EPTThe replay can be found here: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/175263-1v1-protoss-zerg-searing-crater
The Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 19
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Alakazooom
United States3 Posts
The replay can be found here: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/175263-1v1-protoss-zerg-searing-crater | ||
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Geiko
France2051 Posts
On August 15 2011 02:34 Latedi wrote: I think it's pretty much the same, it's just a later timing with a 3gate FE than the 1gate FE. It's not the same thing at all. If you 3 gate expand, you make units off of 3 gateways thus delaying everything that comes later. Going 1 gate FE and imediately adding 2 gates and a stargate is a completely different build. | ||
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Bonham
Canada655 Posts
On August 15 2011 01:48 Geiko wrote: I'm pretty sure MC's build is a 1 gate FE into 3 gate and stargate which is completely different than a 3 gate expo. Doesn't he start the gates before nexus depending on scouting? Sorry; can't look at the VODs myself right now. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On August 15 2011 03:01 Geiko wrote: It's not the same thing at all. If you 3 gate expand, you make units off of 3 gateways thus delaying everything that comes later. Going 1 gate FE and imediately adding 2 gates and a stargate is a completely different build. I am aware the builds are different, but in the end I don't think it's going to matter as they are essentially the same. 1gate FE is greedier and have a harder time dealing with all ins of course, but people wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't safe. | ||
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Geiko
France2051 Posts
On August 15 2011 07:05 Latedi wrote: I am aware the builds are different, but in the end I don't think it's going to matter as they are essentially the same. 1gate FE is greedier and have a harder time dealing with all ins of course, but people wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't safe. In the end, 3 gate FE into stargate dies to a good 2 base roach push (losira push or whatever it's called) while 1 gate FE doesn't. You really need that void ray in time (7:30) to hold the push. If you've invested in a stargate and a void ray that won't make it in time to defend, you are very far behind. 3 Gate expand usually needs to get 2 to 3 blind cannons to be safe. | ||
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hobosrus
United States99 Posts
 can someone post the build order and common follow ups. Thanks  | ||
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Geiko
France2051 Posts
On August 15 2011 07:47 hobosrus wrote: I know that 1 gate fe is standard pvz but i dont know the build order. can someone post the build order and common follow ups. Thanks 9 pylon ->scout 11 cb nexus 12 gate 13 cb nexus 14 gas 17 pylon 17 core -> warp gate (cb 3 times) 18 gaz 19 zealot (cb) 23 pylon 23 sentry 26 sentry 30 sentry 32 nexus pylon gate gate stargate get void rays I'll try to post something more detailed maybe if I can get my hands on enough korean replays. | ||
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gejfsyd
Poland156 Posts
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Geiko
France2051 Posts
On August 15 2011 07:50 gejfsyd wrote: How to deal with roaches? They are so strong. If i mass immortals he can have broodlords before i can mass enough of them and if i go collosi he makes 20 corrupors and then morph them to broodlords! Without some robotic units he can just overrun my gateway army. What to do? TT Stalkers + sentry FF at the beginning, then mass blink stalker mid game sprinkled with a couple immortals. Add colossi when you can. Post a replay or two and i can be more specific on what you needed to do in the games you lost. | ||
monk
United States8477 Posts
On August 15 2011 07:50 Geiko wrote: 9 pylon ->scout 11 cb nexus 13 gate 13 cb nexus 15 gas 17 pylon 17 core -> warp gate (cb 3 times) 18 gaz 19 zealot (cb) 23 pylon 23 sentry 26 sentry 30 sentry 32 nexus pylon gate gate stargate get void rays I'll try to post something more detailed maybe if I can get my hands on enough korean replays. Sorry, geiko but this is actually wrong. You're probably getting this build off of one of MC's replays where he did something funky in the beginning. Off the top of my head, it goes more something like this: Assume constant probe production throughout 9 pylon ->scout 11 cb nexus 12 gate 13 cb nexus 14 gas 15 cb nexus 17 pylon 17 core -> warp gate 18 gas 19 zealot 23 pylon 23 sentry (spend all spare cb on gateway until warpgates finish) 26 sentry pylon 30 sentry nexus (when money allows) between 5:10 and 5:25 gateway (when money allows) gateway (when money allows) tech building(when money allows, ie stargate, twilight, forge, robo) 40 pylon Transfer 8 probes to natural. The key difference is that you spend cb on sentries instead of warpgates. Your warpgates should finish in line with the completion of your 2nd gateway, with your 3rd gateway following shortly after. | ||
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meadbert
United States681 Posts
On August 15 2011 02:52 Alakazooom wrote: Can you guys help me out? I started playing a couple months ago, and I am currently in Silver. I recently played a PvZ (I am toss), and it seemed like I had the game won, but I ended up losing. Can you guys take a look at it and tell me what I did wrong/why I lost? The replay can be found here: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/175263-1v1-protoss-zerg-searing-crater So as a Silver player there a bunch of basic build order/mechanics issues such as not floating 1K minerals at 7 minutes and also hotkeying your army. Still, you pretty much had him beat despite this. Where you went wrong was a combination of over-probing and getting no cannons. You want more collectors than your opponent, but doubly him is very risky especially without static defense. Once you were up 35-20 on collectors you could have just 4-6 gated for the win. If you want to get to 45-25 then you really need cannons to defend his army which was about as powerful as yours. Basically once your main was mined out and you were on two open bases you could not defend from ling harass. Instead you could have built a a few cannons at each which would have gone a long way. Good luck and have fun! | ||
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whistle
United States141 Posts
My problem is I don't think I really understand the theory behind the composition so I never have the right ratio of units. For example - with the Stalker/Sentry/Colossus deathball I know what each unit does and why they're important in battle, so I can both macro up the right army and use it in battle. But with this composition, I feel like everything does a combination of tank + deal damage, so I don't know when I need more of one and less of another. My thought process (which I assume is flawed somehow): - Immortals take some Roach hits (not too sure how useful this is in maxed battles due to overkill on units like Stalkers/Zealots?) + deal a ton of damage in return - Zealots good against lings + have really high DPS in general if they can hit the unit - Archons splash clumped units/lings and have lots of shields for tanking - HT... obviously AoE storm + feedback Infestors If they have like five Roaches and 100 Lings, I want more Zealots. But other than the very obvious examples, how should I develop this composition? What's the theory behind why it works? | ||
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stokes17
United States1411 Posts
On August 15 2011 09:33 4kmonk wrote: Sorry, geiko but this is actually wrong. You're probably getting this build off of one of MC's replays where he did something funky in the beginning. Off the top of my head, it goes more something like this: Assume constant probe production throughout 9 pylon ->scout 11 cb nexus 12 gate 13 cb nexus 14 gas 15 cb nexus 17 pylon 17 core -> warp gate 18 gas 19 zealot 23 pylon 23 sentry (spend all spare cb on gateway until warpgates finish) 26 sentry pylon 30 sentry nexus (when money allows) between 5:10 and 5:25 gateway (when money allows) gateway (when money allows) tech building(when money allows, ie stargate, twilight, forge, robo) 40 pylon Transfer 8 probes to natural. The key difference is that you spend cb on sentries instead of warpgates. Your warpgates should finish in line with the completion of your 2nd gateway, with your 3rd gateway following shortly after. I'm sure this is a newbie question.... but why are you going 12 gate instead of 13 gate? | ||
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See.Blue
United States2673 Posts
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monk
United States8477 Posts
On August 15 2011 10:24 stokes17 wrote: I'm sure this is a newbie question.... but why are you going 12 gate instead of 13 gate? Sorry, that should read 13 gate. I was just copying it from geiko's build order. 13 gate is generally better in PvZ. You want to 12 gate sometimes in PvP to either 4 gate or to sell the idea that you might be four gating. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
I suspect the marine tank banshee all-in the entire game, someone explain where I went wrong here. I played as greedy as I could to get my collosis out quickly. Here I'm mad because I scout this, and I just do not have enough fire power to deal with. I decided to go collosis, because I mean on longer distances I can actually get two. I don't think immortal is an ideal choice against this build. I had 4 gate + robo production and 30-35 probes when he hit. Everything ideal as it's supposed to be vs it. None the less, I wasn't even close to holding it. High master >_> | ||
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Deleted User 108965
1096 Posts
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monk
United States8477 Posts
On August 15 2011 10:47 FiWiFaKi wrote: Alright. PvT close spawns on shattered temple vs 1/1/1. I suspect the marine tank banshee all-in the entire game, someone explain where I went wrong here. I played as greedy as I could to get my collosis out quickly. Here I'm mad because I scout this, and I just do not have enough fire power to deal with. I decided to go collosis, because I mean on longer distances I can actually get two. I don't think immortal is an ideal choice against this build. I had 4 gate + robo production and 30-35 probes when he hit. Everything ideal as it's supposed to be vs it. None the less, I wasn't even close to holding it. High master >_> 35 probes is too many, especially for close positions Your don't start your first collosi until 25 seconds after your robo bay finishes. Your robo is too far from your natural. If you fixed those two problems, you'd have 2 collosi by the time he hits. Your probe production isn't the best and you don't chorno probes enough. You don't need a 3rd gas. 4 sentries is too many versus this build. 2 or 3 is best imo. You didn't use guardian shield You engaged with too few units, especially zealots. (only 2 zealots) Your probe distribution between the two bases could be better. You got supply blocked when his push hits. I'd also still get the immortal. At the very least, you force him to target your immortal so your zealots get in more hits. You should pull your probes, especially vs non sieged tanks and fight with your entire army + probes vs his army + scvs. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
On August 15 2011 11:00 4kmonk wrote: 35 probes is too many, especially for close positions Your don't start your first collosi until 25 seconds after your robo bay finishes. Your robo is too far from your natural. If you fixed those two problems, you'd have 2 collosi by the time he hits. Your probe production isn't the best and you don't chorno probes enough. You don't need a 3rd gas. 4 sentries is too many versus this build. 2 or 3 is best imo. You didn't use guardian shield You engaged with too few units, especially zealots. (only 2 zealots) Your probe distribution between the two bases could be better. You got supply blocked when his push hits. I'd also still get the immortal. At the very least, you force him to target your immortal so your zealots get in more hits. You should pull your probes, especially vs non sieged tanks and fight with your entire army + probes vs his army + scvs. Alright well if my mind was optimized more properly, I could have had a second collosis out in time. But to be frank I don't think it would have changed the battle. I think my probe distribution was fine. 22 probes in main (including the 6 in geyser) 11 at nat so there is maximum effeciency. And btw I was never supply blocked, I was at 52/52 and 60/60 but look at the perfect timing everything finished at. I'm not really sure how I could have engaged with more units unless I wanted to wait for him to reach my base and then there was the fact that he might have siege and that is a situation you never want to be in. I guess I'll just make sure not to get second gas, I mean I had excess gas and stalkers are a nono so I just decided on sentries. And making an immortal means even less zealots, I mean that attack him so early I had nothing to hit him with. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
It's just if he attacks later, and possibly waits for stim, and I only have immortals + gateway units more than 90% of the time the protoss will die. | ||
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