On March 15 2012 13:04 IamPryda wrote: are any other protoss finding korhal compound to be extermely zerg favored i find that a 7 gate all in is really the only way to play this map. any time i i build a robo mutas pop out no matter whats going on in the game and poof you lose to mass expand becasue its impossible to move out because u wont win a base trade and u cant defend your third and your main because of the distance. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/18355 advice on what i should have done different?
veto korhal. nat-3rd the amount of space you have to cover is stupid.. it's not a map balanced for pvz past 2 bases for P
So I was watching the Genius vs Dongraegu games from the last GSL, trying to steal genius's timings and I came across something that I'm not sure why he does. He seems to save up enough minerals to go nexus first on 17 supply, but then builds his forge first anyway. Doesn't this just make you more vulnerable to something like a 6/7/8 pool for no reason? You'd still get the nexus down at the same time if you went 14 forge 17 nexus wouldn't you?
On March 15 2012 14:02 Kovaz wrote: So I was watching the Genius vs Dongraegu games from the last GSL, trying to steal genius's timings and I came across something that I'm not sure why he does. He seems to save up enough minerals to go nexus first on 17 supply, but then builds his forge first anyway. Doesn't this just make you more vulnerable to something like a 6/7/8 pool for no reason? You'd still get the nexus down at the same time if you went 14 forge 17 nexus wouldn't you?
i'm not a huge fan of nexus first unless you scout first and see hatch first or gas-pool in 14/14 before or at your own 14 food
Only explanation I can come up with is he wants to go nexus first, but unless he scouts hatch first he drops the forge to be safe against pool first. Personally I always go 14 forge 17 nexus, but I feel like there has to be a reason if a GSL finalist is doing it that way.
Only explanation I can come up with is he wants to go nexus first, but unless he scouts hatch first he drops the forge to be safe against pool first. Personally I always go 14 forge 17 nexus, but I feel like there has to be a reason if a GSL finalist is doing it that way.
I think the factor here is that he knows DRG personally and maybe sometimes DRG goes for hatchery first on ZvP, so Genius wants to be able to compete with this
Only explanation I can come up with is he wants to go nexus first, but unless he scouts hatch first he drops the forge to be safe against pool first. Personally I always go 14 forge 17 nexus, but I feel like there has to be a reason if a GSL finalist is doing it that way.
I think the factor here is that he knows DRG personally and maybe sometimes DRG goes for hatchery first on ZvP, so Genius wants to be able to compete with this
I think the main reason is the map: Daybreak. I think nexus first is reasonably safe on Daybreak.
Only explanation I can come up with is he wants to go nexus first, but unless he scouts hatch first he drops the forge to be safe against pool first. Personally I always go 14 forge 17 nexus, but I feel like there has to be a reason if a GSL finalist is doing it that way.
I think the factor here is that he knows DRG personally and maybe sometimes DRG goes for hatchery first on ZvP, so Genius wants to be able to compete with this
I think the main reason is the map: Daybreak. I think nexus first is reasonably safe on Daybreak.
thats no explanation why he is saving up minerals for a nexus and then throwing down a forge...
I've been seeing stargate play getting more popular (1 void 5 phoenix) into 4 gate robo and take a 3rd shortly after. I am still going +1 4 gate timing on the third and expanding behind that. Is the stargate opening strong than a +1 4 gate timing or is it just based on preference because it seems like opening this style of stargate lets to force zergs tech a bit and you can get good scouting with phoenix whereas most time with the +1 4 gate opening I'm just accounting for everything till i get the obs in their base. also if someone could supply me with the gas timings that would be awesome (since all the reps i watch protoss gets gasses at slightly different times) :D
Hey guys. I'm still getting crushed by 2 rax when using MC's 1 gate FE and it's just... stupidly annoying. Here's a replay. Is my build wrong? I don't know, I can't defend that crap. The push always comes JUST before warp in. Any help would be much appreciated...
On March 16 2012 02:00 iNbluE wrote: Hey guys. I'm still getting crushed by 2 rax when using MC's 1 gate FE and it's just... stupidly annoying. Here's a replay. Is my build wrong? I don't know, I can't defend that crap. The push always comes JUST before warp in. Any help would be much appreciated...
You only use 2 cbs on nexus. You have a lot of tiny inefficiencies like small probe cuts that delay your entire build. You skip your 2nd stalker for a long time. Just generally you store your cb too much and don't use it efficiently. You don't push when you see 4 marines on low ground for some reason. Shells doesn't finish until 5:15 at the very earliest. You don't keep control of the tower to see the timing of his push, to see how many scvs he brings, and so you can kite if his marines/scvs are too far forward. Your 2nd/3rd gates are late by about 10 seconds. You need a pylon at your ramp to directly warpin your first round of units. You need to pull an appropriate amount of probes. You should have 4 stalkers, not 3 by the time warpgates finish.
On March 15 2012 14:02 Kovaz wrote: So I was watching the Genius vs Dongraegu games from the last GSL, trying to steal genius's timings and I came across something that I'm not sure why he does. He seems to save up enough minerals to go nexus first on 17 supply, but then builds his forge first anyway. Doesn't this just make you more vulnerable to something like a 6/7/8 pool for no reason? You'd still get the nexus down at the same time if you went 14 forge 17 nexus wouldn't you?
He saves his money at the possibility of getting a nexus first. when he scouts that he cant get away with it he drops the forge. if you are getting 6-7 pooled you will need to build the cannon in your main regardless and the forge will finish in time for that because he has it timed out like that. He losses nothing vs a 10-11 pool because he can still wall off in time.
On March 15 2012 14:02 Kovaz wrote: So I was watching the Genius vs Dongraegu games from the last GSL, trying to steal genius's timings and I came across something that I'm not sure why he does. He seems to save up enough minerals to go nexus first on 17 supply, but then builds his forge first anyway. Doesn't this just make you more vulnerable to something like a 6/7/8 pool for no reason? You'd still get the nexus down at the same time if you went 14 forge 17 nexus wouldn't you?
He saves his money at the possibility of getting a nexus first. when he scouts that he cant get away with it he drops the forge. if you are getting 6-7 pooled you will need to build the cannon in your main regardless and the forge will finish in time for that because he has it timed out like that. He losses nothing vs a 10-11 pool because he can still wall off in time.
Yeah that makes sense. I'm curious then why the common trend is to go 14 forge when a 17 forge can still hold anything, but still leave nexus first as a possibility. Is it just for the threat of cannon rushing a hatch first? Also, if you could choose, is it better economically for toss to go nexus first against hatch first, or forge first but force pool first?
On March 16 2012 01:15 Takeodesu wrote: I've been seeing stargate play getting more popular (1 void 5 phoenix) into 4 gate robo and take a 3rd shortly after. I am still going +1 4 gate timing on the third and expanding behind that. Is the stargate opening strong than a +1 4 gate timing or is it just based on preference because it seems like opening this style of stargate lets to force zergs tech a bit and you can get good scouting with phoenix whereas most time with the +1 4 gate opening I'm just accounting for everything till i get the obs in their base. also if someone could supply me with the gas timings that would be awesome (since all the reps i watch protoss gets gasses at slightly different times) :D
anybody know where I could find a set of replays or vods for robo PvP. as for entombed valley and shakuras I feel colossi is the way to go but I'm unsure as to how to get to that point as I don't usually play robo. I have a very poor idea of when I can expand, in what situations should I follow my opponents expansion or just go kill him, when I cut immortals to start making colossi etc.
On March 16 2012 07:01 ThePianoDentist wrote: anybody know where I could find a set of replays or vods for robo PvP. as for entombed valley and shakuras I feel colossi is the way to go but I'm unsure as to how to get to that point as I don't usually play robo. I have a very poor idea of when I can expand, in what situations should I follow my opponents expansion or just go kill him, when I cut immortals to start making colossi etc.
When opening immortal expand or robo blink, generally go colossus when he expands afaik. Being up against a 1base guy and investing in colossus is very greedy and easy to punish.
On March 15 2012 14:02 Kovaz wrote: So I was watching the Genius vs Dongraegu games from the last GSL, trying to steal genius's timings and I came across something that I'm not sure why he does. He seems to save up enough minerals to go nexus first on 17 supply, but then builds his forge first anyway. Doesn't this just make you more vulnerable to something like a 6/7/8 pool for no reason? You'd still get the nexus down at the same time if you went 14 forge 17 nexus wouldn't you?
He also saves some mining time for the probe running up and down. His build is mineral-intensive between gate-stargate.
Are or when are void rays effective in PvP? I realize the usual late game PvP is mass collosi, but I'm not sure how to respond to void rays or if that is effective against void rays.
http://drop.sc/134671 Plat toss. This game in particular I expand and go into collosi and he goes into stargate which I notice but don't respond. We have a somewhat even engagement except I lose most of my collosi and then I have a bad engagement and lose everything. In hindsight I probably should not have been offensive against chargelots and should have went home and played defensive for the rest of the game. I got greedy and wanted to kill his third, but even so I felt like his immortal/void ray was too effective. For this game in particular, I know I had a probe deficit, but even so I'm curious as to how I should have responded. He went archon/void ray early in the game so I probably should have engaged sooner though I was scared of engaging chargelots.
In general I don't face a lot of void rays so I'm unsure how to deal with them, if I should continue collosus production, or when going void rays leave the player most vulnerable/powerful.
On March 16 2012 02:00 iNbluE wrote: Hey guys. I'm still getting crushed by 2 rax when using MC's 1 gate FE and it's just... stupidly annoying. Here's a replay. Is my build wrong? I don't know, I can't defend that crap. The push always comes JUST before warp in. Any help would be much appreciated...
Does anyone have a reliable method for cannon-rushing hatch first Zergs? I'm starting to play some Koreans who hatch first with a drone and overlord patrolling for cannons, I'm not seeing the "build order win" that people claim.
On March 16 2012 02:00 iNbluE wrote: Hey guys. I'm still getting crushed by 2 rax when using MC's 1 gate FE and it's just... stupidly annoying. Here's a replay. Is my build wrong? I don't know, I can't defend that crap. The push always comes JUST before warp in. Any help would be much appreciated...
EPT
