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United States8477 Posts
On August 12 2011 10:19 CKHound wrote:
Hey there, im a platinum protoss, recently promoted, did really well in season 2, went from low silver to top gold. then to play in s3. However i seem to have hit a wall vs almost everybody except terrran, not to say i dont lose to terran, but generaly i either thwart their early push or get stomped because of bad positioning something like that. but vs zerg and protoss nothing i do works. vs protoss i cant even win in a 4gt vs 4 gt battle ever, i never offensivly 4 gate but i cant hold off a 4 gate even if i know its coming and i have one at the same time. I just hate 4 gates. Vs zerg, generally i get roflstomped fairly easily. If i open stargate then tech switch to collosus, even if they go mass hydra i end up only barely surviving, to later get crushed by some big ball. Before i had completley skipped collosus but after pestering of friends i started to use them again, and have fell into this slump, before i started making collosus i seemed to have a greated win pct. against all races, i would always go archon tech. But i honestly dont know whats the best advice. ive even thought of switching races just so i can have fun lol
To defend 4 gate, there are many builds that you can employ. For a beginner, you can learn a version of the 3 stalker rush build or geiko's 3 gate. Then you as you get more comfortable, you can begin learning more advanced openings such as the MC defensive 3 gate, Tod's defensive 3 gate, or Mana/Sase's defensive 3 gate.
For versus zerg advice, you'd have to open a new thread and post some replays for some better advice. Most likely, as a platinum player, there are bigger problems that can be easily fixed found in your replays, problems that you didn't know you had. For example, if your opponent is crushing you with mass hydra versus collosi, then there's something fundamentally wrong with your play that you're not describing to us.
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United States8477 Posts
On August 12 2011 10:47 aZealot wrote:
Hi All, I'm a noob/crap Toss (Gold on NA) and focussing on 3 builds in all my match-ups:
2 Gate Expo vs Z
2 Gate Robo vs T
4 Gate (offensive if I can, defensive if my opponent is 4 Gating) vs P
I see above in the advise to Leino, that 2 Gate Robo vs T should be Gate Robo Gate. I go Gate Gate Robo. Are there any significant advantages, apart from earlier scouting, to getting the Robo earlier? I prefer to have a steady core of units pumping out of my 2 Gates before I put down a Robo.
Thanks in advance for any advice. Cheers.
Gate robo gate is just better overall. It used to be before that on close positions, you'd need earlier units to defend some earlier pressure. In those cases, Gate gate robo was somewhat ok. However, with modern maps, you don't need this 2nd gate earlier so you can get the robo for faster obs.
Also, you shouldn't have to worry about marine scv rushes, because you actually shouldn't be going 2 gate robo versus no gas builds in the first place. 2 gate robo is only really meant as a build versus gas builds, because the only 2 real viable options as a terran with no gas are 1 rax cc and marine scv allin. 1 gate fe is better against both of those than a 2 gate robo.
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On August 12 2011 04:26 starbreaker10 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 03:52 galivet wrote:You use sentries to enhance your defender's advantage by delaying the bulk of the attacking army until you can overpower the push. + Show Spoiler +
I'm not sure what you mean by "equally effective". It requires some micro (FF) and it requires paying attention to your army in your natural. Zergs also need to micro to hold a push (transfuse, relocating crawlers, army micro). Terrans, too: SVC they have to bring up SCVs to repair their bunkers and they have to use stim. Any natural that is hard to cover via FF is also hard to cover with bunkers and spine crawlers.
"Equally effective" sounds like a balance whine to me, and you'll progress a lot faster by learning to work with the tools blizzard gave you than by trying to convince them to change the game.
It is a whine, u got me. but still, force fields isnt a really solution, its a very short term solution and a mis-micro can cost me the game. Ive said this before, it shouldnt be a requirement for a protoss player to lay perfect FF's in every situation to make up for a army/timing disadvantage, it should be a supplemental b/c not eveyone can react that quickly with precision. esp at diamond/mid master level. somtimes i get off great ff's sometimes i dont. the times i dont i come out behind in a big way.
Earlt game micro is on P. Mid-late game is on T. Once you get the deathball its fairly a move. The T has to micro to stay alive. And zealot archon is crazy strong and requires 0 micro.
The ghost HT dance obv favours the HT as you need to emp a HT, while the storm can hit a much bigger target. Once there is cloak ghosts become epic though.
PvZ does seem that zerg had little micro to do though, i get your point. The game is balanced for high levels. So in gold-plat, zerg obviously has a huge advantage as FFs arent great, and TvZ the T has to have good multitasking to do well. At decent levels though the micro needed seems fairly similar.
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On August 12 2011 11:13 Squigly wrote:
The ghost HT dance obv favours the HT as you need to emp a HT, while the storm can hit a much bigger target. Once there is cloak ghosts become epic though.
Storm does not do instant damage, in fact there is a delay after the storm animation starts, before it does damage.
Emp is instant damage. Emp outranges feedback (9range + 2radius vs 9 range).
Emp is effective against all protoss units.
Storm is effective against mm, and moderate against a SkyTerran stacking air units.
Ghosts can cloak - requiring an obs ahead of your army.
Ghost HT dance obv favours Ghosts.
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What the hell do i do against mass repair thors? I had a ridiculously long game just now where he went mass cloaked banshee, i lost my bases, expanded out, then he went mass marines, i killed them with HTs, then he hid a factory on the map while i was trying to kill all his pforts and made mass repair thor. I made mass zealot and void ray and still lost.
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@Obaten: i think the best thing to do is continue to use HT's.
Feedback the thors and also storm the scvs.
Immortals would help a lot as well - but the strike cannon kinda 1shots the Immortal.
What were u trying to kill the Planetary Fortresses with though?
You should never really attack head on into PF's unless yo uhave a considerable army lead (that, or you have DT's / Voids and he has no turrets)
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On August 12 2011 12:09 SigmaX wrote:
@Obaten: i think the best thing to do is continue to use HT's.
Feedback the thors and also storm the scvs.
Immortals would help a lot as well - but the strike cannon kinda 1shots the Immortal.
What were u trying to kill the Planetary Fortresses with though?
You should never really attack head on into PF's unless yo uhave a considerable army lead (that, or you have DT's / Voids and he has no turrets)
I had like 13 archons to kill all the pforts, and the rest of my army maxed out with zealots and stalkers lol. He strike cannoned all my archons =/
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On August 12 2011 11:59 Obaten wrote:
What the hell do i do against mass repair thors? I had a ridiculously long game just now where he went mass cloaked banshee, i lost my bases, expanded out, then he went mass marines, i killed them with HTs, then he hid a factory on the map while i was trying to kill all his pforts and made mass repair thor. I made mass zealot and void ray and still lost.
The HT's you made against the mass marines are good since storms kill the SCVs and feedback does some nice initial dmg. The SCVs partly shield the Thor from Zaelots but a good number of Void rays could do the trick. If you have not upgraded air weapon/armor it could be better to use immortals + the archons of your empty HTs, backed up by other GW units you can afford.
Oh and the Feedback eliminates his Strike Cannon.
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On August 12 2011 12:10 Obaten wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 12:09 SigmaX wrote:
@Obaten: i think the best thing to do is continue to use HT's.
Feedback the thors and also storm the scvs.
Immortals would help a lot as well - but the strike cannon kinda 1shots the Immortal.
What were u trying to kill the Planetary Fortresses with though?
You should never really attack head on into PF's unless yo uhave a considerable army lead (that, or you have DT's / Voids and he has no turrets) I had like 13 archons to kill all the pforts lol. He strike cannoned them =/
did you magic box your voidrays? did your voidrays have upgrades?
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I'm having trouble with an early push in PvT. Terran pushes out with Maurader slow, 3 mauraders, a marine, and an SCV and is at my front door at around 5:30. If I don't go for a zealot sentry is there any way I can possibly hold this off? Even if I do force field the ramp how can I hold with only one or two gateways if I'm going for a 1-2 gate expand? Or am I always going to lose to this?
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@Killerunit - by the time he has marauder slow and pushes out; your expo should be half way or so finished in 1gate expand (approximately).
depending on whether you do a Huk 20 food 1 gate FE, or 1 gate double gas FE, there's different responses.
I usually do the 1 gate double gas FE, and go for a high early sentry count. to help against the marauder slow. Continue to warp in zlots (and minimal stalkers for extra dps), but make sure you have the zlots to tank the damage. FF him so he cannot kite the zealots. If he has a lot of units, try and cut it in half.
If necessary - pull probes if he kills ur zlots and is killing your sentries. You have double nexus with chronoboosts - so you wouldn't be to ofar behind economically if he kills some probes.
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@Sigmax; Chipman; 4monk:
Thanks for the tips guys - will do gate, robo, gate from now on. I don't think I have the confidence to 1 Gate FE yet though, neither can I read the PvT well enough yet to do without the robo. And yeah, I always 9 scout anyway - whatever the matchup.
Cheers.
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thank you 4kmonk and cecil. You guys are invaluable for people like me.
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On August 12 2011 16:07 leino wrote:
thank you 4kmonk and cecil. You guys are invaluable for people like me.
Welcome 
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United States8477 Posts
On August 12 2011 16:07 leino wrote:
thank you 4kmonk and cecil. You guys are invaluable for people like me.
Fuck you. Nah, jk you're welcome.
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just wondering, but is chargelot/archon/immortal a good mix for mid-lategame PvP? I just ended a game where I did a botched 4gate due to my proxy pylon being late and he was able to get an immortal out before I could break his stalker count, so I retreated, threw up a forge + cannons as I expanded, then rushed TC and a dark shrine (yes, even though he had a robo...) I threw away 1 dt to see if he had made an observer, which it turns out he hadnt so I was able to stall him from mining his main as he got his natural running to build up a couple of archons and start charge + upgrades. I seemed to roll his immortal/blink stalker army. I spotted him trying to crank out double stargate with an obs so I just broke his cannon/gate wall at his natural but it left me wondering two things:
1. Should he have gone colossus to counter the chargelots or was my comp better (chargelots/immortal/archon vs. blink stalker + immortal)?
2. Should I have gone for HT to get archons? (i suppose this depends on if I need gas or minerals more, right?)
it seemed I won more because he didn't know how to respond than me being better, but I dunno.
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On August 09 2011 17:19 MechKingPrime wrote:
Chipman has no clue as to what he's saying disregard everything he says.
Surrealz: You shouldn't chrono so early on unless you're going for a fast expansion. Otherwise chrono at standard timing of 11.
Lol what? How is that any different from what I said. Chronoboosting after the pylon finishes *IS* an 11 cb. Are you mad dude? wtf lol.
I also said if you don't 9 pylon scout and pair your workers on close mineral patches you can 11 cb, 12 gate(scout) and with constant probe production nearly instantly cb the 13th probe. I open up like this every single game I don't 9 pylon scout so I think I know what I'm talking about.
Btw it's called a stargate, not starport, and you rarely get more than one unless you're going for some funky mass phoenix play. Why would you rely on making units to defend you if you... opened up forge fast expand? Yeah you should probably get some units out of the gateway(s) obviously, but you should probably get something that shoots up to deny scouting as much as possible so they don't know for sure if you're going mass gate/blink/stargate/dt/robo etc. A single fast voidray has been used countless times to protect a player from roach aggression, using forcefields/warp ins as needed obviously.
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United States8477 Posts
On August 12 2011 18:36 Omeze wrote:
just wondering, but is chargelot/archon/immortal a good mix for mid-lategame PvP? I just ended a game where I did a botched 4gate due to my proxy pylon being late and he was able to get an immortal out before I could break his stalker count, so I retreated, threw up a forge + cannons as I expanded, then rushed TC and a dark shrine (yes, even though he had a robo...) I threw away 1 dt to see if he had made an observer, which it turns out he hadnt so I was able to stall him from mining his main as he got his natural running to build up a couple of archons and start charge + upgrades. I seemed to roll his immortal/blink stalker army. I spotted him trying to crank out double stargate with an obs so I just broke his cannon/gate wall at his natural but it left me wondering two things:
1. Should he have gone colossus to counter the chargelots or was my comp better (chargelots/immortal/archon vs. blink stalker + immortal)?
2. Should I have gone for HT to get archons? (i suppose this depends on if I need gas or minerals more, right?)
it seemed I won more because he didn't know how to respond than me being better, but I dunno.
Check out the robo/twilight guide in my profile to learn more about the zealot/immortal/archon/stalker composition.
Direct answers:
1. The best composition vs your composition is zealot/archon/collosi. From his position, he wants to match your zealot/archon.
2. Yes, you always would rather make archons out of high templar, because zealots are quite good in this matchup.
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lol, zealot archon colossus vs chargelots, sounds like a nightmare =p
Just think about the use of immortals logically. They are good if they can attack stalkers/colossus, or supply effective in terms of absorbing damage for other units in max'd battles, maybe(and that's about it). In that context decide if they are worth the cost over more chargelots/archons/colossi.
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I'm curious as to how well Chargelots do against the 1-1-1 all-in from Terran, because I've had a decent amount of success in it (Diamond league); on the other hand it may be because the people I've played against haven't executed it particularly well. I feel like Charge is a good defensive upgrade that could be used regardless of whether or not the all-in occurs, so getting it blind doesn't seem to be a horrible idea.
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EPT
