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On August 16 2011 05:10 NewbieOne wrote:
Hey, nice idea and the coaching method intuitively sounds good. I'm a gold terran but I've played RTS games for like 16 years now (though mostly campaigns). I simply can't ever progress beyond a certain level, there are things that block me, including certain aspects of micro and macro that rely on coordination (I have a diagnosed problem with that) or multitasking. Around my peak time in TFT the guys I beat sometimes had four times my average APM (burst was more even, which is telling). According to my friend whom I actually taught to play (and he went on to play in top clans while I remained mid-skilled) and to my own observations, I was losing tons of games I shouldn't be, for strange reasons. It might be a good thing finally to fix these reasons after all these years of playing RTS. I'm inclined to think your set of exercises should be helpful in my case (though I can probably pull off #1 easily and would be tempted to skip to #3).
If I may chime in, I'd recommend that any new players (sort of like those guys you suggest come back in a month) wishing to improve to finish the Challenges first and get gold in all of them. As in, it doesn't make you gosu, but it's going to give you a grasp of things.
I am finding more and more that mechanics is my primary bottleneck. The more confidence I have in performing a series of actions the more focus I have in the game.
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I have been practising for 5 hours today. But I am unsure of what to do after 6:40. Tried a few games vs Very Hard AI. Replay
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This sounds like a great training exercise that could be adapted to each race, as it primarily trains the user to execute a standard build crisply and cleanly throughout the early game without relying on the crutch of devoting complete concentration to said execution.
I love the work put in here. I'm just adapting myself to a new hotkey setup. I'll copy down the build order and have a look a the replays, and see how well I can get up to speed on Phases 1 & 2.
But as I'm playing Random now, I'll be looking out for similar exercies for P and Z. Most Likely 4-Gate and a 14/14 or 15 Hatch speedlings build.
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When my push fails; with what should i follow up? I always expand, but do i tech to siege, or to mediviacs?
I encounter this mostly against t's who go for fast tank.
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Excellent lol. Really useful. Helps me heaps and Im sure helps others too.
However I realized that while this is great vs Protoss and also Terran, I dont know if its just me, but vs Zerg it kinda doesnt work well since they use lings and blings, making my marauders almost useless? I feel like I have to use hellions instead.
But dont get me wrong, as a "template" this is pure GG! 
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On August 16 2011 08:47 Unlogical wrote:I have been practising for 5 hours today. But I am unsure of what to do after 6:40. Tried a few games vs Very Hard AI. Replay
Check out the tips section for how to make use of the build in ladder.
On August 16 2011 19:32 davidk wrote:
When my push fails; with what should i follow up? I always expand, but do i tech to siege, or to mediviacs?
I encounter this mostly against t's who go for fast tank.
It depends on what league your in. If your in gold or lower your going to win most games if your push is on time. If your in platinum you may be ready to start learning some more advanced builds.
This build was only selected for the training and was meant to be used in ladder games until your performing it crisply under pressure.
Take a look at my Surviving Diamond guide in the tips section if your ready for the next step.
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I'm interested in lessons. I live in EST time zone but have no problem staying up late to learn! imjorman.348. I think I already have phase 1/2 mastered (platinum terran), but I certainly want to learn more!
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I practiced the build order until I had it down crisp, and while doing that also focused on never missing an SCV as well as being able to macro while not looking at my base. After a day or so of practice I went on the ladder with the 3 rax build and over the last 3 days I've won my last 14 games in a row going from rank 40 gold to rank 1:D
Half ended with the initial push, in a little less than the other half I did significant damage, like killing a zergs natural, and in only 1 or 2 games the attack didn't do well, but in any case I was in a situation where I expanded behind the pressure letting me continue to pull ahead. Also I find I have more SCV's than I know what to do with by the time my expansion is up I have 30+ SCV's mining at my main.
Thanks very much for this guide, I'm also still willing to help people as protoss if they need!
And for the person above who said they don't know what to do after 6:40, well, I usually get my expo and second gas down behind my initial attack, then it's up to you what tech path to go. The build is totally open ended. It doesn't starve your gas and it doesn't force you down any tech path. I find going straight to double starport banshee while getting 1/1 infantry works well. But that's gold league for you.
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It may also be beneficial to introduce splitting your units since 3rax is a easy build to manage with minimal actions. It's good i think to start getting used to splitting at early levels where usually players move in with a massive ball, because it's a significant micro mechanic that terran players should get used to (from the threat of banelings, fungals, collosi, et cetera). May be difficult for silver/gold, but even splitting an army into two is better than having one ball, also helps with preemptive learning for more complex builds that require you to be in two or more places at once. So maybe you can have players, as an exercise, always attack from two angles if possible, or have a small group of units attack destructible rocks as if it were an expo (or actually attack a vulnerable expo) while the main army pushes to the main base. And also as another exercise could be to regularly check the natural/third/gold every minute or so, and/or that the rally points for the barracks must be at or very near the opponent's natural, and the goal is to keep enemy units from sniping the poorly rallied units. This will teach players to learn the importance of map control and being mobile, and that it may not be wise to bunch up all your units in one spot (this is probably better for your surviving diamond post)
I really like your posts, instead of having some complicated sign up for lessons kinda thing people like to do, we can practice on our own effectively. Keep it up!
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Like I said this is truly awesome and helped me a lot. However, do you still use the same strategy vs Zerg? Most Zergs I face use banelings+zerglings, and I just feel..maybe I have to train more marines than marauders? Or even try hellions?
VS Protoss this is working sooo nicely
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Here's my replay: http://replayfu.com/r/T1j8qq
Just played my heart out on this match, went for a macro game, did a few drops, landed good EMPs, but it wasn't enough in the end  . My TvP really suffers in the mid-late game, help a brother out?
Edit: I know I botched the opening a bit, went for a lab instead of reactor by accident 
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On August 17 2011 09:41 TangFish wrote:
It may also be beneficial to introduce splitting your units since 3rax is a easy build to manage with minimal actions. It's good i think to start getting used to splitting at early levels where usually players move in with a massive ball, because it's a significant micro mechanic that terran players should get used to (from the threat of banelings, fungals, collosi, et cetera). May be difficult for silver/gold, but even splitting an army into two is better than having one ball, also helps with preemptive learning for more complex builds that require you to be in two or more places at once. So maybe you can have players, as an exercise, always attack from two angles if possible, or have a small group of units attack destructible rocks as if it were an expo (or actually attack a vulnerable expo) while the main army pushes to the main base. And also as another exercise could be to regularly check the natural/third/gold every minute or so, and/or that the rally points for the barracks must be at or very near the opponent's natural, and the goal is to keep enemy units from sniping the poorly rallied units. This will teach players to learn the importance of map control and being mobile, and that it may not be wise to bunch up all your units in one spot (this is probably better for your surviving diamond post)
This is certainly true, I sometimes wish I spent more time on micro in the past when I make terrible micro mistakes that actually make a turning point in the game. In general silver - plat and even diamond though Macro mistakes cost you more units than micro mistakes. It is only easier to see how many units your losing in a battle over how many your losing from choppy Macro.
On August 17 2011 09:50 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:Like I said this is truly awesome and helped me a lot. However, do you still use the same strategy vs Zerg? Most Zergs I face use banelings+zerglings, and I just feel..maybe I have to train more marines than marauders? Or even try hellions? VS Protoss this is working sooo nicely
Keep in mind that a win right now is executing the build correctly, not so much if you win or lose the match. Honestly this build should ONLY be used against Protoss after you have become proficient with the exercises. However it will work well enough in the lower leagues against any race.
On August 17 2011 10:29 archbounds wrote:Here's my replay: http://replayfu.com/r/T1j8qqJust played my heart out on this match, went for a macro game, did a few drops, landed good EMPs, but it wasn't enough in the end . My TvP really suffers in the mid-late game, help a brother out? Edit: I know I botched the opening a bit, went for a lab instead of reactor by accident
I would really rather see you getting the build perfect in ladder up to the 6:40 mark than winning the game. The key point here is gaining the skills that will skyrocket you out of your league, not winning one game at a time. I will try to check out the replay tonight but it seems you found your first mistake already
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On August 17 2011 10:29 archbounds wrote:Here's my replay: http://replayfu.com/r/T1j8qqJust played my heart out on this match, went for a macro game, did a few drops, landed good EMPs, but it wasn't enough in the end . My TvP really suffers in the mid-late game, help a brother out? Edit: I know I botched the opening a bit, went for a lab instead of reactor by accident
You were not performing the 3rax build in this replay. At 7:20 (when your push would have arrived) Protoss had very few units and was trying to get an expo down with a pylon done on the low ground. You would have rolled him had you followed the build.
You had NO upgrades and 38 food at 6:40.
If you want to use 2rax pressure into expand you should:
Pull a worker out of gas to build a 2nd rax while orbital is upgrading. Return to minerals afterwards so that 2 guys are in gas. Build your supply AFTER orbital completes and scv is training.
Build a reactor when the marine completes.
Build a tech lab on second rax.
Pump marauders and get shells immediately.
When first marauder completes push with your marines 1 scv and your marauder, rally to opponents natural.
Use another scv to scout proxy pylons.
Don't push up ramp, deny expo, build bunkers on low ground out of sight from ramp.
Get a bunker in your nat and place a CC directly in your natural afterwards. Get stim when you have 100 gas.
When your CC is halfway done sneak way from his nat and sell bunkers.
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On August 18 2011 02:35 Adrenaline Seed wrote:
Keep in mind that a win right now is executing the build correctly, not so much if you win or lose the match. Honestly this build should ONLY be used against Protoss after you have become proficient with the exercises. However it will work well enough in the lower leagues against any race.
What early game build would you recommend as a stepping stone after this one in the zerg/terran matchups? One that isn't so complex and is open ended similar to the 3rax.
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On August 18 2011 04:46 Adrenaline Seed wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2011 10:29 archbounds wrote:Here's my replay: http://replayfu.com/r/T1j8qqJust played my heart out on this match, went for a macro game, did a few drops, landed good EMPs, but it wasn't enough in the end . My TvP really suffers in the mid-late game, help a brother out? Edit: I know I botched the opening a bit, went for a lab instead of reactor by accident You were not performing the 3rax build in this replay. At 7:20 (when your push would have arrived) Protoss had very few units and was trying to get an expo down with a pylon done on the low ground. You would have rolled him had you followed the build. You had NO upgrades and 38 food at 6:40. If you want to use 2rax pressure into expand you should: Pull a worker out of gas to build a 2nd rax while orbital is upgrading. Return to minerals afterwards so that 2 guys are in gas. Build your supply AFTER orbital completes and scv is training. Build a reactor when the marine completes. Build a tech lab on second rax. Pump marauders and get shells immediately. When first marauder completes push with your marines 1 scv and your marauder, rally to opponents natural. Use another scv to scout proxy pylons. Don't push up ramp, deny expo, build bunkers on low ground out of sight from ramp. Get a bunker in your nat and place a CC directly in your natural afterwards. Get stim when you have 100 gas. When your CC is halfway done sneak way from his nat and sell bunkers.
Thanks! That replay didn't show my cleanest play (believe it was my 15th game of the afternoon), but the 3rax looks excellent especially against Toss of my level who seem to love either all-ins or pure macro.
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On August 18 2011 05:06 ZaeZSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2011 02:35 Adrenaline Seed wrote:
Keep in mind that a win right now is executing the build correctly, not so much if you win or lose the match. Honestly this build should ONLY be used against Protoss after you have become proficient with the exercises. However it will work well enough in the lower leagues against any race.
What early game build would you recommend as a stepping stone after this one in the zerg/terran matchups? One that isn't so complex and is open ended similar to the 3rax.
I went into the general 1-1-1 (Destiny Cloud Fist) once I hit platinum myself. Which meant I started losing a lot more games, but then I started making good use of the tech I had available to push past any of the defense that a 3rax build would lose to. I still kept my expos around 10 minutes which is terrible by today's standards.
This was awhile back before the game had evolved much though. It may still be a viable way to learn tech but the best builds now are the fast expands with a well thought out push to keep your opponent honest.
If your having trouble learning a complicated build take it one piece at a time. For example I am working on 2 new builds, TvP and TvT. I can't remember every little detail of the build in one shot but I can make sure I get the first 5 minutes perfect, if I do that I am already on my way. Now I can work on the next 5-7 minute section and so on until I am 15 minutes into the build with no mistakes. Of course my builds also have branches so there is even more to learn, but it is like anything else, one step at a time.
I have gotten to the point where I just practice in ladder, since losses don't mean your skill level is being reduced, and you learn faster against serious players. Though you should only do this if you can get over trying to win the game and focus on what you set out to do.
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Thanks for this. Spent most of the night practicing this, pretty consistently getting the 51 food, stim and conc at 6:40, started in Silver League Rank 12, still in Silver Rank 1, but won 14 of 16 games, and am now playing against gold and platinum. Almost feel ready for phase 2.
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On August 16 2011 06:50 Adrenaline Seed wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2011 05:10 NewbieOne wrote:
Hey, nice idea and the coaching method intuitively sounds good. I'm a gold terran but I've played RTS games for like 16 years now (though mostly campaigns). I simply can't ever progress beyond a certain level, there are things that block me, including certain aspects of micro and macro that rely on coordination (I have a diagnosed problem with that) or multitasking. Around my peak time in TFT the guys I beat sometimes had four times my average APM (burst was more even, which is telling). According to my friend whom I actually taught to play (and he went on to play in top clans while I remained mid-skilled) and to my own observations, I was losing tons of games I shouldn't be, for strange reasons. It might be a good thing finally to fix these reasons after all these years of playing RTS. I'm inclined to think your set of exercises should be helpful in my case (though I can probably pull off #1 easily and would be tempted to skip to #3).
If I may chime in, I'd recommend that any new players (sort of like those guys you suggest come back in a month) wishing to improve to finish the Challenges first and get gold in all of them. As in, it doesn't make you gosu, but it's going to give you a grasp of things. I am finding more and more that mechanics is my primary bottleneck. The more confidence I have in performing a series of actions the more focus I have in the game.
Same but a different specific issue with mechanics, I think. I have a knack for bad decisions (timing mostly, cheese risk assessment, sometimes unit selection) and the other part is getting hard-countered, blind-countered or helpless against a certain build or mix.
I'm going to practice your 3 rax 6:40 stim build some this weekend, hopefully. There's just so much work I can't see the end of it and I was supposed to be on a leave.
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Please read Phase 1 and upload replays relevant to the training. I would really like to help but I need replays that are relevant. Being a bit behind is one thing, not even performing the build is another.
I watched 3 replays and your doing this 9 minute push with a 40 food MM army, your building more structures than you can possibly afford to produce out of, collecting way too much gas.
It appears you have the essential mechanics to perform the build your just choosing not to.
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EPT
