EPTP.S had some success with it.
The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 17
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Corsica
Ukraine1854 Posts
P.S had some success with it. | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On August 12 2011 20:34 Animostas wrote: I'm curious as to how well Chargelots do against the 1-1-1 all-in from Terran, because I've had a decent amount of success in it (Diamond league); on the other hand it may be because the people I've played against haven't executed it particularly well. I feel like Charge is a good defensive upgrade that could be used regardless of whether or not the all-in occurs, so getting it blind doesn't seem to be a horrible idea. I've never been able to get charge in time. I think 2 sentries and 2 more zealots is better than Charge. Or a sentry and an Immortal. | ||
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Geiko
France1943 Posts
On August 13 2011 02:36 Corsica wrote: Guys I tried DT expo into chargelot archon on 2 base, do you think its viable on the paper? P.S had some success with it. What matchup are you talking about ? The followup to DT expands are extremely dependent on how much damage your DTs do in all cases though. | ||
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meadbert
United States681 Posts
On August 13 2011 02:45 CecilSunkure wrote: I've never been able to get charge in time. I think 2 sentries and 2 more zealots is better than Charge. Or a sentry and an Immortal. If you include supply cost then a Sentry is 75/100 and a Zealot is 125. This means 200/200 on Charge (assuming you already have Twilight) is only 2 Sentries and 0.43 Zealots which is not that much. The issue is does Charge finish in time? This gets me to thinking. What is the proper response if I have started a DT expand and then scout what I believe to be a 1-1-1. So I have Twilight almost done. Do I go Shrine, Archives, Charge, Blink or cancel the Archives or just do nothing with it and save it till after I hopefully survive. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On August 13 2011 02:36 Corsica wrote: Guys I tried DT expo into chargelot archon on 2 base, do you think its viable on the paper? P.S had some success with it. What matchup? PvT or PvZ? Either way it's a pretty solid opening but you have to be prepared to deal with your opponent having detection as well. This will put you behind but in most cases it won't be game ending. | ||
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matthewd49
United States11 Posts
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AirbladeOrange
United States2573 Posts
On August 13 2011 03:25 matthewd49 wrote: hi guys i just started playing toss. what would you recommend as a good all around opener for PvT that i stick to and perfect? thanks. Try 2 gate robo. It's safe, you expand fairly early, and you get great scouting info. | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On August 13 2011 03:05 meadbert wrote: If you include supply cost then a Sentry is 75/100 and a Zealot is 125. This means 200/200 on Charge (assuming you already have Twilight) is only 2 Sentries and 0.43 Zealots which is not that much. The issue is does Charge finish in time? This gets me to thinking. What is the proper response if I have started a DT expand and then scout what I believe to be a 1-1-1. So I have Twilight almost done. Do I go Shrine, Archives, Charge, Blink or cancel the Archives or just do nothing with it and save it till after I hopefully survive. The issue is that 150/100 + 200/200 is sunk resources that apply to a lessened amount of Zealots overall, and is really hard to finish on-time anyways. I know you're going to be better off with that 300 vespene and 350 minerals spent on other things like a Robo + immortal + sentry. | ||
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Minty Fresh
Canada4 Posts
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On August 13 2011 03:40 Minty Fresh wrote: What's a good overall unit composition against a Terran that goes MMM. I have been losing a lot lately to early 8min pushes. Sentry Zealot Immortal and a couple Stalkers. If that's too early for an Immortal for you, just get Sentry Zealot Stalker and have good spell casting. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On August 13 2011 03:05 meadbert wrote: If you include supply cost then a Sentry is 75/100 and a Zealot is 125. This means 200/200 on Charge (assuming you already have Twilight) is only 2 Sentries and 0.43 Zealots which is not that much. The issue is does Charge finish in time? This gets me to thinking. What is the proper response if I have started a DT expand and then scout what I believe to be a 1-1-1. So I have Twilight almost done. Do I go Shrine, Archives, Charge, Blink or cancel the Archives or just do nothing with it and save it till after I hopefully survive. A 1-1-1 could easily get a raven so skip the DT tech. I'd say get charge as zealots are the easiest way of dealing with standard marine/tank/banshee/raven. Archons might also be good as they can kill anything but with low numbers of units its pretty easy to micro the marines to not get AoE'd to death and banshees can flee. Another good things with archons is that it allows you to use more gates in total for more units (zealot/archon). Ooh and about storm, it pretty much won't finish in time, even if you get it out in time somehow it's not going to be effective enough as the HTs are easily picked off by banshees and there won't be much anti air to stop them. If you do manage to land a perfect storm or two that'd be great though but the push has tp be really late for this to be possible. I would not recommend blink as stalkers usually does not deal with the 1-1-1 push very well, maybe if you base race (I have no experience with that haha)? I wrote this like you would not be able to cancel the TC in time but I usully go with 4-5 gates and a robo. Even if there is no way to get the immortals out in time like this I'd suggest getting detection asap for the occasional cloak or you will have some serious problems. As you will have more money to spend than if you were doing any kind of robo play for immortals I would suggest you get 5-6 gates depending on the timing of the push and your probe saturation. And if you don't care to read all this shit: Will you be able to get something useful in time, and the investment will be worth it (archons, charge, super late push: storm maybe)? Get it. No? Cancel and get more gates, this will be most of the times as terrans seem... happy to attack asap. And don't forget detection  gl hf | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On August 13 2011 03:25 matthewd49 wrote: hi guys i just started playing toss. what would you recommend as a good all around opener for PvT that i stick to and perfect? thanks. 1gate expand into double forge :D I've been doing it since beta, silver league. And now I'm in masters. This build just doesn't get old. Edit: some links :3 1gate FE - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=142887 Double forge with colossi - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=206596 Ok so I realize now that the double forge part is more of a strategy than an opening, it's still nice to stack one greedy idea on another :F | ||
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matthewd49
United States11 Posts
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AirbladeOrange
United States2573 Posts
On August 13 2011 03:46 Latedi wrote: 1gate expand into double forge :D I've been doing it since beta, silver league. And now I'm in masters. This build just doesn't get old. Edit: some links :3 1gate FE - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=142887 Double forge with colossi - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=206596 Ok so I realize now that the double forge part is more of a strategy than an opening, it's still nice to stack one greedy idea on another :F I do this too but always feel super vulnerable before +2/+2 and charge complete (all at the same time). How do you stay safe? | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On August 13 2011 03:53 AirbladeOrange wrote: I do this too but always feel super vulnerable before +2/+2 and charge complete (all at the same time). How do you stay safe? 1/1 is hell of a good timing as well ^^ I'm getting 5 gateways so I can get a ton of zealots and forcefields. That keeps me safe vs any pushes I can remember on top of my head but you may need other units sometimes, like immortals vs mech. Ht tech is also strong but I don't think getting it before 2/2 and charge is a good idea | ||
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AirbladeOrange
United States2573 Posts
On August 13 2011 04:04 Latedi wrote: 1/1 is hell of a good timing as well ^^ I'm getting 5 gateways so i can get a ton of zealots and forcefields. That keeps me safe vs any pushes I can remember on top of my head but you may need other units sometimes. Ht tech is also strong but I don't think getting it before 2/2 and charge is a good idea... maybe vs sky terran? Well, just get more gateways. I go 1 gate - expand - 2 more gates - 2 forges - 2 more gates (5 total) - Twilight - Attack and expand @+2/+2 and charge I have a high zealot count before charge is done and if a bio ball attacks me they can kite them to death and stay out of range of forcefields. I just sit at home having little to no map presence and try to scout around with hallucination. I only get 3 gases so I have more minerals for zealots, maybe I should get another to afford more sentries. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On August 13 2011 04:14 AirbladeOrange wrote: I go 1 gate - expand - 2 more gates - 2 forges - 2 more gates (5 total) - Twilight - Attack and expand @+2/+2 and charge I have a high zealot count before charge is done and if a bio ball attacks me they can kite them to death and stay out of range of forcefields. I just sit at home having little to no map presence and try to scout around with hallucination. I only get 3 gases so I have more minerals for zealots, maybe I should get another to afford more sentries. What I do is getting the third and fourth gas at the same time as the TC. I have been exploited a few times with kiting but that is because my forcefields have missed. I think the build might be vulnerable to ghosts by the way but I'm not 100% sure yet. Also getting some stalkers will allow you to deal damage even if the zealots are being kited. So, 1. Chronoboost that charge like a madman, don't miss the timing. 2. Get more sentries and stalkers, not only zealots. However when charge finishes you want a lot of them. Think about it like zerg's droning  3. Positioning means a lot, maybe you can sneak out half your zealots and surround his push? I have no exact response to defending a push at this timing but if you have 1/1 you shouldn't have too many problems as the zealots with a guardian shield will tank anything. | ||
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Nseven
United States9 Posts
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Geiko
France1943 Posts
On August 13 2011 22:29 Nseven wrote: anyone have a good PvZ stargate harass build with forge FE and one without/ any fast stargate build vs Zerg would be helpful http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=230939 To my knowledge, no one has yet made a thread on a particular version of 1 gate FE into stargate. | ||
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Erik.TheRed
United States1655 Posts
moving question to another thread | ||
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