EPTTo high risk for such a gasintesiv unit with gas- and timeintensive upgrades + much energy.
[D] A new way to use Ravens!(?)-long-range bombing - Page 4
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Crytch
Germany135 Posts
To high risk for such a gasintesiv unit with gas- and timeintensive upgrades + much energy. | ||
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baas
Switzerland69 Posts
On July 28 2011 07:57 skatbone wrote: Here is where the idea has been explored before: Most recently, reaper/raven: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=178210 In the Beta, banshee/raven: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=128383 Similar idea: target your own reaper or raven with HSM and run it into the enemy. Thanks. I did search in advance but didn't hit upon it. I see, the discussion is pretty similar in the reaper topic. There are some creative ideas that aren't mentioned here. Like the thought of using a suv with hsm at its back while you attack the army with our units and that it wouldnt be attacked because of the priority. Or the 2v2 possibility of HSM a changeling *g. Sounds fun. I just want to add that by using more than 1 suicide unit you can spread the AOE damage significantly because some of the damage of the missiles will be overlapping.but not all of it. Maybe that's the new aspect in this thread. | ||
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baas
Switzerland69 Posts
On July 28 2011 08:27 Crytch wrote: do sm's die when the targed unit die? If yes its fail cause your one suicide unit will run into the enemy army and die instantly. To high risk for such a gasintesiv unit with gas- and timeintensive upgrades + much energy. No. It has been answered several times (even in the orignal post). The missile hits the spot where the unit was killed. | ||
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Dyme
Germany523 Posts
Liquipedia: "Top tier Terran players will often use Seeker Missiles on their own units, or use Point Defense Drones as targets to provide the best possible aim for their Seeker Missiles." | ||
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Kaeru
Sweden552 Posts
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Swiftly
Iceland160 Posts
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Insanest
United States21 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
It's as if Irradiate is back in the game, in the way that back in SC1 you would irradiate 2 vessels and run them in to a drone line. Only they didn't die, lol. Anyway, the possibility of killing 20 ish workers with just 2 HSM is really cool. If you can get it off without losing both Ravens, it will help you so much. 2 Hellions would probably be best, since they're fast and don't use gas. Perhaps this synergy with the fast hellions will help Air/Hellion styles out there, or just Air styles and u make a couple hellions out of your inactive factory, lol. I'll probably be trying this now, since I always go air vs protoss. I'll try to get some replays too if i get it to work well xD On July 28 2011 09:04 Dyme wrote: Old "trick". Liquipedia: "Top tier Terran players will often use Seeker Missiles on their own units, or use Point Defense Drones as targets to provide the best possible aim for their Seeker Missiles." Wow really, did any top tier terrans acutally do this before? if so please share any information about it so i can see haha. Was going to ask if PDD can be used as targets, and wow they can. How about turrets? That's amazing, being able to use PDD. Holy shit, this will work very well with air style lol. But the PDD does die doesn't it... so that's a bit weird. I think it's still definitely not too hard to just time it properly, so that a HSM hits a probe when it is midway where it will splash all probes. Just need to practice the timing a bit. | ||
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Unsinkable
United States23 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
On July 28 2011 13:47 Unsinkable wrote: You see.... THe thing is, if your opponent knows you're going for ravens..... He'd attack. Ravens are extremely expensive and do very little damage. It can only be use as a harassment unit. But considering the cost, Banshees or Blue flames hellions may be cheaper and may deal more damage. Not true... putting down turrets as a means of counter attack / harassment is very useful, and they are also good defense as they are detectors and PDD just helps so much. When you're going air style terran, you will have enough gas for Ravens, that they will even be able to HSM enemy units (stacked voids when they are in high numbers, or even against Stalkers if you have enough PDD to last for your Banshees to kill the stalkers). | ||
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Ameba-AZ
United States79 Posts
I found best success (for least amount lost) by using a medivac to drop a marine, shoot the marine with the missile while stimming into the drone line. In theory since the missile won't kill too many, but will hurt quite a few also having a reaper in the medivac could maybe lead to a large amount of worker kills. But again, that's stretching things to force them to work, and for the amount of gas needed to get there, it makes it very hard to implement into a serious game. I just... can't get behind it fully. Though I'll be honest I do want to try putting it into a real game scenario. | ||
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Danners933
Canada76 Posts
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baas
Switzerland69 Posts
On July 28 2011 13:45 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: I think it's still definitely not too hard to just time it properly, so that a HSM hits a probe when it is midway where it will splash all probes. Just need to practice the timing a bit. If you run in units in the drone line that have been seeker missiled, the good thing is that you can position them easily in the middle between the minerals and the headquarter, so that the splash will hit most probes | ||
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baas
Switzerland69 Posts
On July 28 2011 13:55 Ameba-AZ wrote: Extremely high risk, very little reward. The damage done by the missile hardly gives viability for such a tactic. Just messing around in a custom game yea it's a cool HAHA I GOT YOU kinda move, but the amount of drones that die is very small. I found best success (for least amount lost) by using a medivac to drop a marine, shoot the marine with the missile while stimming into the drone line. In theory since the missile won't kill too many, but will hurt quite a few also having a reaper in the medivac could maybe lead to a large amount of worker kills. But again, that's stretching things to force them to work, and for the amount of gas needed to get there, it makes it very hard to implement into a serious game. I just... can't get behind it fully. Though I'll be honest I do want to try putting it into a real game scenario. Yes, it's maybe too risky. But I disagree with what you say about not beeing able to kill a lot of drones. With 1 Raven and 1 suicide unit I would agree. But if you already reasearch HSM it wouldn't make very much sense to just get 1 raven, right? With 3 Ravens and 2 suicide units you can kill a lot of drones at once. I killed 19 in an attempt that could even have gone better. I don't now if that's enough reward though | ||
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baas
Switzerland69 Posts
On July 28 2011 14:00 Danners933 wrote: Curious what would happen if the suicide unit gets killed before the missile kills it. I love the idea of the move and i hope we can gets some replays of people trying this out soon. The hit rate in theory would be way more accurate then shooting it at the enemy unit. Cool idea ^_^ (Again). If the unit gets killed, the missile just hits the spot were that happened. I posted a replay of drone harassing with 2 reapers. | ||
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YesAnotherSC2Player
5 Posts
On July 28 2011 00:49 Theeakoz wrote: The Terran player was SlayerS_Dragon and he executed that strategy very well. Raven's torrets work very well against tech structure in TvZ and against prone line in TvP. Hey, thanks for the info, I did not know it was actually SlayerS_Dragon. AS that game proofed, Raven CAN be used very valid. Btw, as I'm Zerg mainly I could never try: does PDD work against static defense Systems? If yes, that would make Raven herass even more valid: Block the defense, Bomb the shit out of Mineral line and fly away. Also: usage of mass torerts to destroy Key buildings would be also nice. | ||
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Saishuuheiki
United States188 Posts
That is to say, when their army rushes in to close the gap, launch a seeker missile. Either it hits or they pull back (taking more siege hits) so either way you win. The only problem with this is I find the other raven abilities are usually more useful in this situation. PDD against protoss can stop stalkers from doing damage, or simply using autoturrets to build a wall (they really do get in the way) That aside, every time you see a zerg doing their bum-rush against a marine siege tank like, just think how 1 well-shot seeker missile could mess it all up by killing either charging lings, banelings, or even mutas. | ||
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Envisage
United States16 Posts
On July 29 2011 00:49 YesAnotherSC2Player wrote: Hey, thanks for the info, I did not know it was actually SlayerS_Dragon. AS that game proofed, Raven CAN be used very valid. Btw, as I'm Zerg mainly I could never try: does PDD work against static defense Systems? If yes, that would make Raven herass even more valid: Block the defense, Bomb the shit out of Mineral line and fly away. Also: usage of mass torerts to destroy Key buildings would be also nice. Not really sure you can use Dragon's games as definitive proof of anything. He likes to use unorthodox strategies that would otherwise never work on opponents he deems inferior. For the same cost, drops end up doing far more damage with much less risk. | ||
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IMSmooth
United States679 Posts
Its an interesting idea, HSM a stimmed marine and have him stop in a drone line. Could be pretty entertaining to say the least | ||
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Antpile
United States213 Posts
On July 27 2011 22:39 EmilA wrote: Gimmicky and fun. Impossible to rely on in a real game. You invest in ravens and hope to do small drone damage with an insane suicide Drop 3 BF hellions instead and you'll do much more damage while not investing in a unit that sucks ass. So, losing 3 BF hellions is somehow more cost efficient than losing a reaper? Then you had to buy the BF upgrade for a unit you probably are not going to be using in your main army unless you are doing like hellion thor. Then you make the ridiculous statement that ravens suck ass? There is absolutely nothing wrong with the raven. HSM may suck, sure, but that doesn't make the whole unit suck. PDD is freeking amazing in itself. I'm not saying this strat is a valid one. Then again, who knows? you hafta remember that the missile gets moving at a pretty decent speed once it's accelerated. So if this thing comes flying out of the fog of war suddenly chasing a cloaked unit it might be a lot harder to react in time than you think. Unlike storm, there is no chance to move after it connects to avoid most of the damage. If it connects, it's way too late. Seems gimmicky and tough to pull off consistently though. | ||
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