opponent does X. Try finding a build and sticking
to it instead of throwing weird things at your opponent that might or
might not be able fend it off. Also if your strangeness does not work you
loose hard.
Vs terran, you have a bit more of a plan and I like that so keep it going
and maybe fine tune it.
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Hey, im a mid master protoss (rank 25 last season with around 900 points) and im really struggling against a maxed out Terran mech army. I don't have any replays to show at this very moment, and i know, terran mech vs. P is not common at all, but one of my friends has started using mech with quite a good success. Against me, too. Any tips for the 200/200 vs 200/200 battle? Anything else besides carriers. I've tried getting mothership and so on, but the T just rolls over me with pure unit quality.
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On April 23 2012 00:56 MasaDaKing wrote:
Hey, im a mid master protoss (rank 25 last season with around 900 points) and im really struggling against a maxed out Terran mech army. I don't have any replays to show at this very moment, and i know, terran mech vs. P is not common at all, but one of my friends has started using mech with quite a good success. Against me, too. Any tips for the 200/200 vs 200/200 battle? Anything else besides carriers. I've tried getting mothership and so on, but the T just rolls over me with pure unit quality.
i love playing against mech. what you need to be really aware of is whether he is taking a 3rd or hitting a timing off of 2 base. if he's taking a 3rd, i've found 2+ robos for immortals and a few stargates for voids to force vikings, at which point you can cut them. immortal/zealot/archon with some colossus and ht comps are very good. it's important not to get too many stalkers, as they are not very cost/supply efficient compared to other stuff you can get against mech
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Hi TL! I was playing a pvz yesterday and encountered this strategy. I know how to hold the roach version of the proxy hatch, but I have no idea of the ling version with lings attacking the front.
Here is the replay: http://drop.sc/165010
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My usual opening is a FFE in all matchups
But after that I'm stuck for a follow up
Any ideas?
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On April 23 2012 10:29 TwilightHero wrote:
My usual opening is a FFE in all matchups
But after that I'm stuck for a follow up
Any ideas?
You really shouldn't be opening FFE in all matchups, only against Zerg. From there you can open up with a 4gate +1 timing to try and deny the third of the Zerg or to put pressure, open into stargate play, a fast third, etc.
There have been some Protoss players that are opening Nexus first with a Forge + Gateway followup in PvT, but even that is relatively unexplored at the moment.
FFE in PvP is an autoloss to basically any warp prism play, BlinkObs, 4gate, etc...
If you could provide some replays and background information, that'd be great!
I'd also suggest checking out this thread! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=284255
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On April 23 2012 01:01 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 00:56 MasaDaKing wrote:
Hey, im a mid master protoss (rank 25 last season with around 900 points) and im really struggling against a maxed out Terran mech army. I don't have any replays to show at this very moment, and i know, terran mech vs. P is not common at all, but one of my friends has started using mech with quite a good success. Against me, too. Any tips for the 200/200 vs 200/200 battle? Anything else besides carriers. I've tried getting mothership and so on, but the T just rolls over me with pure unit quality. i love playing against mech. what you need to be really aware of is whether he is taking a 3rd or hitting a timing off of 2 base. if he's taking a 3rd, i've found 2+ robos for immortals and a few stargates for voids to force vikings, at which point you can cut them. immortal/zealot/archon with some colossus and ht comps are very good. it's important not to get too many stalkers, as they are not very cost/supply efficient compared to other stuff you can get against mech
I am also a fan of playing vs mech. If possible get an obs so you know when he is moving out and use warp prism's with zealots to constantly harrass him every time he leaves his base. You can also snipe the tech labs on the factories as well. Try to abuse mobility before you can to the 200/200 so that when it happens you can be up in bases and have a load of WG's to resupply with.
Remember mech has to win with their one army cause the units take to long to rebuild so if you can chip away at it and then trade you are in the better position.
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Hello all! I was wondering if anyone out there has a guide or a link to a guide for protoss mechanics? similar to the Terran one on the startegy section where simple benchmarks are set and you need to hit them every time, then each lesson expands on the last?
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Does anyone have a build for the PvZ +1 zealot/void ray pressure?
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EPT
