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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. |
On March 18 2012 12:12 Kovaz wrote:
How do you deal with a zerg who takes a fast gold base as a third? I had a game today where a zerg did that to me on metalopolis, I scouted it fairly early and went for a fairly quick 4gate+stargate pressure to try to force units before he got a chance to saturate, and I eventually killed the gold base but he overwhelmed me with mass units soon after.
The main issue I had was that he could throw down 6+ spines at the gold and still be ahead. Is it better to just 1gate expand on maps with golds, or are there ways to punish it? My first thought is to do a hardcore 6gate allin, push at the gold to force a bunch of spines, but then target the main and natural, hopefully killing his natural and maybe some tech at the main if you're lucky. I'm hoping this will force him to make units early enough that the gold base doesn't really pay off, but I have no idea how well it will work.
Any thoughts?
I really think a quick stargate is needed any game you FFE. There's no way he can defend his 3rd, especially a gold, unless he has a ton of queens/creep. Unless he finishes it before your void gets there you should be fine. Can chrono a couple phoenixs to support it if he sends queens.
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I am dying so much to terran all inns lately. Its quite ridiculous. I was streaming the other day and i said for fun "Well terran, its gonna be all inn" and the chat was like after 8 minutes and ive already expanded. "No way he is going to all inn now" and guess what ? He pulls out 3 tanks, 10 scv's, 3 banshees, tons of marines and marauder into one ball of death. I see this coming and prepare for it. Im saturated on 2 bases and i should hold but its micro hell . (Ive completed starcraft master so i feel i can micro quite good for a platinum)
But its impossible. I died quite horribly. Same today, 2 of the same all inns today also. I have no clue how to break this. I force field the ramp and everything but since he got banshees and tanks he get vision and are able to attack over the force fields. This mixture is just death for protoss, especially for a normal player at platinum level.
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On March 19 2012 01:14 Avean wrote:
I am dying so much to terran all inns lately. Its quite ridiculous. I was streaming the other day and i said for fun "Well terran, its gonna be all inn" and the chat was like after 8 minutes and ive already expanded. "No way he is going to all inn now" and guess what ? He pulls out 3 tanks, 10 scv's, 3 banshees, tons of marines and marauder into one ball of death. I see this coming and prepare for it. Im saturated on 2 bases and i should hold but its micro hell . (Ive completed starcraft master so i feel i can micro quite good for a platinum)
But its impossible. I died quite horribly. Same today, 2 of the same all inns today also. I have no clue how to break this. I force field the ramp and everything but since he got banshees and tanks he get vision and are able to attack over the force fields. This mixture is just death for protoss, especially for a normal player at platinum level.
Pulling 10 scvs at that point of the game isnt really an all in, as scvs can be used to repair banshees, tanks and to build bunkers
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PvT: Do I need 3 observers against cloaked banshees?
Here's a scenario I don't quite know how to deal with. If I suspect banshees from terran I put some stalkers (2-3) in my mineral lines and rally first two observers to them (no to terran base). I'm ok with defending banshee harass, but I'm not quite sure what to do afterwards. If I chrono 3rd observer to scout terran's base I risk dying to a one base push and I often get information too late anyway. If terran skips cloak altogether that's even worse. If I skip the observer I don't know if terran is going to follow up with 1/1/1 so I need to cut probes and add gates or if he's expanding behind banshees so I can macro up.
Also I've had a game recently where terran proxied second stargate and got a hidden expo, which I didn't scout because it's difficult with banshees on the map. So I prepared for 1/1/1 only to fall bahind and not have enough AA. What do?
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United States8476 Posts
On March 19 2012 03:00 habermas wrote:
PvT: Do I need 3 observers against cloaked banshees?
Here's a scenario I don't quite know how to deal with. If I suspect banshees from terran I put some stalkers (2-3) in my mineral lines and rally first two observers to them (no to terran base). I'm ok with defending banshee harass, but I'm not quite sure what to do afterwards. If I chrono 3rd observer to scout terran's base I risk dying to a one base push and I often get information too late anyway. If terran skips cloak altogether that's even worse. If I skip the observer I don't know if terran is going to follow up with 1/1/1 so I need to cut probes and add gates or if he's expanding behind banshees so I can macro up.
Also I've had a game recently where terran proxied second stargate and got a hidden expo, which I didn't scout because it's difficult with banshees on the map. So I prepared for 1/1/1 only to fall bahind and not have enough AA. What do?
First observer goes to your opponent's base. 2nd obs goes to your guess of which base a cloaked banshee would go to. Only make a 3rd obs if you confirm cloak.
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On March 19 2012 01:14 Avean wrote:
I am dying so much to terran all inns lately. Its quite ridiculous. I was streaming the other day and i said for fun "Well terran, its gonna be all inn" and the chat was like after 8 minutes and ive already expanded. "No way he is going to all inn now" and guess what ? He pulls out 3 tanks, 10 scv's, 3 banshees, tons of marines and marauder into one ball of death. I see this coming and prepare for it. Im saturated on 2 bases and i should hold but its micro hell . (Ive completed starcraft master so i feel i can micro quite good for a platinum)
But its impossible. I died quite horribly. Same today, 2 of the same all inns today also. I have no clue how to break this. I force field the ramp and everything but since he got banshees and tanks he get vision and are able to attack over the force fields. This mixture is just death for protoss, especially for a normal player at platinum level.
There is no way he had all that at 8 minutes. Marine/Tank or Marine/Banshee can hit at 8 minutes assuming they dont harass with hellions. Marine/tank/banshee can hit at 10 minutes. Marine/tank/banshee/marauder isnt really used but it would hit even later than 10 minutes.
Anyway, if your zealot poke (at around 5:30) doesnt reveal marauders or considerable evidence of marauders then you need to add a robo immediatly and get an observer to their base, with a second observer staying at home. Identify their one base composition to work out when they can hit by. Cut probes and begin extra gateways at least 1 minute before they can attack you.
The only one that this cant stop is good marine/banshee, but I should make a post about that myself as I dont actually know how to stop it.
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As per my comment in the above reply...
How do you beat one base marine banshee play that moves out at 7:30 or so? To be specific, we are talking 3 banshees with no cloak and quad marine production. All SCVs pulled ofcourse.
I am unsure of when to cut probes. It isnt a problem on something like close air shattered as you can scout the build in time to cut probes. But on a larger map my observer off of 1G expand into 3G robo wont get to their base until they are moving out and this does not give me time to get extra gateways up. Even if I did know in time, is cutting probes at 7 minutes (30 probes?) really the only way? I suppose if you have to sacrifice your expansion anyway it doesnt matter.
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On March 19 2012 04:48 hzflank wrote:
As per my comment in the above reply...
How do you beat one base marine banshee play that moves out at 7:30 or so? To be specific, we are talking 3 banshees with no cloak and quad marine production. All SCVs pulled ofcourse.
I am unsure of when to cut probes. It isnt a problem on something like close air shattered as you can scout the build in time to cut probes. But on a larger map my observer off of 1G expand into 3G robo wont get to their base until they are moving out and this does not give me time to get extra gateways up. Even if I did know in time, is cutting probes at 7 minutes (30 probes?) really the only way? I suppose if you have to sacrifice your expansion anyway it doesnt matter.
Your observer shouldn't be that late at all. But really you should be able to deduce 1 base play with constant poking and vigilant scouting.
I don't think I've ever played against marine/banshee, but you should be able to beat that with good forcefields and chronos on your gateways. You need more probes than 30 I believe...
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Hey ive been struggling against 2 rax (tech lab and reactor). Once I get my 3 gates up (off a 1 gate expand) what should my unit comp be? Off a gas opening I go for a zealot-stalker-stalker-sentry (for guardian shield) then warp in 2 stalkers and a zealot to push.
4 stalkers - 2 zealots - 1 sentry
I try and target down the marauders first then clean up the marines but am having trouble. Is this a good unit comp? I also pull probes if necessary.
Also on a side note; is it safe for me to go zealot, stalker, expand, stalker against a gas opening? or should I get both stalkers out before I throw down the expo?
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This has been really frustrating me the past two days. Most of the zergs I have faced against have done roach/ling all-in against my FFE. I typically like to go with 7 gate for a +2 blink stalker push with some sentries for FFs. Though they hit before this, and I'm unaware of it. Should I be cutting some gates or blink for the robo and observer to scout for this? I did this build against a roach/ling all-in on Metalopolis in one game, and barely held it off because my watch tower saw his army moving in, so I built a lot of cannons at my natural. But he ran by to my main and killed all my probes. I'm not sure how to follow up in that situation either. If you want a replay of that one, I'd be glad to upload it.
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On March 19 2012 05:14 Sovano wrote:
This has been really frustrating me the past two days. Most of the zergs I have faced against have done roach/ling all-in against my FFE. I typically like to go with 7 gate for a +2 blink stalker push with some sentries for FFs. Though they hit before this, and I'm unaware of it. Should I be cutting some gates or blink for the robo and observer to scout for this? I did this build against a roach/ling all-in on Metalopolis in one game, and barely held it off because my watch tower saw his army moving in, so I built a lot of cannons at my natural. But he ran by to my main and killed all my probes. I'm not sure how to follow up in that situation either. If you want a replay of that one, I'd be glad to upload it.
When you FFE, get early double gas. Gas is crucial to protoss. But you cant make 4 gas all at once or your mineral counts gonna be too low. So start with two gas and get the 3rd and 4th as you tech. I would suggest 3-4 gate and tech to robo. Make sentries to slow down attacks, and force fiels to block roaches from attacking the cannons.
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On March 19 2012 05:07 LeakyBucket wrote:
Hey ive been struggling against 2 rax (tech lab and reactor). Once I get my 3 gates up (off a 1 gate expand) what should my unit comp be? Off a gas opening I go for a zealot-stalker-stalker-sentry (for guardian shield) then warp in 2 stalkers and a zealot to push.
4 stalkers - 2 zealots - 1 sentry
I try and target down the marauders first then clean up the marines but am having trouble. Is this a good unit comp? I also pull probes if necessary.
Also on a side note; is it safe for me to go zealot, stalker, expand, stalker against a gas opening? or should I get both stalkers out before I throw down the expo?
Invest all Chrono boosts warp tech instead of stalker cause they wont attack till later. Leave your army in your main, your nexus isnt gonna die that fast wait till your army is big enough to kill his. To know if hes attacking or if hes two raxing simply have your stalker by the xelnaga tower. Terran cant take it until they have a marauder
Also if they two rax theyll go fast medivac drops. You can either go blink and defend or push early since theyll only be supported by two raxs they cant defend well.
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On March 19 2012 05:07 LeakyBucket wrote:
Hey ive been struggling against 2 rax (tech lab and reactor). Once I get my 3 gates up (off a 1 gate expand) what should my unit comp be? Off a gas opening I go for a zealot-stalker-stalker-sentry (for guardian shield) then warp in 2 stalkers and a zealot to push.
4 stalkers - 2 zealots - 1 sentry
I try and target down the marauders first then clean up the marines but am having trouble. Is this a good unit comp? I also pull probes if necessary.
Also on a side note; is it safe for me to go zealot, stalker, expand, stalker against a gas opening? or should I get both stalkers out before I throw down the expo?
Any 7 units will put you ahead of a 2 rax since your expansion is a lot earlier. I tend to go 1 zealot 6 stalkers (or even 1 zealot 5 stalkers if i lose the first zealot scouting). I focus down the 2 marauders with stalkers then I can micro vs the marines. Even if i lose a zealot and 2 stalkers, and take damage on the other stalkers, I still consider myself ahead. As long as you dont engage until you have at least 6 units then you dont need to pull probes unless they bring more than 2 scvs.
Going zealot stalker expand means you can skip the third pylon and get the expansion up a lot sooner. I dont recommend it though as I personally cant do it while making 4 units then lining up my warpgate and extra gateways (which you need to do vs a gas opening). The other thing with having 2 stalkers out (and a later nexus) is that you might be able to deny them scouting the nexus. This forces them to make some sort of attack as they need to confirm your expansion. Letting the scv see the expansion gives them the option of not attacking with their 2 rax and you want them to attack so you can trade and keep the numbers down on your terms / defensive position.
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On March 19 2012 05:14 Sovano wrote:
This has been really frustrating me the past two days. Most of the zergs I have faced against have done roach/ling all-in against my FFE. I typically like to go with 7 gate for a +2 blink stalker push with some sentries for FFs. Though they hit before this, and I'm unaware of it. Should I be cutting some gates or blink for the robo and observer to scout for this? I did this build against a roach/ling all-in on Metalopolis in one game, and barely held it off because my watch tower saw his army moving in, so I built a lot of cannons at my natural. But he ran by to my main and killed all my probes. I'm not sure how to follow up in that situation either. If you want a replay of that one, I'd be glad to upload it.
you need to scout the roachling allin coming. on your first scout if you see early gas stash the probe somewhere then check back in about 1.15 mins for a roach warren. as soon as you see this drop ~5 cannons at your natural. he shouldnt be able to get to your main through the ramp. you can have a sentry by this time to FF ramp or 3 zealots holding position in a line. if all else fails, 3 pylon block the top of your own ramp so he cant get in. anything to buy you time.
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I tried this "Bischu Anti 4-Gate" build (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Bischu_Anti-4Gate_%28vs._Protoss%29), but I can't defend a 4 Gate with only 2 Gates.
Does the "@150 minerals Gateway (2)" mean that I add the second Gateway or do I add two Gateways?
Moreover does anyone know how many chronoboosts I should spend on warpgate research?
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On March 20 2012 03:14 solid.PhanT wrote:
I tried this "Bischu Anti 4-Gate" build (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Bischu_Anti-4Gate_%28vs._Protoss%29), but I can't defend a 4 Gate with only 2 Gates.
Does the "@150 minerals Gateway (2)" mean that I add the second Gateway or do I add two Gateways?
Moreover does anyone know how many chronoboosts I should spend on warpgate research?
From the way the liquipedia page is written and the provided VOD, it looks like your chronoboosts are spent on the nexus until your robo finishes, than spent solely on immortals. Don't spend any chrono's on warpgate. It means that you add a second gateway, but the build recommends throwing down a 3rd gateway if the micro is too intensive for the player. He also recommends the 3rd gate when you play against people who delay the 4 gate for extra warp-ins.
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What is the best way to use blink stalkers? Harass him and expand because you will have map control? That is what I've been doing, and I was just curious if that was the thing to do. For PvZ is stragate viable for someone in the gold leage? I hate doing two base all ins.
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Hey guys! My Terran friend and I are both plat. When we play against eachother he almost never has more than 50 SCVs and his army is always freaking huge in comparison to mine. Should this be viable? Is it an all in? How can I defend myself from this and still continue making probes until I hit something around 70 of them?
Thanks!
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Northern Ireland26603 Posts
On March 21 2012 07:15 Nible wrote:
Hey guys! My Terran friend and I are both plat. When we play against eachother he almost never has more than 50 SCVs and his army is always freaking huge in comparison to mine. Should this be viable? Is it an all in? How can I defend myself from this and still continue making probes until I hit something around 70 of them?
Thanks!
Sorry, need a bit more information really. I mean does he take a third and plug the income gap with mules while cutting SCVs, do you skimp on units to tech really greedily? Etc etc etc. There are too many variables that you'd need to put in your post before it's really possible to give you decent advice.
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On March 21 2012 07:11 Ksquared wrote:
What is the best way to use blink stalkers? Harass him and expand because you will have map control? That is what I've been doing, and I was just curious if that was the thing to do. For PvZ is stragate viable for someone in the gold leage? I hate doing two base all ins.
Your first question about Blink Stalkers depends on the match up you're playing, and if you have map control already or not. Really the two things that will be expected you to do is harass to help get or maintain map control, and to help keep stalkers alive in engagements.
Second question, PvZ FFE into stargate is always a viable option but don't expect amazing results right away because you'll need to have the APM to not get behind in your economy and macro while using the phoenix and voidrays. The more you make the more damage you'll need to do or you'll get further behind. I suggest checking out Artosis' timing push with +1 zealots, phoenix, and a voidray off a FFE. It's not an all-in by any means, but it can be very strong while denying the 3rd and possibley doing a ton of damage to the zerg's economy. I believe he had a bunch of games on his stream doing it, so i'd check out his youtube.
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