EPT[D] A new way to use Ravens!(?)-long-range bombing - Page 3
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TApeak
Australia6 Posts
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baas
Switzerland69 Posts
On July 28 2011 00:37 TApeak wrote: i'm no trolling u but it's already used and published idea raven with hellion o.o when hellion was considered the worst unit they decided to use it as suicide bomb :D but good on ya thinking that out Ok. I didn't know that. Actually it would have surprised me if it would have been really "new", considering there are a lot of people thinking a looooot more about starcraft than I do. I mean it's not really hard to get the idea. I just never saw it and a short search in the forum did not reveal anything like this neither...so I thought I make the post. Did you know if it..hm worked out in certain situations? | ||
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Volka
Argentina411 Posts
Or at least on monobattles ;D | ||
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Theeakoz
United States1114 Posts
On July 27 2011 22:36 YesAnotherSC2Player wrote: I've seen a game from Destiny on Korean ladder: the Korean player got 4 or 5 Raven and used them as Herass squad -> it worked greate. drop auto guns and seeker missile were used to herass mineral lines. Anyway, I guess you need an awesome unit control to make that work. The Terran player was SlayerS_Dragon and he executed that strategy very well. Raven's torrets work very well against tech structure in TvZ and against prone line in TvP. | ||
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Sennap
Iceland88 Posts
They might also be very useful against a ling/infestor (desinty style), since they'd need to spend 5 fungals to kill 1 raven and HSM on-shots them. | ||
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murkk
Canada154 Posts
Now, as for the HSM, the whole thing boils down to being required to magic box EVERY single time I want to use it... or any other ability on the Raven when I have more than one and might need to take a few losses to get something off. It's not like muta magic box which is infinitely easier, you have to move spell click and wait for the spell to go off and then move spell click... god, it's annoying just typing it in. The use of HSM by targetting your own units has been done since BETA. It's just not that good. The AOE of the HSM is crap, and the damage is also crap, so you really can't get big kills or do significant AOE dps. | ||
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baas
Switzerland69 Posts
On July 28 2011 05:30 murkk wrote: The use of HSM by targetting your own units has been done since BETA. It's just not that good. The AOE of the HSM is crap, and the damage is also crap, so you really can't get big kills or do significant AOE dps. I didn't know that, but thanks for the info. Concerning the targeting of own units, I think it does not decrease the damage dealt with the HSM to a big amount because the range of max damage 100 is very small anyways, so instead of dealing presumably at best to 2 targets 100 dmg you end up dealing it to 1 at best. Against units with a low amount of health the HSM seems not bad to me, if you have several of it. Void rays that stack up for example go down very quickly if you are able to hit them. If you use an air unit against ground targets and vice versa, you even wont loose any AEO damage at all | ||
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whoopingchow
United States293 Posts
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CoughHarder
United States4 Posts
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baas
Switzerland69 Posts
On July 28 2011 06:11 whoopingchow wrote: What happens if the unit you're targeting dies? The missile hits the last spot where it was alive on. So as long as the unit reaches its target, e.g the drone line / army, it doesn't matter if it gets picked out. I would argue that this is an advantage of this tactic, because it allows you to even get in protected drone lines and do a considerable amount of damage. | ||
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baas
Switzerland69 Posts
On July 28 2011 06:11 CoughHarder wrote: so the solution to incorporating a technique that was originally avoided due to high costs is to indirectly raise those costs? It would be still high costs, sure. But I disagree with your suggestion that the costs would rise because one of the big imminent costs of using a HSM is to loose the raven by doing so. Therefore I would say it will in contrary decrease the costs or risks of seeker missile play. | ||
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Keilah
731 Posts
My favorite is the one with the ghost =p And while you're at it, drop a nuke or two in different locations to really screw him up! | ||
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murkk
Canada154 Posts
On July 28 2011 05:48 baas wrote: I didn't know that, but thanks for the info. Concerning the targeting of own units, I think it does not decrease the damage dealt with the HSM to a big amount because the range of max damage 100 is very small anyways, so instead of dealing presumably at best to 2 targets 100 dmg you end up dealing it to 1 at best. Against units with a low amount of health the HSM seems not bad to me, if you have several of it. Void rays that stack up for example go down very quickly if you are able to hit them. If you use an air unit against ground targets and vice versa, you even wont loose any AEO damage at all Against protoss, raven's are pretty much useless except PD. They have shields, so they can regen if they back away. Their units have a LOT of hitpoints. HT can one shot ravens from long range for super cheap. Warpgate and cannons negates any turret harass. It also takes away from medivac, ghost and viking production, which is far more effective in the long run. The biggest use that most people see with HSM who haven't tried using it, is the AOE damage. However, it's a tiny radius, so the effects are rather uninspiring. I've had games where I find 8 stalkers wandering around and I land 3 HSMs when they aren't looking. They still have 5 stalkers left and can blink/kill your ravens in seconds. | ||
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jere
United States121 Posts
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baas
Switzerland69 Posts
On July 28 2011 07:16 murkk wrote: Against protoss, raven's are pretty much useless except PD. They have shields, so they can regen if they back away. Their units have a LOT of hitpoints. HT can one shot ravens from long range for super cheap. Warpgate and cannons negates any turret harass. It also takes away from medivac, ghost and viking production, which is far more effective in the long run. The biggest use that most people see with HSM who haven't tried using it, is the AOE damage. However, it's a tiny radius, so the effects are rather uninspiring. I've had games where I find 8 stalkers wandering around and I land 3 HSMs when they aren't looking. They still have 5 stalkers left and can blink/kill your ravens in seconds. As I was arguing, with targetting your own units you reduce the risk of loosing your ravens because you can fire from far away. So HT and Blinkstalkers are not the counter there. If the protoss goes void rays the HSM can be very devastating. But I agree, that especially against Stalkers (and Colossi) the HSM is weak because of their shields and the lot of space they occupy. Unless...you are able to emp the stalkers. With no shields, their 80 health would let a lot of them them die quickly to two or three HSM, I mentioned the possibility to target ghosts and get of emps at the last moment. But I see that this is a very micro intensiv gamble and requires you to know where the enemys units are (thats why I thought that one may could build sensor towers to get this intel. On the other hand I think PDD is very strong against stalker colossus because you dont risk loosing your vikings quickly to some stalkers and then end up dead because you cant deal with the colossus. Also you don't have to build as much vikings as you would have otherwise. So if you try to worker harass with HSM you can later use the ravens for PDD | ||
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Mylkyjo
Australia110 Posts
I've been including a raven, in my MMM ball, in all my match-ups lately. PDD at the 10-12 min mark against Protoss is INSANELY powerful. | ||
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skatbone
United States1005 Posts
Most recently, reaper/raven: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=178210 In the Beta, banshee/raven: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=128383 Similar idea: target your own reaper or raven with HSM and run it into the enemy. | ||
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Keilah
731 Posts
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baas
Switzerland69 Posts
On July 28 2011 08:05 Keilah wrote: hey if you target a friendly unit with HSM, then lift the unit into a medivac, what happens to the HSM? The HSM just hits the spot where you loaded in the unit. As if a stalker blinks away etc. Are you suggesting that one could pick the "suicide" units back up? Hm. Could be done I think but then you would have to time this insanely right, wouldn't you? Send suicide units towards drone line, meanwhile send medivac in to pick them up and retreat immediately... maybe you could pull it off. I think loosing the targetted units wouldn't be that much of a big deal if they are ground units anyway. | ||
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Keilah
731 Posts
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