EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 146
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Froadac
United States6733 Posts
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Rasera
Canada96 Posts
On December 25 2011 11:49 Froadac wrote: Uhh. What is a good number of workers lategame for each matchup? I've lost a pvp because i had 30 more workers, and almost lost a pvt because I accidentally got 111 workers. LOL for one and two bases, you want 30 probes each (6 on gas, 24 on minerals); both fully saturated. Depending on who you talk to, or what build you choose to do 78 - 81 probes are your ideal numbers on 3 or more bases. Also remember that the end game counter counts all probes that you've made, not your end count. You will want 18 probes on gas (more the better, but you need 4 functional bases worth of gas for more). It leaves 60 - 63 probes to be scattered across your mineral patches. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On December 25 2011 11:40 fatalities wrote: I've been going Robo Twilight and lost a bunch of similar games. (Perhaps I'll post a replay in a bit; not on hand atm) I'm high platinum, so maybe I don't have the APM to execute it, but I've been able to blink in to their base and snipe some pylons and occasionally a production building. However, in the last three PvPs, they went colossus and just went for the base trade, and I was out of position each time. How can I be sure where his army is if my observer is giving me vision? On a side note, how many immortals should I make? Make more observers to keep track of his movement, and kill hiss observers if possible. You should also be able to escape with blink even if you you do run into him somewhere on the map. Don't make immortals if you're planning on base trading, make more blink stalkers instead. On December 25 2011 12:05 Rasera wrote: for one and two bases, you want 30 probes each (6 on gas, 24 on minerals); both fully saturated. Depending on who you talk to, or what build you choose to do 78 - 81 probes are your ideal numbers on 3 or more bases. Also remember that the end game counter counts all probes that you've made, not your end count. You will want 18 probes on gas (more the better, but you need 4 functional bases worth of gas for more). It leaves 60 - 63 probes to be scattered across your mineral patches. That's quite a lot of probes and you could probably spread the extra workers you got on minerals/gas on a fourth base as fully saturating the minerals is not really optimal. This however requires a highly aggressive style as you will accumulate insane amounts of resources fast, kind of like a zerg I guess. Imo you don't need more than around 70 probes total if you plan on teching and not being too aggressive. (16+6)*3 = 66 but you probably want some more if you plan on taking eight geysers | ||
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Rasera
Canada96 Posts
On December 25 2011 12:15 Latedi wrote: That's quite a lot of probes and you could probably spread the extra workers you got on minerals/gas on a fourth base as fully saturating the minerals is not really optimal. This however requires a highly aggressive style as you will accumulate insane amounts of resources fast, kind of like a zerg I guess. Imo you don't need more than around 70 probes total if you plan on teching and not being too aggressive. (16+6)*3 = 66 but you probably want some more if you plan on taking eight geysers I would take his word over mine. I tend to aim for 20 per, as it is pseudo-saturation, but if you don't need the mineral income, don't build the probes. You will need the gas though, at least 6 assimilators. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On December 25 2011 12:30 Rasera wrote: I would take his word over mine. I tend to aim for 20 per, as it is pseudo-saturation, but if you don't need the mineral income, don't build the probes. You will need the gas though, at least 6 assimilators. It's so hard to know xD sometimes you want more army supply so I guess you could kill some probes but it really sucks when you got that warp prism ready in the perfect position and not enough minerals to use those 10 gateways for zealots. | ||
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Froadac
United States6733 Posts
Or just low drone count roach into brood. | ||
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Guamshin
Netherlands295 Posts
PvT: When T is going MMM and i go collosus, when is it safe to throw the robo bay down? Terrans army is very dangerous before collosus. And if the bay finishes do i make 1 collosus and the upgrade or do i make more units first? When 1 gate expoing, do i make alot of units all the time with probes or more tech? When T has ghosts should i already have High templar? How many gates per base? PvZ: How to defend 2 base roach attacks? Gates per base? Other ways to engage zerg (make the zerg make units instead of drones) other then stargate? When FFE'ing PvP: When 4gating if it fails, do i try to expand or something else? Sorry for loads of questions but i really want to know this ^^ High leveled players only please. | ||
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Ulfsark
United States958 Posts
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On December 26 2011 00:55 Guamshin wrote: I have a few questions about the matchups, PvT: When T is going MMM and i go collosus, when is it safe to throw the robo bay down? Terrans army is very dangerous before collosus. And if the bay finishes do i make 1 collosus and the upgrade or do i make more units first? When 1 gate expoing, do i make alot of units all the time with probes or more tech? When T has ghosts should i already have High templar? How many gates per base? PvZ: How to defend 2 base roach attacks? Gates per base? Other ways to engage zerg (make the zerg make units instead of drones) other then stargate? When FFE'ing PvP: When 4gating if it fails, do i try to expand or something else? Sorry for loads of questions but i really want to know this ^^ High leveled players only please. PvT If you play completely standard get the robo bay a while after your expansion goes up, you should have three gates before that. Use sentries to defend with forcefields before that, the terran army is very strong in small and large numbers but in between you can defend with gateway units. You probably want your colossus out when he gets his medivacs. Make the first colossus asap after the robo bays finishes, this is to optimize your build. Get range when you can but don't cut colossi, unless you plan on going for some timing which require you to do so. If you 1gate FE you really need to make as many units as possible out of that gate. If you scout him going for an expand where he won't be able to pressure you, feel free to cut units and get tech instead. You don't need HTs if he has ghosts, If he goes for ghosts and delays the factory I'd even say colossus is a lot better to get. 4 gates per base is kind of the maximum, don't forget to count your robos and stargates into this. They usually count as 2. PvZ Did you forge FE? Make cannons and get stalker/sentry. Did you 1-3gate FE? Get a cannon or two if you got a forge, then get sentry stalker and stay inside your wall. The same number of gates apply here as they are tied to your economy rather than to the match up. If you want to force him to make units you can go for small gatewya unit pokes or attacks. For example warping in some zealots while teching with your gas or chronoboosting 2 zealots and attack before your cybernetics core is done. Warp prism drops are also a lot of fun, pack it full with sentries and forcefield his mineral lines. Kill as many drones as possible and may warp in a few zealots before getting out of there with the sentries. PvP Well you are far behind and you have to take some kind of risk. Expand or tech is my tip. There's no go-to strat at this point as you sacrificed the even footage you had against your opponent by going for a build which is hard to recover from and impossible to deal damage with against a good defense. On December 26 2011 05:18 Ulfsark wrote: Can anybody suggest any relatively new PvZ builds? Perhaps mention a player/match where it is used. Thanks! Best build ever <3 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=287970 | ||
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Lemonayd
United States745 Posts
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On December 25 2011 12:05 Rasera wrote: for one and two bases, you want 30 probes each (6 on gas, 24 on minerals); both fully saturated. Depending on who you talk to, or what build you choose to do 78 - 81 probes are your ideal numbers on 3 or more bases. Also remember that the end game counter counts all probes that you've made, not your end count. You will want 18 probes on gas (more the better, but you need 4 functional bases worth of gas for more). It leaves 60 - 63 probes to be scattered across your mineral patches. 78-81 is a little too much, IMO. Unless you're allowed to be on 3 fully operational bases, at least one base is going to be much more mined out than the others. That, and 30 is just a little over saturation. 20 (2 on close/3 on far) is more ideal, as 24 on most maps leaves 4 extra probes scurrying/fucking up mining partners on the close minerals. Kinda map dependent too based on mineral layout. I prefer 66-73, personally. Especially cause my builds always time out to 3 rounds of probes after the third nexus finishes and always resolves at a nice, even 73. 76 when I accidentally do one too many. | ||
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Guamshin
Netherlands295 Posts
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On December 26 2011 19:38 Guamshin wrote: Ah alright thanks, so when is it generally good to add gateways?(playing standard) That depends on how fast you will need them, the longer you can delay them and tech the better. For example in PvT you need to add 2 gates after you have expanded and then an additional 2 gates around the time he gets medivacs, or earlier. You should be on 5gates and a robo, teching colossus and maybe +1 armor/charge. You can take a third with this but sometimes you must add a few more gates if you are delayed by aggression or something. Just to dump the minerals somewhere. When you are taking your third you can probably add the additional gates even before it's done as you should have some probes to transfer. In PvZ you usually add all gates at once when you are on 2 bases after a forge FE, teching CB and then adding 3-6 gates all at once. The number would depend on your strategy which can be from a 4gate pressure to a 6gate all in. When taking your third you will probably get gates very fast while you are taking it as you often need to wall it off. For PvP... Not sure. All builds do this differently as zealot archon can go up to 8 while double robo has maybe 3 total. It depends a lot on your strategy when you add them too. My old build used to expand with 3, add 2 if he was aggressive and then add 3 again for a total of 8 for a timing push. | ||
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Quochobao
United States350 Posts
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Coolhwip
Sweden1381 Posts
On December 25 2011 11:49 Froadac wrote: Uhh. What is a good number of workers lategame for each matchup? I've lost a pvp because i had 30 more workers, and almost lost a pvt because I accidentally got 111 workers. LOL It's very dependant on Matchup and style of the opponent. Around 75 is probably pretty normal but If i play against a muta ling zerg i usually go up to over 90 probes cause his main army is going to be pretty weak and you can afford to lose some probes to mutas and ling-run bys. I also use alot canons in that case. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On December 26 2011 20:17 Quochobao wrote: When I go FFE, I always CB a zealot out and scout towards his base. Sometimes I saw >6 lings, and make a bunch of defense plus a stargate, expecting roach ling all in. But it turns out to be 2 base muta T_T How do I deal with all of these zergs all-in / muta / late expand options with limited scouting of FFE? Send two zealots, hide 1-2 probes on the map and/or fast tech stargate. | ||
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Quochobao
United States350 Posts
On December 26 2011 20:51 Latedi wrote: Send two zealots, hide 1-2 probes on the map and/or fast tech stargate. If I wait for two zealots then move out, I would not be able to scout cancel hatch roach all in soon enough. | ||
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Froadac
United States6733 Posts
On December 26 2011 13:54 Lemonayd wrote: For anybody struggling with PvZ, watch his vod from tonight (12/25/11 us). He plays a game on metal against a zerg who does 2 base muta and has some great analysis from start to finish. Are you referring to artosis? What time does he do it? There are 5 hours to go through TT | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On December 27 2011 04:11 Quochobao wrote: If I wait for two zealots then move out, I would not be able to scout cancel hatch roach all in soon enough. You should be able to scout this with your first probe. Edit, clarifying: Scout his gas. | ||
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Lemonayd
United States745 Posts
On December 27 2011 05:31 Froadac wrote: Are you referring to artosis? What time does he do it? There are 5 hours to go through TT Yes Artosis' stream, sorry I made a typo there. It was game three on the vod that night. I'm actually going to make a thread so we have something easy to read where we can just know where in his vods to look for certain content. | ||
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