EPTThe Protoss Help Me Thread - Page 141
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Make sure you read the OP before asking a question. Asking a question already addressed in the OP will result in moderation action. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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RexDeusum
United States4 Posts
I want to know the best way to place cannons on maps where you use the forge to hug the nexus (like Xel'naga) instead of maps with the choke at the natural. Is it better to put them out in front of the nexus, around the nexus, behind it, in your main, or somewhere else? I have no trouble stopping them on maps with the choke at the natural, but these are a lot harder to stop for me. While I know a 3 gate expand is probably better (especially at high play level) I want some practice with FFE's on maps with open naturals to see which I feel more comfortable with later. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On December 20 2011 03:42 Mordanis wrote: Hey, I just played a game where a ling runby did a lot of damage. Normally I wall off, but what do you do with a lowground expansion? Should I wall at the top of the ramp or the bottom? Thanks a lot! What kind of expansion? Forge FE? 1gate FE? On December 20 2011 03:47 RexDeusum wrote: Hello I have a question about cannon placement to stop all-ins after FFE's. I want to know the best way to place cannons on maps where you use the forge to hug the nexus (like Xel'naga) instead of maps with the choke at the natural. Is it better to put them out in front of the nexus, around the nexus, behind it, in your main, or somewhere else? I have no trouble stopping them on maps with the choke at the natural, but these are a lot harder to stop for me. While I know a 3 gate expand is probably better (especially at high play level) I want some practice with FFE's on maps with open naturals to see which I feel more comfortable with later. You just place them behind the wall as usual. You might need another one in the mineral line though to cover everything. Then if you see an all in start adding more cannons behind the wall and if you can against roaches, beside the nexus leaning to the outside. These cannons are vulnerable but if they are attacked the other cannons will at least cover them. You can't cover everything really but if you get a stalker out you should be able to prevent the nexus from going down to roaches. Zerglings and banelings shouldn't be a problem if you have a good wall and chronoboost sentries, adding a few cannons too. Even at higher levels I do believe that Forge FEs are superior to 3gate expands but 1gate expand or 1-2gate stargate are also fine. | ||
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CorpulentBanana
169 Posts
 EDIT: In reference to Mordanis' post. Sorry! | ||
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Froadac
United States6733 Posts
They go roaches --> I win They go roach hydra --> I stomp They go muta ling --> wtf do I do. I get blink stalker. Templar, But their execution is so much easier, and the final engage I always lose to ling. | ||
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Dariusz
Poland657 Posts
On December 20 2011 08:51 Froadac wrote: My pvz flowchart atm They go roaches --> I win They go roach hydra --> I stomp They go muta ling --> wtf do I do. I get blink stalker. Templar, But their execution is so much easier, and the final engage I always lose to ling. Post replays | ||
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Froadac
United States6733 Posts
OK. Next time I face it I will. I know what I mess up for the most part, (lose too many rpobes) but next time... | ||
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beetlelisk
Poland2276 Posts
On December 20 2011 09:07 Froadac wrote: OK. Next time I face it I will. I know what I mess up for the most part, (lose too many rpobes) but next time... Yeah replay can be helpful but from my own experience I can tell you: don't underestimate zealots. It's lings that really kills stalkers so you really need zeals. Stalker, Zealot, Archon and HT combo is probably the best answer to ling muta. | ||
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Froadac
United States6733 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
On December 20 2011 03:55 CorpulentBanana wrote: I'm assuming you 3gate sentry expand? Was the ling runby into your main or natural? I usually warp in a zealot for the solid wall into the main, and lots of FFs/zealots should deter any harrass at the natural. Also sim city with pylons/forges/extra gates at the natural once its up and running stops most types of shenanigans. Just try to clog up as many paths as you can into your main and warp in reinforcements when the lings can't get into the main. FFs stop them from escaping too, and running probes prevents his damage, and loses lots of larvae worth of lings for nothing EDIT: In reference to Mordanis' post. Sorry! Sorry I was away for so long and unclear in my earlier post, but it was actually my third on Nerazim. There the ramp is very large and the (third) expansion is on lower ground than the rest of the map. It is this case, where the third or fourth base is lower ground than mid that confuses me. Thanks a lot, and I'm really sorry about how unclear my previous post was. | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On December 20 2011 12:20 Mordanis wrote: Sorry I was away for so long and unclear in my earlier post, but it was actually my third on Nerazim. There the ramp is very large and the (third) expansion is on lower ground than the rest of the map. It is this case, where the third or fourth base is lower ground than mid that confuses me. Thanks a lot, and I'm really sorry about how unclear my previous post was. It's kind of hard to wall these large ramps, your best bet imo is to cannon the expansion and warp in zealots if larger groups of zerglings attack. Or you can make pylon walls above the ramp like White-ra. | ||
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CorpulentBanana
169 Posts
On December 20 2011 12:20 Mordanis wrote: Sorry I was away for so long and unclear in my earlier post, but it was actually my third on Nerazim. There the ramp is very large and the (third) expansion is on lower ground than the rest of the map. It is this case, where the third or fourth base is lower ground than mid that confuses me. Thanks a lot, and I'm really sorry about how unclear my previous post was. No problem, I was just trying to help in the case of the 3rd and 4th bases, once they are up and running, 3-4 cannons (depending on how agressive he is, more if it helps you feel safe) and a round of zealot warp-ins should handle most zergling runbys. However, simcity still should apply here. Try and throw gateways at the ramps or around the cannons to make it difficult for the zerglings to get to the mineral line/cannons. I also just thought of this now (as they may be more useful for harass or expansion denying), but 1-2 DTs might actually be really effective at blocking/defending ling runbys, since there probably won't be any detection or infestors with the lings. Hope I helped better than last time! | ||
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Archontas
United States319 Posts
What are the accepted "standard" builds? Are there even any currently? It seems in the pro scene that players are trying to metagame each other. What kind of scouting information can you reliably get between your probe getting denied by a stalker and the first observer/phoenix reaching your opponent's base? What should you be looking for? How do you know when you are safe to expand? | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
On December 21 2011 03:00 CorpulentBanana wrote: No problem, I was just trying to help in the case of the 3rd and 4th bases, once they are up and running, 3-4 cannons (depending on how agressive he is, more if it helps you feel safe) and a round of zealot warp-ins should handle most zergling runbys. However, simcity still should apply here. Try and throw gateways at the ramps or around the cannons to make it difficult for the zerglings to get to the mineral line/cannons. I also just thought of this now (as they may be more useful for harass or expansion denying), but 1-2 DTs might actually be really effective at blocking/defending ling runbys, since there probably won't be any detection or infestors with the lings. Hope I helped better than last time!Aww yeah dat wall you can make on maps like metalopolis, it's perfect :F On December 21 2011 04:42 Archontas wrote: I'm having serious PvP opening troubles lately, to the point I'm not even sure how to form a good question or what to search for. Even when I win, I don't feel like I knew what I was doing. What are the accepted "standard" builds? Are there even any currently? It seems in the pro scene that players are trying to metagame each other. What kind of scouting information can you reliably get between your probe getting denied by a stalker and the first observer/phoenix reaching your opponent's base? What should you be looking for? How do you know when you are safe to expand? The most standard and safe build would be the 3gate robo twilight. This allows you to get out observers, immortals and blink. Everything in time to defend whatever your opponent can throw at you. The army compositions created are usually either pure blink stalkers with observers for harass and/or bastrading, or you get stalker immortal sentry with a later blink. The second army can usually expand faster as well as immortals counter stalkers pretty hard once you got a few. Stalkers can move about on the map relatively safely. As long as you don't walk up a ramp into an army, get forcefielded or outpositioned you can out run your opponent's stalkers. So feel free to move out with your first few units but be prepared to lose any zealots. Sometimes it's better to turtle for a while to make sure no gateway pressure is coming and then go below your opponent's ramp to see what shoots you. If you can confirm 2 sentries for example you should have a good gas lead. Expansion timings vary a ton, depending on both your strategies and how battles went. You will probably have to learn this through trial and error. But generally: If your army is stronger than his and taking another expansion can't be severely punished by mobile armies such as blink stalkers or phoenixes, then expand. You can also expand if you kill off some units worth 400 minerals. Keep in mind you will also need more probes for this to pay off. Cba to spell check :p I hope it's possible to read. | ||
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1st_Panzer_Div.
United States621 Posts
Replays of this would be extremely helpful. I have the general ideas; but my practice sessions are not being productive, I just need to watch a lot of people execute the first ~12 minutes of PvT successfully a lot. | ||
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Whalecore
Norway1111 Posts
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Smat
United States301 Posts
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On December 21 2011 07:09 Smat wrote: How do I win a pvp where the other player opens robo, expands after an immortal or two, and just sits and masses colosi. I don't like making colosi in pvp, but i feel like i am forced too. This game is so boring also because the other player just masses colosi off two bases and then just moves out and a moves, and i usually lose cause i was going for different tech like chargelot archon. Do I have to just sit in two base and mass colosi also? He doesnt harass at all, just sits and masses colosi and pushes when he gets a few. I feel like I want to just take an early exo against him, but that seems so metagamey and I'd rather be able to beat him using a straight up strat. Isnt there anything that hard counters this play? I barely see any pro games where one player just fast techs to colosi, and I would like to figure out why they think they will get punished for just massing colosi on two bases, cause I can never do shit against it and just lose to an A move. There are a bunch of ways to punish this. As usual, the most effective ones may be the hardest to execute. Firstly, make sure he has to make sentries. Just because you are not four gating does not mean you cant drop a forward pylon at 5:20 and do a three gate attack instead. You dont have to kill anything, just make him warp in as many sentries as possible, which will massively delay his colossus. There are ways to punish him before he gets the colossus out. The standard blink stalkers + observers can hurt him. You cant fight him head on, but if you blink most of your stalkers into his main, kill some pylons (robo bay even!), and blink out. Since you know he will move his ranged units to his main, you can even run in some units to kill pylons in his natural. Alternatively you can use a warp prism to kill workers. Dropping 4 sentries is the most effective as you can stop the probes from running. Warp in a couple of zealots on top of them and switch back to transport mode to get your sentries out when his units arrive. Just do whatever you can to make his push weaker. As for finally fighting vs his colossi ball: get more upgrades. A lot of people go double robo on two bases. This doesnt leave much gas for anything else. If you do not have your own colossi, then use that gas for +3 attack, charge and some immortals and archons. Try not to have stalkers in your end game army and instead use immortals in their place. At the end of the day, even just pure zealot (and two archons to crush forcefields) can beat is colossus ball, if you have +3 and he has +0. | ||
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imEnex
Canada500 Posts
Also, kinda related, marine banshee tank all-in? | ||
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