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On December 23 2011 02:27 Archontas wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 01:46 Troublesome wrote:
How can you possibly not lose to six pool on a four player map when you scout their correct position last?
(FFEing) If you don't scout them in the first or second position, you have to throw down your 2nd pylon against your Nexus. You'll be scouting the last location right around when the lings pop - if they are 6 or 7 pooling, your first cannon goes down in your mineral line instead of the wall-off. You'll lose the pylon and forge but your probes will be safe, and you continue into a normal build from there.
Yep - you can also chrono out a Stalker and have great map control due to speed being so late. Though it can be somewhat greedy (sometimes), I like to 1 Gate Expo after a Failed 6 pool with continuous Stalker production followed up by some sentries.
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If I defend a cannon rush (I have a forge, gateway and 1 cannon above my ramp and hes stuck below). What is a good follow up to end the game quickly? Should I just do a really late 4gate and try to overwhelm him with units?
I just lost a game to Carriers/Phoenix and Collosi from 2 base after my opponent failed to cannon rush =/. I tried to get void rays and push but he had phoenix so I didn't do a lot of damage.
Thanks.
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Can anyone post a good build order for protoss to open with in all 3 matchups? Just looking for a build order to have my new friend open with as he learns from bronze-platinum. Any explanations along with the build is much appreciated. Thanks
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On December 23 2011 02:57 Dujek wrote:
If I defend a cannon rush (I have a forge, gateway and 1 cannon above my ramp and hes stuck below). What is a good follow up to end the game quickly? Should I just do a really late 4gate and try to overwhelm him with units?
I just lost a game to Carriers/Phoenix and Collosi from 2 base after my opponent failed to cannon rush =/. I tried to get void rays and push but he had phoenix so I didn't do a lot of damage.
Thanks.
I usually opt for robo into WP. If he's smart he'll just cannon and try to take an expo.
It depends on how well you defended your expo and how much he invested though.
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On December 23 2011 02:31 QTIP. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 02:27 Archontas wrote:On December 23 2011 01:46 Troublesome wrote:
How can you possibly not lose to six pool on a four player map when you scout their correct position last?
(FFEing) If you don't scout them in the first or second position, you have to throw down your 2nd pylon against your Nexus. You'll be scouting the last location right around when the lings pop - if they are 6 or 7 pooling, your first cannon goes down in your mineral line instead of the wall-off. You'll lose the pylon and forge but your probes will be safe, and you continue into a normal build from there. Yep - you can also chrono out a Stalker and have great map control due to speed being so late. Though it can be somewhat greedy (sometimes), I like to 1 Gate Expo after a Failed 6 pool with continuous Stalker production followed up by some sentries.
Or you can proxy 3 gate after setting up a cannon in your base. If your proxy goes unscouted and zerg expands, he's dead.
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On December 23 2011 02:27 Archontas wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 01:46 Troublesome wrote:
How can you possibly not lose to six pool on a four player map when you scout their correct position last?
(FFEing) If you don't scout them in the first or second position, you have to throw down your 2nd pylon against your Nexus. You'll be scouting the last location right around when the lings pop - if they are 6 or 7 pooling, your first cannon goes down in your mineral line instead of the wall-off. You'll lose the pylon and forge but your probes will be safe, and you continue into a normal build from there.
Or you can scout at pylon and send another one at 13. You don't have to build a second pylon that early but you have to send another probe, which could be useful later on depending on how the game goes.
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On December 23 2011 05:02 Quochobao wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 02:31 QTIP. wrote:On December 23 2011 02:27 Archontas wrote:On December 23 2011 01:46 Troublesome wrote:
How can you possibly not lose to six pool on a four player map when you scout their correct position last?
(FFEing) If you don't scout them in the first or second position, you have to throw down your 2nd pylon against your Nexus. You'll be scouting the last location right around when the lings pop - if they are 6 or 7 pooling, your first cannon goes down in your mineral line instead of the wall-off. You'll lose the pylon and forge but your probes will be safe, and you continue into a normal build from there. Yep - you can also chrono out a Stalker and have great map control due to speed being so late. Though it can be somewhat greedy (sometimes), I like to 1 Gate Expo after a Failed 6 pool with continuous Stalker production followed up by some sentries. Or you can proxy 3 gate after setting up a cannon in your base. If your proxy goes unscouted and zerg expands, he's dead.
But if he scouts it. You're dead.
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On December 23 2011 05:12 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 05:02 Quochobao wrote:On December 23 2011 02:31 QTIP. wrote:On December 23 2011 02:27 Archontas wrote:On December 23 2011 01:46 Troublesome wrote:
How can you possibly not lose to six pool on a four player map when you scout their correct position last?
(FFEing) If you don't scout them in the first or second position, you have to throw down your 2nd pylon against your Nexus. You'll be scouting the last location right around when the lings pop - if they are 6 or 7 pooling, your first cannon goes down in your mineral line instead of the wall-off. You'll lose the pylon and forge but your probes will be safe, and you continue into a normal build from there. Yep - you can also chrono out a Stalker and have great map control due to speed being so late. Though it can be somewhat greedy (sometimes), I like to 1 Gate Expo after a Failed 6 pool with continuous Stalker production followed up by some sentries. Or you can proxy 3 gate after setting up a cannon in your base. If your proxy goes unscouted and zerg expands, he's dead. But if he scouts it. You're dead.
Artosis basically said that you need to follow it up with some sort of big push, so that he can't drone like a madman and get back into the game.
But nothing that risky o.o
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On December 22 2011 20:26 -YoricK- wrote:
How do you hold a proxy 2 gate when you scout the other player last when opening standard, i.e. 13 gate, 14 assim, 17 cyber etc. Had a game on metalopolis where he proxied his 2 gates where I would take my third. I usually scout close air first and he was cross, so by the time I got to his base the situation is cyber half done, 1 gateway up building a zealot, and he is about to roll into my base with his first 2 zealots. What should I do?
I decided to let my cyber finish, I pulled guys off gas, dropped another gateway and then started chronoing zealots. Even with decent probe micro, I just can't hold efficiently, as he is building probes behind the attack and he has such a zealot advantage that I can't engage without probes. I decided to go for a stalker, but its pretty useless as 1 stalker takes forever to kite zealots and he just sends a couple zealots to my mineral line. Not sure what to do, it seems like such a coinflip that I lose to. If I scout him first, I have enough time to build another gateway/forge and chrono out zealots or build a cannon but when I scout that late I can't hold. I don't think I have ever held a proxy 2 gate in this situation.
Build all your buildings around your nexus so that a single cannon in the mineral line can cover everything. When you scout nothing in his base, get a forge down (cancel the probe that is building if you dont have 150 minerals). Get the cannon up asap while chronoboosting your gateway. If the cannon complete you are safe and a long way ahead.
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Does anyone know the optimal build order for the voidray/phoenix/+1 zealot timing attack after FFE in PvZ? I feel like i could be timing it better and i dont really know how.
This build is sick btw. I highly recommend it.
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On December 23 2011 08:12 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 20:26 -YoricK- wrote:
How do you hold a proxy 2 gate when you scout the other player last when opening standard, i.e. 13 gate, 14 assim, 17 cyber etc. Had a game on metalopolis where he proxied his 2 gates where I would take my third. I usually scout close air first and he was cross, so by the time I got to his base the situation is cyber half done, 1 gateway up building a zealot, and he is about to roll into my base with his first 2 zealots. What should I do?
I decided to let my cyber finish, I pulled guys off gas, dropped another gateway and then started chronoing zealots. Even with decent probe micro, I just can't hold efficiently, as he is building probes behind the attack and he has such a zealot advantage that I can't engage without probes. I decided to go for a stalker, but its pretty useless as 1 stalker takes forever to kite zealots and he just sends a couple zealots to my mineral line. Not sure what to do, it seems like such a coinflip that I lose to. If I scout him first, I have enough time to build another gateway/forge and chrono out zealots or build a cannon but when I scout that late I can't hold. I don't think I have ever held a proxy 2 gate in this situation. Build all your buildings around your nexus so that a single cannon in the mineral line can cover everything. When you scout nothing in his base, get a forge down (cancel the probe that is building if you dont have 150 minerals). Get the cannon up asap while chronoboosting your gateway. If the cannon complete you are safe and a long way ahead.
I always thought you have to respond to 2gate with 2gate?
If you're scouting on nine you shouldn't be getting to his base when the cyber is half-way O.O
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On December 23 2011 16:15 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 08:12 hzflank wrote:On December 22 2011 20:26 -YoricK- wrote:
How do you hold a proxy 2 gate when you scout the other player last when opening standard, i.e. 13 gate, 14 assim, 17 cyber etc. Had a game on metalopolis where he proxied his 2 gates where I would take my third. I usually scout close air first and he was cross, so by the time I got to his base the situation is cyber half done, 1 gateway up building a zealot, and he is about to roll into my base with his first 2 zealots. What should I do?
I decided to let my cyber finish, I pulled guys off gas, dropped another gateway and then started chronoing zealots. Even with decent probe micro, I just can't hold efficiently, as he is building probes behind the attack and he has such a zealot advantage that I can't engage without probes. I decided to go for a stalker, but its pretty useless as 1 stalker takes forever to kite zealots and he just sends a couple zealots to my mineral line. Not sure what to do, it seems like such a coinflip that I lose to. If I scout him first, I have enough time to build another gateway/forge and chrono out zealots or build a cannon but when I scout that late I can't hold. I don't think I have ever held a proxy 2 gate in this situation. Build all your buildings around your nexus so that a single cannon in the mineral line can cover everything. When you scout nothing in his base, get a forge down (cancel the probe that is building if you dont have 150 minerals). Get the cannon up asap while chronoboosting your gateway. If the cannon complete you are safe and a long way ahead. I always thought you have to respond to 2gate with 2gate? If you're scouting on nine you shouldn't be getting to his base when the cyber is half-way O.O
You can use zealots and probes to stall until the cannon finishes.
http://tv.majorleaguegaming.com/videos/79412-cwr4-eghuk-vs-liquidhero-game-2
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On December 23 2011 05:12 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 05:02 Quochobao wrote:On December 23 2011 02:31 QTIP. wrote:On December 23 2011 02:27 Archontas wrote:On December 23 2011 01:46 Troublesome wrote:
How can you possibly not lose to six pool on a four player map when you scout their correct position last?
(FFEing) If you don't scout them in the first or second position, you have to throw down your 2nd pylon against your Nexus. You'll be scouting the last location right around when the lings pop - if they are 6 or 7 pooling, your first cannon goes down in your mineral line instead of the wall-off. You'll lose the pylon and forge but your probes will be safe, and you continue into a normal build from there. Yep - you can also chrono out a Stalker and have great map control due to speed being so late. Though it can be somewhat greedy (sometimes), I like to 1 Gate Expo after a Failed 6 pool with continuous Stalker production followed up by some sentries. Or you can proxy 3 gate after setting up a cannon in your base. If your proxy goes unscouted and zerg expands, he's dead. But if he scouts it. You're dead.
Not that dead, since you can put your pylon in a corner and wall off with the 3 gates. Most of his lings are at your base anyway, so there is no way to kill the gates right away.
I always find that pushing out with traditional 4 gate dies to mass lings somehow...
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On December 23 2011 02:31 QTIP. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 02:27 Archontas wrote:On December 23 2011 01:46 Troublesome wrote:
How can you possibly not lose to six pool on a four player map when you scout their correct position last?
(FFEing) If you don't scout them in the first or second position, you have to throw down your 2nd pylon against your Nexus. You'll be scouting the last location right around when the lings pop - if they are 6 or 7 pooling, your first cannon goes down in your mineral line instead of the wall-off. You'll lose the pylon and forge but your probes will be safe, and you continue into a normal build from there. Yep - you can also chrono out a Stalker and have great map control due to speed being so late. Though it can be somewhat greedy (sometimes), I like to 1 Gate Expo after a Failed 6 pool with continuous Stalker production followed up by some sentries.
Sounds interesting, do you mind posting a/some replay(/s)? I'm about 50% win rate against 6-7 pool and it's mostly due to my follow up beeing either too greedy so he can win with a Roach/Baneling follow up or he's droning like a mad man whilst I'm just sitting there blindly in my base and expand too late. I think my biggest weakness is accuatly scouting what his next step is after the Zergling attack.
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Hi there
i think i will go insane soon if i dont figure out this problem :
Its PvT, I always try to open Zealot , Stalker Nexus , GW , GW , with prob cut at 24 i think till the 3rd GW is up. I am in mid / low diamond and today i faced like 9 Terran and i went 1-8 . I either die to some stupid all in like 1-1-1 or 3rax play of 1 base or and this is much more worse some kind of 2 / 4 medivac stim push which hits at a time were neither have any colossi or my 3 additional gates are up and i just die. To be honest i am really embaressed by that problem and i rages pretty hard today on all my Terran enemys. By the way the one win i got was from a macro game : <.
Are my timings wrong ? I get my robo as soon as my nexus is finished and i immeaditly start a observer afterwards, all my cb´s are going into my probes , i try to get all of my warp in cycles but with perma probe production this is sometimes really difficult, should i cut probes instaed and go for units if i am not sure what my opponent is doing and risking to be behind if he does not choose to be agressiv at all ?
Please i really need help with this 
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On December 24 2011 00:06 FederigoEU wrote:Hi there i think i will go insane soon if i dont figure out this problem : Its PvT, I always try to open Zealot , Stalker Nexus , GW , GW , with prob cut at 24 i think till the 3rd GW is up. I am in mid / low diamond and today i faced like 9 Terran and i went 1-8 . I either die to some stupid all in like 1-1-1 or 3rax play of 1 base or and this is much more worse some kind of 2 / 4 medivac stim push which hits at a time were neither have any colossi or my 3 additional gates are up and i just die. To be honest i am really embaressed by that problem and i rages pretty hard today on all my Terran enemys. By the way the one win i got was from a macro game : <. Are my timings wrong ? I get my robo as soon as my nexus is finished and i immeaditly start a observer afterwards, all my cb´s are going into my probes , i try to get all of my warp in cycles but with perma probe production this is sometimes really difficult, should i cut probes instaed and go for units if i am not sure what my opponent is doing and risking to be behind if he does not choose to be agressiv at all ? Please i really need help with this
You shouldn't be dying to 1-1-1 with a 1-gate robo.
If you're not getting a robo up, you have to after your three gates.
Ask yourself why you're cutting probes at 24? Are you making sentries? Are you poking with your initial stalker?
Sounds like you're dying because you're not getting information...
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so you are saying i should go 1 gate into robo if i am not sure what my opponet is doing after my probe scout dies and stalker poke did not give much away ? , Should i expo after robo is build or before , might be a dumb question but i need to know , tnx for the answer even i did not much help from it :>
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On December 23 2011 07:04 Froadac wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2011 05:12 mizU wrote:On December 23 2011 05:02 Quochobao wrote:On December 23 2011 02:31 QTIP. wrote:On December 23 2011 02:27 Archontas wrote:On December 23 2011 01:46 Troublesome wrote:
How can you possibly not lose to six pool on a four player map when you scout their correct position last?
(FFEing) If you don't scout them in the first or second position, you have to throw down your 2nd pylon against your Nexus. You'll be scouting the last location right around when the lings pop - if they are 6 or 7 pooling, your first cannon goes down in your mineral line instead of the wall-off. You'll lose the pylon and forge but your probes will be safe, and you continue into a normal build from there. Yep - you can also chrono out a Stalker and have great map control due to speed being so late. Though it can be somewhat greedy (sometimes), I like to 1 Gate Expo after a Failed 6 pool with continuous Stalker production followed up by some sentries. Or you can proxy 3 gate after setting up a cannon in your base. If your proxy goes unscouted and zerg expands, he's dead. But if he scouts it. You're dead. Artosis basically said that you need to follow it up with some sort of big push, so that he can't drone like a madman and get back into the game. But nothing that risky o.o
Brilliant feedback guys, thanks a lot! TL always delivers.
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On December 24 2011 05:53 FederigoEU wrote:
so you are saying i should go 1 gate into robo if i am not sure what my opponet is doing after my probe scout dies and stalker poke did not give much away ? , Should i expo after robo is build or before , might be a dumb question but i need to know , tnx for the answer even i did not much help from it :>
Basically, your second or third production building should always be a robo, unless your opponent is doing a marine/scv all-in in the first 5 minutes. Getting the robo as your fourth building is too late if your opponent has gas.
A high masters+ player will probably go 1 gate robo into expo if they scout gas or do not get into the base to scout at all. If they get in and scout no gas then they will go 1 gate expand into two more gateways and then a robo.
As a lower level player I tend to go 2 gate expand into robo. In fact, I have recently stopped worker scouting altogether vs terran. I am still not sure if it is good, but I have won my last several PvTs (low masters). I just open 2 gate and send the first zealot and stalker to scout, then start my nexus, robo then third gateway. It seems safe against anything the terran can throw at me.
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thanks for the answer 
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EPT
