EPTIf you are 3 gate expanding you should be to just outmass with pretty much any unit comp.
The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 205
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
If you are 3 gate expanding you should be to just outmass with pretty much any unit comp. | ||
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
On March 09 2012 17:48 NrGmonk wrote: It's not viable at all if your opponent knows the correct response. So maybe high masters+. aaah don't leave us hanging what's the correct response?  this the 50 gas all zealot one? is it just chronoing units out of 2 gates and treating it like a 2 gate proxy zealot rush | ||
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Enright
9 Posts
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On March 10 2012 00:40 ThePianoDentist wrote: aaah don't leave us hanging what's the correct response? this the 50 gas all zealot one? is it just chronoing units out of 2 gates and treating it like a 2 gate proxy zealot rush Yes a korean 4 gate is the 50 gas all zealot one. The way to counter it is to not spend any chrono on warpgate research until you have scouted your opponent. The korean 4 gate is easily scoutable as it goes 8 gate 12 core and pulls probes off of gas. Once you have scouted it, spend all chronoboost on your gateway. He can build 3 pylons before his warpgate finishes, maybe 4 if he doesnt want to warp in a full round of zealots. You need to have enough dps to kill 3 pylons, so pull a few probes if needed, but not too many. | ||
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ThatGuy89
United Kingdom1968 Posts
ive been looking at this build but it seems very fragile and that it could just be outmassed by 2 base roch/ling is it worth trying it and getting it perfected? or is there a better one? thanks | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
On March 09 2012 17:44 Restyle1337 wrote: Would you say korean 4 gate all-inn with 4-5 pylons in his base is viable in PvP as of now? And in viable, im thinking as in what league would it work in? I'm sure it wouldn't in High M, GM etc.Or? I'm doing KR 4 gate with the zealot rally variation and it works pretty well so far. I'm in Masters. I don't think it's been done enough that people really know the correct response yet. | ||
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
Hmmm, personally, I don't think it is all that viable anymore. I gateway open every time v Zerg and don't think you should be pressuring at 10/11 min against 2 base Zerg with mass Roach/Ling, or a Zerg who has delayed his 3rd to say 9/10 min and has saturated his first two bases. Better to put some light pressure on in these cases, and take your own third IMO (if he has dropped a delayed third) while continuing to Hallu scout for his tech choice. Bear in in mind that I am a poor player, but I think that gateway pushes against Zerg, from gate expands, at that timing will fail more often than not. If you don't want to FFE to gateway all-in/pressure at 10/11 (or similar) then this build might be for you: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=315275 I haven't tried it yet, I don't think I am good enough atm, but it looks real good and good comments through the thread. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:00 ThatGuy89 wrote: im looking for a good build that puts early pressure (10/11 mins) against zerg with gateway units ive been looking at this build but it seems very fragile and that it could just be outmassed by 2 base roch/ling is it worth trying it and getting it perfected? or is there a better one? thanks I suggest you go for a forge FE first, and decide what to do from there. The timing you are looking for is pretty late though so maybe +2 7gate blink stalker? | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On March 10 2012 02:12 Enright wrote: What are the most effective 2-base PvT Timings? Whenever you get a new tech is usually a time when your army value spikes. For example first Colossus, second Colossus, 1/1 finishes, 2/2 finishes, WG finishes. You can design an allin build around any of these, or groups of these. For example an old PvT timing that used to be very popular was +1 attack, 2 Colo and Lance for 2 base vs 2 base. On March 09 2012 17:44 Restyle1337 wrote: Would you say korean 4 gate all-inn with 4-5 pylons in his base is viable in PvP as of now? And in viable, im thinking as in what league would it work in? I'm sure it wouldn't in High M, GM etc.Or? It'll work in most leagues, but the higher you go the harder it is to pull off. The other day I beat a couple very high master's players with it, and they were pissed. | ||
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Dariusz
Poland657 Posts
*3cc is such an abusive fucking shit build ;/ | ||
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Zealot Lord
Hong Kong744 Posts
On March 10 2012 06:04 Dariusz wrote: What's the best response to 3 fast CC in PvT when i open 1gate exp into colossus? I can have 2 colossi with range when he has his first 2 starport units out. Should i try to deny 3rd or what? *3cc is such an abusive fucking shit build ;/ yea - I'd like help on this as well. PvT used to be my best matchup, by now I lose regularly coz of this, making me feel like EG.JYP lol. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On March 10 2012 06:04 Dariusz wrote: What's the best response to 3 fast CC in PvT when i open 1gate exp into colossus? I can have 2 colossi with range when he has his first 2 starport units out. Should i try to deny 3rd or what? *3cc is such an abusive fucking shit build ;/ That should mean he only has 2 vikings and 0 medivas  Go kill him. You could also expand yourself. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On March 09 2012 07:01 Latedi wrote: You could hold it in beta, you can hold it now. OK, i got a chance to test this a bit. The 3 rax hits a lot later than the 2 rax. You can hold it with a 1 gate expand into 3 gate if you pool chronoboost. Basically, after your second warpin you should chrono all 3 gates and you will have enough to hold the 3 rax (one reactor and 2 tech labs). My transition of choice here would be double forge. If he expands after the 3 rax you can hit a 2/2 charge archon timing and kill him. If he stays on one base and pulls scvs you wont have enough gates to hold it. Cut probes at 40, add two cannons and a 4th gate. If you spend all your chrono on the gates you can finish it on 4 gates vs a 1 base terran. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13379 Posts
On March 10 2012 10:12 Latedi wrote: That should mean he only has 2 vikings and 0 medivas Go kill him. You could also expand yourself.Yeah at that point if you have 2 collossus with range and they have next to no vikings it should be easy to win or deny the third if you control well. Attack where there are no bunkers and you kill that base. This is especially strong on entombed valley just attack the 2nd if their army is at the 3rd and vice versa. | ||
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ThatGuy89
United Kingdom1968 Posts
On March 10 2012 05:28 Latedi wrote: I suggest you go for a forge FE first, and decide what to do from there. The timing you are looking for is pretty late though so maybe +2 7gate blink stalker? i always FFE atm but i want to have another way to open, its so boring FFE every game and i didnt really want a 2 base all in, i use the 2 immortal with WP push for that | ||
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Lafer
United States114 Posts
Because of this, I want to start using warp prisms more so that I can sink a bit of those minerals into zealot harass, but the couple of times that I have tried it, it just gets smashed and ends up looking silly. Are there specific locations I should be looking for, such as the back of the main, or go straight for the third? | ||
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recklessfire
United States373 Posts
On March 10 2012 18:01 Lafer wrote: Can anyone give me any hints on how to use a warp prism effectively? When playing against zerg, I usually end up floating a about 1k minerals at midgame because I'm nabbing upgrades, getting blink/charge, storm, and warping in high templar for storms and archons. I don't have much gas to spare, but I sure can do with getting rid of those minerals. Because of this, I want to start using warp prisms more so that I can sink a bit of those minerals into zealot harass, but the couple of times that I have tried it, it just gets smashed and ends up looking silly. Are there specific locations I should be looking for, such as the back of the main, or go straight for the third? dont just drop zealots out of no where. Use them to pull him army towards the drop, so your main army can position better, like grab the towers or pick off creep tumors or drop to buy yourself time especially if your main army isnt strong enough to engage is army head on. Or lets say your main army is in a really good position and you are threatening to attack so he has to pull his main army to be able defend, drop his bases that are far away from his army, for instance you are threatening to attack his 3rd base on shakuras plateau and he has positioned his army to defend the 3rd, drop his main base and target tech. These are all good tactics but dont be discouraged if they do zero damage. These drops are tools that stress the opponents multi tasking and decision making as well as yours. If you get denied, dont STOP dropping. Just wait for another opportunity to drop. The strength of a protoss drop is that YOU determine how many units u want to warp in, and that forces him to adjust how many units he needs to defend. | ||
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Lafer
United States114 Posts
On March 10 2012 18:25 recklessfire wrote: dont just drop zealots out of no where. Use them to pull him army towards the drop, so your main army can position better, like grab the towers or pick off creep tumors or drop to buy yourself time especially if your main army isnt strong enough to engage is army head on. Or lets say your main army is in a really good position and you are threatening to attack so he has to pull his main army to be able defend, drop his bases that are far away from his army, for instance you are threatening to attack his 3rd base on shakuras plateau and he has positioned his army to defend the 3rd, drop his main base and target tech. These are all good tactics but dont be discouraged if they do zero damage. These drops are tools that stress the opponents multi tasking and decision making as well as yours. If you get denied, dont STOP dropping. Just wait for another opportunity to drop. The strength of a protoss drop is that YOU determine how many units u want to warp in, and that forces him to adjust how many units he needs to defend. Thanks for the reply! This actually helps me better understand why I should be dropping and the examples were just what I was looking for! | ||
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ximae
181 Posts
PS: Use the drop to scout as well and also be active with the prism, just showing it to him roaming around his base, at a safe distance so it diesnt get sniped, will force him to have his army split or directly pin him down so u are free to tech, expo or both. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On March 10 2012 17:19 ThatGuy89 wrote: i always FFE atm but i want to have another way to open, its so boring FFE every game and i didnt really want a 2 base all in, i use the 2 immortal with WP push for that Well you can open other ways, but forge FE is generally the strongest build in most aspects. You can defend well, get a ton of eco and tech fast since you dont have to invest in a bunch of sentries. If you don't want to go all in you could cut a gate and add more sentries. That way you can take a third. | ||
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