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Spoiled Strategy Forum Guides - Page 6

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15357 Posts
August 05 2011 09:14 GMT
#101
Problem solved

http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/zatic/unspoiler_alluser.js
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
CecilSunkure
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2829 Posts
August 10 2011 18:37 GMT
#102
On August 05 2011 18:14 zatic wrote:
Problem solved

http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/zatic/unspoiler_alluser.js

So... How do you use this?

Also to anyone that has been adding spoiler to their OP, I've been simply not reading your posts because it's annoying
~Maverick~
Profile Joined July 2010
United States234 Posts
August 10 2011 22:39 GMT
#103
I personally find spoiler-ed guides much easier to read. It's definitely worth the extra clicking in my opinion. Also, this also means that when I forget something about "strategy X", it is much easier to refer to the part of the guide that I want to.
#roadto5kmmr
galtdunn
Profile Joined March 2011
United States977 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-10 23:08:54
August 10 2011 22:57 GMT
#104
+ Show Spoiler +
I

+ Show Spoiler +
don't

+ Show Spoiler +
see

+ Show Spoiler +
what

+ Show Spoiler +
the

+ Show Spoiler +
problem

+ Show Spoiler +
is
.
Oh, and I actually like spoilered guides, seeing as how Zatic is apparently taking a vote (make a poll dummy)
Currently editing items in the DotA 2 wiki. PM for questions/suggestions.
Squigly
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom629 Posts
August 10 2011 23:07 GMT
#105
On August 02 2011 18:46 SeaSwift wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2011 02:27 gosuMalicE wrote:
Disagree, that is generally only true on forums populated by lazy 12 year olds/mentally retarded highschool dropouts that cant be bothered to read more then a sentence or two at a time. (You know the sites where people bitch when you don't put a tl;dr on every post longer then 4 lines)


Congratulations for successfully stereotyping every single person who doesn't like to read walls of text. It is a widely accepted fact that people dislike big walls of plain text. No 12 year olds, retards or dropouts involved. Ask professional presenters or authors. The spoiler tags act as a contents page so you can find what you are looking for quickly. The complaints in this thread seem to come from the stance that you have to click too much to read it. Firstly, as somebody else pointed out this is ironic coming from a Starcraft player. Secondly, those clicks are so quick that it seems narrow-minded to bitch about that. It is just such a tiny problem.

Show nested quote +
On July 27 2011 02:27 gosuMalicE wrote:The posting standards in TL OP's is usually expected to be much higher and people expect long well written guides when they click on a guide thread, as you cant really explain anything about a strategy with only a few lines.


What does using spoiler tags have to do with "long well written guides"? If the OP uses Spoiler tags for a strategy that is in total about 4 lines long, yes that is stupid. But for the ideal guide Spoiler tags are useful.

Show nested quote +
On July 27 2011 02:19 Squigly wrote:
I like to read TL from my phone, and my shitty phone browser has to reload the page every single time I click a spoiler. For a lot of these guides, that's a huge amount of wasted time for no reason.


Your problem is your shitty phone browser if it has to reload the page. Not people using Spoiler tags.

Show nested quote +
On July 27 2011 02:19 Squigly wrote:Also, to people complaining about walls of text, maybe you should get off the internet and read a damn book. Seriously, learn how to have an attention span of over 30 seconds.


Also, to people complaining about reloading the page, maybe you should get off the internet and read a damn book while you wait. Seriously, learn how to have an attention span of over 30 seconds. You hypocrite.

Show nested quote +
On July 27 2011 06:41 zatic wrote:
Every single one of our front page news is larger than most guides posted on this forum. Are you people seriously suggesting it would be better to put them all into 12 spoiler tags? You for rela?


No, because as someone else pointed out, guide =/= news. Your news is colourful, bordered etc and the text is elegantly written with tons of little pictures. Strategy guides are not bordered, have little colour and are dry and clinically written by their very nature, with the only pictures being units involved and screenshots of how the strategy works.



I dont appreciate being completely falsely quoted. Please refrain from this in the future.
Turo
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada333 Posts
August 10 2011 23:25 GMT
#106
Why do you get to rage in the strategy forum, rather than the rage thread or blogs? =\
Prometheas
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada8 Posts
August 10 2011 23:37 GMT
#107
zatic im with you!!! as a mobile developer this is a travesty! think of all the mobile users...
To truely hate something you must have truely loved it first.
whistle
Profile Joined April 2010
United States141 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-11 01:33:47
August 11 2011 00:10 GMT
#108
On August 11 2011 03:37 CecilSunkure wrote:

So... How do you use this?

Also to anyone that has been adding spoiler to their OP, I've been simply not reading your posts because it's annoying


Open notepad and create a new file somewhere easily accessed called tlscript.user.js. Copy and paste the contents of zatic's script into that file.

If you're using FF, get the Greasemonkey extension. Drag the file you created into FF, and Greasemonkey should ask you if you want to install. If you're using Chrome, you can just drag the file into Chrome without getting another extension first. You don't need to keep the file around after installing.
Demonace34
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2493 Posts
August 11 2011 00:25 GMT
#109
I think the problem is the structure of the guides with spoilers actually.

Compare CecilSunkure's guide on improving to all the other Guides with spoiler tags. If the posts were setup like the liquipedia pages for builds they wouldn't need a ton of spoilers. I think there is a way to get more readability without having to click 10+ times per guide, but my brain is blank at the moment. I'll try to think hard and come back.
NaNiwa|IdrA|HuK|iNcontroL|Jinro|NonY|Day[9]|PuMa|HerO|MMA|NesTea|NaDa|Boxer|Ryung|
Flix
Profile Joined June 2011
Belgium114 Posts
August 11 2011 12:28 GMT
#110
On August 11 2011 08:37 Prometheas wrote:
zatic im with you!!! as a mobile developer this is a travesty! think of all the mobile users...


Works fine on my Blackberry and those are well known for being crap at browsing, really crap! I don't bother posting from the BB but reading the forums and opening spoilers works great.
The drone became an extractor !
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15357 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-11 12:52:44
August 11 2011 12:49 GMT
#111
I still maintain that the best way to structure longer guides is headlines, paragraphs, and a table of contents, like it's done pretty much everywhere else in the world except the TL strategy forum:

Table Of Contents:
Introduction
Tactics
Battles
References

Introduction
Crossing the T or Capping the T is a classic naval warfare tactic attempted from the late 19th to mid 20th century, in which a line of warships crossed in front of a line of enemy ships, allowing the crossing line to bring all their guns to bear while receiving fire from only the forward guns of the enemy.

It became possible to bring all of a ship's main guns to bear only in the late 19th and the early 20th centuries with the advent of steam-powered battleships with rotating gun turrets, which were able to move faster and turn quicker than sailing ships, which had fixed guns facing sideways. The tactic became largely obsolete with the introduction of missiles and aircraft as long-range strikes are not dependent on the direction the ships are facing.

Tactics
When going into battle, ships would assume a battle line formation called "line astern", in which one vessel followed another in one or more parallel lines. This allowed each ship to fire over wide arcs without lofting salvoes above friendly vessels. Each ship in the line generally engaged its opposite number in the enemy battle line.

Steaming with the enemy off to the side (by crossing the T) enabled a ship to launch salvoes at the same target with both the forward and rear turrets, maximizing the chances for a hit. It also made ranging error less critical for the ship doing the crossing, while simultaneously more critical for the ship being crossed. In military terms, this is known as enfilade fire. The tactic, designed for heavily armed and armored battleships, was used with varying degrees of success with more lightly armed and armored cruisers and heavy cruisers.

Advances in gun manufacture and fire-control systems allowed engagements at increasingly long range, from approximately 6,000 yards (5500 m) at the Battle of Tsushima in 1905 to 20,000 yards (18 000 m) at the Battle of Jutland in 1916. The introduction of brown powder, which burned less rapidly than black powder, allowed longer barrels, which allowed greater accuracy; and because it expanded less sharply than black powder, it put less strain on the insides of the barrel, allowing guns to last longer and to be manufactured to tighter tolerances. The addition of radar allowed World War II ships to fire further, more accurately, and at night.



Battles
Notable battles in which warships crossed the T include:
  • Battle of Tsushima (1905) – Japanese Admiral Togo, by use of wireless communications and the proper deployment of reconnaissance had positioned his fleet in such a way as to bring the Russian fleet to battle, "irrespective of speeds."[1] Togo had preserved for himself the interior lines of movement, while forcing the longer lines of movement upon his opponent, which ever course the Russian admiral should take; and by his selected positioning had the effect of "throwing the Russian broadsides more and more out of action."[2] "He had headed him"[3] (crossed his T). The Russian admiral, other than retreat or surrender, had no other option(s) other than "charging Togo's battle line" or "accepting a formal pitched battle."[4] Admiral Zinovy Rozhestvensky chose the latter, resulting in his total defeat in naval history's only decisive fleet action fought solely by modern battleships.
  • Battle of Elli (1912) – Rear Admiral Pavlos Kountouriotis aboard the Greek cruiser Georgios Averof at a speed of 20 knots crossed the T of the Turkish fleet on December 13, 1912. The Averof concentrated her fire against the Ottoman flagship, forcing the Turks to retreat.
  • Battle of Jutland (1916) – Admiral Sir John Jellicoe, leader of the British Grand Fleet, was able to cross the T twice against the German High Seas Fleets, but the German Fleet was both times able to escape by reversing course in poor visibility. Although the High Seas Fleet was thereby rendered strategically impotent, being unwilling to face the Grand Fleet again, the British were unable to gain the crushing "Second Trafalgar" they had desired. Jutland is sometimes referred to as the Battle of Lost Opportunities.
  • Battle of Cape Esperance (1942) - First United States (U.S.) naval night battle victory over the Japanese when a U.S. force of cruisers and destroyers under Norman Scott crossed the T of a cruiser–destroyer force under Aritomo Gotō. Gotō's force was approaching Guadalcanal on October 11, 1942 to bombard Henderson Field in support of a Tokyo Express reinforcement mission when it was surprised and defeated by Scott's force in a confused night battle.
  • Battle of Surigao Strait (1944) – The last time a battle line crossed the T, this engagement took place during the Battle of Leyte Gulf, in the Philippines during World War II. Early on October 25, 1944, Rear Admiral Jesse B. Oldendorf was guarding the southern entrance to the Leyte Gulf at the northern end of Surigao Strait. He commanded a line of six battleships (West Virginia, Tennessee, California, Maryland, Pennsylvania, and Mississippi), flanked by numerous heavy and light cruisers. A smaller Japanese force under Vice Admiral Shoji Nishimura came up the strait, aware of the formidable strength of the American force but nonetheless pressing on. Half of Nishimura's fleet was eliminated by the Americans' destroyer torpedoes, but the Japanese admiral continued on with his remaining few ships. Oldendorf's battleships were arrayed in a line, and they unleashed their radar-directed firepower upon Japanese vessels, whose return fire was ineffectual due to the lack of radar fire control and earlier battle damage. Nishimura went down with his ship. This was the last time the 'T' was crossed in an engagement between battleships, and was history's last occasion in which battleships fought each other.


References
Mahan, Alfred Thayer (1906). Reflections, Historic and Other, Suggested By The Battle Of The Japan Sea. By Captain A. T. Mahan, US Navy. US Naval Institute Proceedings magazine, (Article) June 1906, Volume XXXVI, No. 2, Heritage Collection.
Morison, Adm. Samuel Eliot. History of Naval Operations in World War II.
Larrabee, Eric. Commander-in-Chief: Franklin D. Roosevelt, His Lieutenants and Their War.
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
DuncanIdaho
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States465 Posts
August 11 2011 14:06 GMT
#112
On August 11 2011 21:49 zatic wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

I still maintain that the best way to structure longer guides is headlines, paragraphs, and a table of contents, like it's done pretty much everywhere else in the world except the TL strategy forum:

Table Of Contents:
Introduction
Tactics
Battles
References

Introduction
Crossing the T or Capping the T is a classic naval warfare tactic attempted from the late 19th to mid 20th century, in which a line of warships crossed in front of a line of enemy ships, allowing the crossing line to bring all their guns to bear while receiving fire from only the forward guns of the enemy.

It became possible to bring all of a ship's main guns to bear only in the late 19th and the early 20th centuries with the advent of steam-powered battleships with rotating gun turrets, which were able to move faster and turn quicker than sailing ships, which had fixed guns facing sideways. The tactic became largely obsolete with the introduction of missiles and aircraft as long-range strikes are not dependent on the direction the ships are facing.

Tactics
When going into battle, ships would assume a battle line formation called "line astern", in which one vessel followed another in one or more parallel lines. This allowed each ship to fire over wide arcs without lofting salvoes above friendly vessels. Each ship in the line generally engaged its opposite number in the enemy battle line.

Steaming with the enemy off to the side (by crossing the T) enabled a ship to launch salvoes at the same target with both the forward and rear turrets, maximizing the chances for a hit. It also made ranging error less critical for the ship doing the crossing, while simultaneously more critical for the ship being crossed. In military terms, this is known as enfilade fire. The tactic, designed for heavily armed and armored battleships, was used with varying degrees of success with more lightly armed and armored cruisers and heavy cruisers.

Advances in gun manufacture and fire-control systems allowed engagements at increasingly long range, from approximately 6,000 yards (5500 m) at the Battle of Tsushima in 1905 to 20,000 yards (18 000 m) at the Battle of Jutland in 1916. The introduction of brown powder, which burned less rapidly than black powder, allowed longer barrels, which allowed greater accuracy; and because it expanded less sharply than black powder, it put less strain on the insides of the barrel, allowing guns to last longer and to be manufactured to tighter tolerances. The addition of radar allowed World War II ships to fire further, more accurately, and at night.



Battles
Notable battles in which warships crossed the T include:
  • Battle of Tsushima (1905) – Japanese Admiral Togo, by use of wireless communications and the proper deployment of reconnaissance had positioned his fleet in such a way as to bring the Russian fleet to battle, "irrespective of speeds."[1] Togo had preserved for himself the interior lines of movement, while forcing the longer lines of movement upon his opponent, which ever course the Russian admiral should take; and by his selected positioning had the effect of "throwing the Russian broadsides more and more out of action."[2] "He had headed him"[3] (crossed his T). The Russian admiral, other than retreat or surrender, had no other option(s) other than "charging Togo's battle line" or "accepting a formal pitched battle."[4] Admiral Zinovy Rozhestvensky chose the latter, resulting in his total defeat in naval history's only decisive fleet action fought solely by modern battleships.
  • Battle of Elli (1912) – Rear Admiral Pavlos Kountouriotis aboard the Greek cruiser Georgios Averof at a speed of 20 knots crossed the T of the Turkish fleet on December 13, 1912. The Averof concentrated her fire against the Ottoman flagship, forcing the Turks to retreat.
  • Battle of Jutland (1916) – Admiral Sir John Jellicoe, leader of the British Grand Fleet, was able to cross the T twice against the German High Seas Fleets, but the German Fleet was both times able to escape by reversing course in poor visibility. Although the High Seas Fleet was thereby rendered strategically impotent, being unwilling to face the Grand Fleet again, the British were unable to gain the crushing "Second Trafalgar" they had desired. Jutland is sometimes referred to as the Battle of Lost Opportunities.
  • Battle of Cape Esperance (1942) - First United States (U.S.) naval night battle victory over the Japanese when a U.S. force of cruisers and destroyers under Norman Scott crossed the T of a cruiser–destroyer force under Aritomo Gotō. Gotō's force was approaching Guadalcanal on October 11, 1942 to bombard Henderson Field in support of a Tokyo Express reinforcement mission when it was surprised and defeated by Scott's force in a confused night battle.
  • Battle of Surigao Strait (1944) – The last time a battle line crossed the T, this engagement took place during the Battle of Leyte Gulf, in the Philippines during World War II. Early on October 25, 1944, Rear Admiral Jesse B. Oldendorf was guarding the southern entrance to the Leyte Gulf at the northern end of Surigao Strait. He commanded a line of six battleships (West Virginia, Tennessee, California, Maryland, Pennsylvania, and Mississippi), flanked by numerous heavy and light cruisers. A smaller Japanese force under Vice Admiral Shoji Nishimura came up the strait, aware of the formidable strength of the American force but nonetheless pressing on. Half of Nishimura's fleet was eliminated by the Americans' destroyer torpedoes, but the Japanese admiral continued on with his remaining few ships. Oldendorf's battleships were arrayed in a line, and they unleashed their radar-directed firepower upon Japanese vessels, whose return fire was ineffectual due to the lack of radar fire control and earlier battle damage. Nishimura went down with his ship. This was the last time the 'T' was crossed in an engagement between battleships, and was history's last occasion in which battleships fought each other.


References
Mahan, Alfred Thayer (1906). Reflections, Historic and Other, Suggested By The Battle Of The Japan Sea. By Captain A. T. Mahan, US Navy. US Naval Institute Proceedings magazine, (Article) June 1906, Volume XXXVI, No. 2, Heritage Collection.
Morison, Adm. Samuel Eliot. History of Naval Operations in World War II.
Larrabee, Eric. Commander-in-Chief: Franklin D. Roosevelt, His Lieutenants and Their War.


Wow dude, I just added the quote version of this comment to my favorites, such that i can steal the code, because I've been wondering how to do anchors for some time now, and I admit, this is way better than spoilers. Thank you so much!
The spice must flow... Grammar lesson: "than" is used for quantity comparisons, "then" is used for chronological statements. The next forum user who says, "I'd do such and such, THAN I'd do such and such else," is gonna make me cry...
DuncanIdaho
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States465 Posts
August 11 2011 17:40 GMT
#113
Hope you like this guide I just made, you inspired it's format:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253647

<3
~DuncanIdaho
The spice must flow... Grammar lesson: "than" is used for quantity comparisons, "then" is used for chronological statements. The next forum user who says, "I'd do such and such, THAN I'd do such and such else," is gonna make me cry...
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