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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. |
On March 13 2012 03:42 vision810 wrote:
I've got a question regarding cannon rushing on metalopolis, or rather defending a cannon rush.
My problem on this map is that his first cannon is in range of my mineral line, so when i scout on 12, and scout him second, its too late to react. And even if i catch him building a pylon on the lowground, my forge (and thus my first cannon) will finish later than his, so he gets his cannon up and can kill half my mineral line. How can I deal with this without losing my mineral line?
Take 3 probes and put them on hold position in the place where he wants to build his cannons. When he is forced to cannon away from the wall, take another 4 probes and kill the cannons before they build.
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My PvP is terrible and right now i've just been losing to 1 base colossus all ins really, how would i stop it because usually i go for 3gate robo and then expand and they go in with their army with 1 or two colossi and just stomp me. I try to get immortals out or anything really but i still lose, help?
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On March 13 2012 12:18 Eliwood5837 wrote:
My PvP is terrible and right now i've just been losing to 1 base colossus all ins really, how would i stop it because usually i go for 3gate robo and then expand and they go in with their army with 1 or two colossi and just stomp me. I try to get immortals out or anything really but i still lose, help?
Try Immortal/Voidray next time you see it coming (you're getting an Obs right?).
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On March 13 2012 12:19 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 12:18 Eliwood5837 wrote:
My PvP is terrible and right now i've just been losing to 1 base colossus all ins really, how would i stop it because usually i go for 3gate robo and then expand and they go in with their army with 1 or two colossi and just stomp me. I try to get immortals out or anything really but i still lose, help? Try Immortal/Voidray next time you see it coming (you're getting an Obs right?).
Hmm ok but so i would just have to wait to see what he has then decide what to get after robo? Also i've never really messed around with stargate play in PvP
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On March 13 2012 12:36 Eliwood5837 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 12:19 CecilSunkure wrote:On March 13 2012 12:18 Eliwood5837 wrote:
My PvP is terrible and right now i've just been losing to 1 base colossus all ins really, how would i stop it because usually i go for 3gate robo and then expand and they go in with their army with 1 or two colossi and just stomp me. I try to get immortals out or anything really but i still lose, help? Try Immortal/Voidray next time you see it coming (you're getting an Obs right?). Hmm ok but so i would just have to wait to see what he has then decide what to get after robo? Also i've never really messed around with stargate play in PvP
Yeah, chrono out an Observer or two and check out what tech he has. You can try making a Stargate and chronoing out a lot of Immortals/Voidrays if you see he's going 1 base Colossus. Just be sure to engage in an open area near a proxy pylon. Focus his Colossus down first with your Voidray/Immortal.
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On March 13 2012 12:18 Eliwood5837 wrote:
My PvP is terrible and right now i've just been losing to 1 base colossus all ins really, how would i stop it because usually i go for 3gate robo and then expand and they go in with their army with 1 or two colossi and just stomp me. I try to get immortals out or anything really but i still lose, help?
I only recently started to really understand PvP, so I know how you feel.
If you expand before your opponent, you have to know what buildings he has (how many gateways is usually key). You need to judge when he will attack based on this, and cut probes before he moves out. Think of it like holding a terran 1/1/1: you have to cut probes early and throw up extra gateways before he attacks.
The other thing is: Do not fight with two-base mass stalkers, ever. If you go blink then you are doing it early to use the mobility. When it comes to creating an army for a head on fight you do not want to warp in any stalkers. One or two sentries for guardian shield and then all zealots (plus however many stalkers you have leftover from the early game). Spend your gas on robo/stargate units, archons or upgrades (forges, charge). If you are on two bases to one then all you really need is for his zealots to all die before yours do so that he has to retreat with his colossus, and when it comes to reinforcing you should be on at least 2 more production buildings than he is.
The reason that the previously mentioned voidray/immortal will work well is that he wont have many stalkers if he gets colossus range upgrade. Target your voids on his colossus and just hotkey your immortals to a group and shift click them through the stalkers. If he has skipped colossus range for enough stalkers to deal with voids then the immortals can just target the colossus instead.
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PvT on Cloud Kingdom
http://drop.sc/131089
I get an amazing scout in. I figure double gas with 3 Rax will just lead to some pressure with a Medivac later. However, I just get completely rolled over with Stim and Marauder > Stalker. My rationale behind the Robo was to be able to get Immortals/Colossus so I could contend with the Medivac 1 Base, but he just did 3 rax no support and kept on attacking. Do I even fight at the ramp? Was my unit comp right? Should I have held off the Robo to make more gateway units? Barring micro issues (the fight wasn't even close enough for that to be an issue), what am I supposed to do in that situation?
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On March 13 2012 16:42 Supah wrote:PvT on Cloud Kingdom http://drop.sc/131089I get an amazing scout in. I figure double gas with 3 Rax will just lead to some pressure with a Medivac later. However, I just get completely rolled over with Stim and Marauder > Stalker. My rationale behind the Robo was to be able to get Immortals/Colossus so I could contend with the Medivac 1 Base, but he just did 3 rax no support and kept on attacking. Do I even fight at the ramp? Was my unit comp right? Should I have held off the Robo to make more gateway units? Barring micro issues (the fight wasn't even close enough for that to be an issue), what am I supposed to do in that situation?
I dont mean to be rude but your opening was really bad. You need to have your gateways finish in time for warpgate.
Dont engage until you have your first warpin so that you have 7 units, then chrono your gates. I would not bother with robo vs a 3 rax, just focus all your chrono on your 3 gates and keep making probes. After your first 6 stalkers swap into only zealots and sentries. Once you have a fight where you trap him and kill everything, throw down 2 forges and your opponent should never get back in the game.
Edit, his attack came at a weird time where you could of done a second warpin before engaging.
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what is the ideal composition vs. pure mass roach?
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On March 14 2012 04:11 snively wrote:
what is the ideal composition vs. pure mass roach?
Well, if you are both maxed I find that highly unlikely but whatever.
First, before you get maxed you want: immortal, sentry, stalker. Use the sentries to forceifeld him obviously and have your immortals go to town.
Later on when you have enough immortals say 5-6, add colossus. If you lose the sentries don't forget to remake them at any point in the game (except when you have a critical amount of colossi). Forcefields are what will keep you alive.
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What is the deal with Titan's PvZ, his PvZ is impressive but he uses weird expanding build: pylon gateway in main, no block chrono few zealots then nexus before forge or cybernetics core, do you guys think this is better than FFE?
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Sorry if I'm beating a topic dead, I couldn't find any appropriate threads using the search function and I'm not sure how to search just through one thread. Are there any thorough guides on what different scouted info means in PvX and also just scouting techniques?
Example: Seeing a terran get gas before your probe is forced out and your second scout/poke sights a bunch of marines, so you know a 1-1-1 is most likely coming.
I feel like a lot of these are comon sense, but it'd help to have a guide or something to read to help reinforce the knowledge or help as a reference while playing.
Thanks!
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On March 15 2012 04:48 Gessen wrote:
Sorry if I'm beatting a topic dead, I couldn't find any appropriate threads using the search function and I'm not sure how to search just through one thread. Are there any thorough guides on what different scouted info means in PvX and also just scouting techniques?
Example: Seeing a terran get gas before your probe is forced out and your second scout/poke sights a bunch of marines, so you know a 1-1-1 is most likely coming.
I feel like a lot of these are comon sense, but it'd help to have a guide or something to read to help reinforce the knowledge or help as a reference while playing.
Thanks!
The scouting techinique would be crossing off things what he cant do, like see no gas= not fast cloacked banshees.
Very fast third, cant be any heavy aggression things like that.
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PVP
I go for 2 gate 3 stalker and see opponent does 4 gate. I stop 3rd stalker for a sentry. He never push up into my main. I transition into robo get get quick collosus. Is this a good idea?
My economy will be better than his and collosus will destroy any Gw units.
Also, What should I do against blink? If he contains me with sentries and goes for quick blink, are collosus a good choice? and in this case, when does blink usually hit? Thanks
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Italy12246 Posts
On March 15 2012 04:48 Gessen wrote:
Sorry if I'm beating a topic dead, I couldn't find any appropriate threads using the search function and I'm not sure how to search just through one thread. Are there any thorough guides on what different scouted info means in PvX and also just scouting techniques?
Example: Seeing a terran get gas before your probe is forced out and your second scout/poke sights a bunch of marines, so you know a 1-1-1 is most likely coming.
I feel like a lot of these are comon sense, but it'd help to have a guide or something to read to help reinforce the knowledge or help as a reference while playing.
Thanks!
PvT, look up the guide my NrGMonk about mc's 1gate FE. It's in the stickied section.
PvP, you are looking for timing of the second gas and chronoboost usage. If he uses more than 2 chronos on probes, then probably a 4gate isn't coming. Second gas means faster tech, but if he has chrono saved up he can still 4gate so be careful. After the 4gate phase is done (6ish minutes) you can poke up his ramp with a probe. Mass stalkers (5+) means a blink build (either robo blink or straight blink) is more likely, 2 or more zealots means gas heavy tech is more likely (dt, phoenix, or colossus).
PvZ, look for his gas timing. If he takes it after 3.50-4.00 ish it's highly unlikely that he's doing any kind of bust, otherwise you should be a bit careful, especially if you are going to ffe. After a speedling opening, no natural after 4.00-4.20 ish means he's definitely trying to bust (roach rush is very common in lower leagues against basically anything, including gateway expands), so play super careful with either more cannons, or a 2gate stargate opening. If you did go ffe, no third at 5-6 minutes signals 2base play, either fast muta, fast infestors or hydra/ling. A nydus allin or 2base bust with either ling/baneling (highly unlikely) or some kind of roach play is also possible, but i'd say it's slightly less likely.
That's all i can remember off the top of my head for now 
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On March 15 2012 05:08 CommanchyWattkins wrote:
PVP
I go for 2 gate 3 stalker and see opponent does 4 gate. I stop 3rd stalker for a sentry. He never push up into my main. I transition into robo get get quick collosus. Is this a good idea?
My economy will be better than his and collosus will destroy any Gw units.
Also, What should I do against blink? If he contains me with sentries and goes for quick blink, are collosus a good choice? and in this case, when does blink usually hit? Thanks
uh, u dont stop your 3rd stalker for a sentry against a 4 gate. If he continues with the 4 gate your going to die. You need 3 stalkers to deny his probe and be able to take his zealot stalker head on. You need to delay the 4 gate while you get your gates/tech up and have your WG finish.
A quick colossus wont necessarily kill him either. If you blindly go colossus your risking that he doesnt go phoenix because phoenix builds are really really good against colossus rush builds. If he goes for blink and hes containing you, colossus is a good choice because you need something to break the forcefield as you force your way down your ramp. Be careful on your army composition against a blink build thats containing you to one base, you need the colossus to break the forcefield but you should be devoting most of your resources into immortals with zealot stalker support, should have a sentry or two for guardian shield. If you completely focus on colossus, all your gona have left over are zealots and blink stalker vs colossus zealot isnt fun for the colossus player. Your zealots will never hit the stalkers while the stalkers prance around taking pot shots at the colossus.
Blink timings............ i dont know concrete timings, but im assuming you mean like a quick twilight council in which case, if your going fast robo, his blink will finish when you have one immortal out. If its after a failed 4 gate, his blink wont finish until like maybe 9:00 or over. I forget how long it takes to make the twilight council but the actual blink research takes 140 seconds.
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Personally, I like having a sentry in my army early because it can be the difference between life and death in pvp. The sentry helps keep me alive while get the immortal and stalkers up to defend a 4gate. I do the standard 3gate robo opening into two base colossus unless they go pheonix which I go blink instead. I rarely lose to 4gates because I use two stalkers in the early constantly scouting for pylons and poking the ramp while the sentry stays building energy for the push if thats the dudes plan.
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March 15 2012 02:32 Roynalf wrote:
What is the deal with Titan's PvZ, his PvZ is impressive but he uses weird expanding build: pylon gateway in main, no block chrono few zealots then nexus before forge or cybernetics core, do you guys think this is better than FFE?
I'm tempted to say it's a tactic to counter ling pushes when the zerg assumes you're FFE. But in terms of keeping up with economy, FFE is your best bet. 3 zealots = 2 cannons, in terms of costs, so it's like you're getting 2 cannons before throwing a nexus down.
As for whether it's better or not, it really depends on what you want to accomplish. If it's to hold off an early push, or you want to put pressure on the opponent faster than normal, than maybe it works better. If you're looking to be more defensive to get your economy up, FFE would be the better choice.
On March 15 2012 04:48 Gessen wrote:
Sorry if I'm beating a topic dead, I couldn't find any appropriate threads using the search function and I'm not sure how to search just through one thread. Are there any thorough guides on what different scouted info means in PvX and also just scouting techniques?
Example: Seeing a terran get gas before your probe is forced out and your second scout/poke sights a bunch of marines, so you know a 1-1-1 is most likely coming.
I feel like a lot of these are comon sense, but it'd help to have a guide or something to read to help reinforce the knowledge or help as a reference while playing.
Thanks!
This thread might help, but the original post itself was a question and not a guide so you'll have to scroll through to find more results.
The thread summarizes a few common scouts to note. It goes over gas scouting (no gas, 100 gas mined, 100+ gas, 2 gas). They also suggest how to scout with either a probe or a zealot. They also bring mention to scouting twice, once early to check for expos/pools, and once around the 5 minute mark to check for gas/tech/additional expos. This is specifically for PvZ.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298784
For PvT, this thread will help, but again it's the same as the previous thread in that the topic is a question and not a guide. It covers similar topics and how to's, similar to the PvZ thread.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=245018
For PvP, this thread discusses scouting a proxy gate, but the nature and order of scouting is not unreasonable. Another question thread, and answers are throughout
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=271900
Hope these help. Cheers!
EDIT: If these aren't helpful, just do a general search for 'scout' across all forums. That's where I found these threads from.
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are any other protoss finding korhal compound to be extermely zerg favored i find that a 7 gate all in is really the only way to play this map. any time i i build a robo mutas pop out no matter whats going on in the game and poof you lose to mass expand becasue its impossible to move out because u wont win a base trade and u cant defend your third and your main because of the distance. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/18355 advice on what i should have done different?
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On March 15 2012 13:04 IamPryda wrote:are any other protoss finding korhal compound to be extermely zerg favored i find that a 7 gate all in is really the only way to play this map. any time i i build a robo mutas pop out no matter whats going on in the game and poof you lose to mass expand becasue its impossible to move out because u wont win a base trade and u cant defend your third and your main because of the distance. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/18355 advice on what i should have done different?
Placing a few cannons at your mineral line would have bought enough time for you to defend and teching to blink stalkers would really help, go tech templars and if he still keeps pumping out mutas just storm the muta cloud till it withers to the ground
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EPT
