EPT[L] Accelerated learning for mid/low level Terrans - Page 7
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Autofire2
Pakistan290 Posts
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
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Adrenaline Seed
United States194 Posts
On August 26 2011 21:15 KenDM wrote: I tried winging a 3-rax today just to taste how it feels. It's awkward, I got 4gated. Is this build really a solid build? I try a 1-1-1 most of the time because I'm bad at scouting and I scan the base to follow up on my build, it hasn't been bringing me the best of successes, but I'm afraid of trying the 3Rax build. ANyone have encouraging words/advice? (Maybe 2Rax 1Factory for my confidence?, or just try and learn the build?). Provide a replay where you reach 50 food around 6:40 and lose. I will be happy to analyze it. Is the build good in high level play? No, it is designed for these exercises and lower level ladder play. The build is sacrificing tech and economy in order to get a strong army and the push is designed to be before your opponent's tech becomes viable. It is also rather simple so that you can focus on improving your mechanics. | ||
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A1eks
France9 Posts
I worked hard on the build but big problem to achieve 50 food at 6:40. I m almost at 46. Then i try it on the ladder, result 15 losses, only 6 wins. Indeed it s quite an all in but I can be wrong. Don t know if I shold contune the experimentation or stop here. GL HF A1eks | ||
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
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Glueburn
United States496 Posts
On August 28 2011 05:01 KenDM wrote: OMG, this really worked for me o_O. You can check out my Battle net match history, I won almost everything today! :O But here's the thing: What do you advise for people looking to have more variety in their games? And I saw the Battle net thread for updates on 1.4 and I saw that Rax will take 65 seconds to build instead of 60, what kind of impact will that have on this play? It has been said time and time again,that repetitiveness is the best way to improve, so I wouldn't recommend doing another build. Granted, for each matchup, there ARE better builds, and you probably should find some other builds. But I'm gonna assume your lower level, and get by just fine with this build. and the 65 seconds shouldn't have a HUGE impact on the build, the base units are gonna be the same and all, it will just probably be about 5-8 seconds later. | ||
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A1eks
France9 Posts
I m now at 50 food, but still no result. 7 losses 2 wins... Should be back in bronze soon :-( . Does anyone have any ideas ? A1eks | ||
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Adrenaline Seed
United States194 Posts
On August 28 2011 10:25 A1eks wrote: Hi again, I m now at 50 food, but still no result. 7 losses 2 wins... Should be back in bronze soon :-( . Does anyone have any ideas ? A1eks Upload a couple replays man, we will get it figured out. | ||
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
--------------------------------------------- EDIT: I got owned BEFORE the 6.40 minute mark http://drop.sc/29723 How could one anticipate that? Because I didn't scout? Anyone mind checking the replay and see if there was anything I could have done? Pushed earlier? Or just bad luck? | ||
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Adrenaline Seed
United States194 Posts
On August 28 2011 21:23 KenDM wrote: Here's a nice follow-up question: What do you do AGAINST a 3Rax? I had an opponent out-3Rax me. How to scout for this? What to counter with? (Blue-flame hellions?) --------------------------------------------- EDIT: I got owned BEFORE the 6.40 minute mark http://drop.sc/29723 How could one anticipate that? Because I didn't scout? Anyone mind checking the replay and see if there was anything I could have done? Pushed earlier? Or just bad luck? This is a TvZ, not sure how Zerg would 3racks  Anyways the reason you lost this game is the zerg 1 based you. If Z does not get a fast hatch either they are going to 6 roach rush or baneling bust you. So scout that hatch timing, you will pick up on it. 2 ways to counter roach, either build a bunker or pull scvs. Either way works since zerg is making a huge sacrifice by staying on one base. If your opponent is doing 3 racks your in luck, since your build should be more crisp than theirs and should be an easy win. The only way you will lose is if you stim up ramp vs their smaller army, which will have the ramp advantage and likely kill you. You may want to start scanning the ramp or running a marine up first to scout the ramp at this point before pushing in. Explanations in the tips section. | ||
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
Anyway. TvZ: At what time should I decide he's 1Basing? As soon as I finish my second supply depot for the wall I send that SCV to scout. I even saw he had a roach warren, but I didn't know I should have had bunkers ><" ... ------------------------------- EDIT: So now I have played a couple of games and I seem to get the hang of the build but I'm stuck at Rank 3, 2 or 1 in bronze league. I have some replays where I push at the correct time but I seem to lose the match anyway. Some help one what I should focus on next? http://drop.sc/29816 - Did I overcommit? http://drop.sc/29815 - What should have gone differently? http://drop.sc/29829 - I had the unit count advantage, but I got owned, what to do? | ||
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Adrenaline Seed
United States194 Posts
On August 29 2011 17:35 KenDM wrote: Sorry my post wasn't clear, I was indeed talking about two different scenario's. Anyway. TvZ: At what time should I decide he's 1Basing? As soon as I finish my second supply depot for the wall I send that SCV to scout. I even saw he had a roach warren, but I didn't know I should have had bunkers ><" ... ------------------------------- If Z does not get hatch before pool finishes then they should get one immediately after, if not it is a 1 base all in. If you spot a roach warren, that is bonus, now you know it is a roach push and not a bane bust. Build a single bunker before roaches get to your base, use replay for timing. Use some scvs to repair. On August 29 2011 17:35 KenDM wrote: EDIT: So now I have played a couple of games and I seem to get the hang of the build but I'm stuck at Rank 3, 2 or 1 in bronze league. I have some replays where I push at the correct time but I seem to lose the match anyway. Some help one what I should focus on next? http://drop.sc/29816 - Did I overcommit? http://drop.sc/29815 - What should have gone differently? http://drop.sc/29829 - I had the unit count advantage, but I got owned, what to do? Your stuck at the top of your division? That doesn't sound so bad. It takes hundreds of games before the system can determine your next league placement. First game. 10 food behind on build Targeting void was good unfortunate it got away with like 5 health. It only takes 1 or 2 vikings to deal with void rays, not 10. They outrange voids. Medivacs would have made a big difference, since med-marine is also good against voids and they can heal your army for after you kill the void rays. Also, you can land vikings. Second game 10 food behind on build If toss goes mass Zelots (which is super rare) a heavy marauder army is not going to do so well, start making more rines and practice stutter step. With conc you can stutter step a great number of lots without taking any damage. Game 3 10 food behind on build followed be a huge series of mistakes These mistakes are common for a lower level player, so don't feel like it is anything you need to fix in a short amount of time. However you were so far ahead on this game it was silly. First mistake, you backed down ramp when you had a larger army. If you are fighting only stalkers and your marauder count is the same, do not leave. Marauders > stalkers without blink. Second mistake, After you gave him time to warp in more units you still had the advantage, you once again ended up having a much larger army but you only had 3 marauders attacking, the rest were doing laps behind your attacking marauders. Stutter step forward so that all units can shoot. This just takes some practice and watching replays to ensure all your units are attacking in every engagement. Third mistake. Bad rally, you rallied all your units to their death. If the build would have been on time the push would have won from the start however which means the only real mistake was being behind on the build, although there is a lot to learn from the scenarios that came up. Finally, common trend: 10 food behind on build. That alone will change the entire scenario in all your games. The push will come faster and/or be stronger. Either way your learning lots. | ||
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
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Adrenaline Seed
United States194 Posts
On August 30 2011 06:46 KenDM wrote: Wow thanks for the reply Adrenaline Seed. Do you think you know why I'm behind on my food count? Could it be because of the first marine I pump out of the Rax? Or wrong timing for my orbital command? Maybe it's because of the harass I keep getting? (I don't think I got harassed in these replays, but I get it a lot). I pulled up the xel-naga one just as an example and looked over the details. It starts out as a few small things that quickly snowball into a major problem. You get your gas down late, and then follow that up with a late second rax, there are also little gaps in your unit production, optimal queuing is right before not right after. There is one little gap on a scv because you can't afford it if you scout but that is ok, i am talking about all the times you could afford it. All this adds up to your floating upwards of 500 minerals while your doing the build. Your mins and gas should be bouncing off zero constantly. It might just take a bit more practice in mechanics and focus, sometimes even it is the hardware holding people back, using an LED mouse for example, or a walmart keyboard. I guess the point is that once you find what is holding you back, focus, hardware, mechanics, you can work on improving it. Once you do the speed in executing that action will forever follow you through all your builds and strategies. | ||
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Bluemalice
United States6 Posts
On August 28 2011 21:23 KenDM wrote: Here's a nice follow-up question: What do you do AGAINST a 3Rax? I had an opponent out-3Rax me. How to scout for this? What to counter with? (Blue-flame hellions?) --------------------------------------------- EDIT: I got owned BEFORE the 6.40 minute mark http://drop.sc/29723 How could one anticipate that? Because I didn't scout? Anyone mind checking the replay and see if there was anything I could have done? Pushed earlier? Or just bad luck? Also, in this TvZ you posted, you were well behind on the build. There was at least one time an SCV wasn't building for upwards of 10 seconds and similar on one of your marauders. Your barracks didn't go down in time and the reactor was late with the rax just sitting there. This build can easily beat the 7 roach rush. Happened to me several times so far. Those roaches had 4 range. Your marauders have 6. Don't stand the marauders right next to the supply depot where all the roaches can hit you. Move then back to range and let SCV's repair. If you lose some SCV's it won't matter because you will demolish his army. In between his roach pushes, throw down a bunker (which adds even more range and can be repaired from behind the wall and too far for the roaches to kill the scv's). | ||
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Adrenaline Seed
United States194 Posts
On August 30 2011 23:53 Bluemalice wrote: Also, in this TvZ you posted, you were well behind on the build. There was at least one time an SCV wasn't building for upwards of 10 seconds and similar on one of your marauders. Your barracks didn't go down in time and the reactor was late with the rax just sitting there. This build can easily beat the 7 roach rush. Happened to me several times so far. Those roaches had 4 range. Your marauders have 6. Don't stand the marauders right next to the supply depot where all the roaches can hit you. Move then back to range and let SCV's repair. If you lose some SCV's it won't matter because you will demolish his army. In between his roach pushes, throw down a bunker (which adds even more range and can be repaired from behind the wall and too far for the roaches to kill the scv's). I used to have trouble with the roach push using a reactor hellion opening, so I would build a bunker when I saw one base play and put 2 rines in it (all the units I had). I could fend off 6 roaches with 2 rines in a bunker and 4 scvs repairing. I once sat there for ages watching in awe as a bunker with 10 health being repaired killed off roach after roach followed by gg. Now I don't even both to build a bunker, which is risky but I almost always hold them off with just 4 hellions. Range, speed, and repair | ||
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NotDeadJustSlob
United States7 Posts
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Adrenaline Seed
United States194 Posts
On August 31 2011 00:50 NotDeadJustSlob wrote: I think the problem with the build, if you have not watched the original replay, is that the timing is very precise. You have to move out your SCVs at precise times to where you want to build your structures BEFORE you build them. This is not stated explicitly, but it may be something that experienced RTSers just know and don't realize that they have to state it when talking to a complete newbie. Just in the first phase so far and I have practiced the BO about 50 or 60 times, about 40 in YABOT and 20 on ladder and I still cannot hit the exact food at the exact time most of the time on ladder. This is mainly because harass and scouting from the opponent causes timing delays. I guess the timing margin of error is super thin and must be spot on in order to do enough damage with the first attack because I find if you lose that first battle, it becomes hard to scramble back to an advantageous position, even if you macro well. Very true. All the better to place the focus on discipline. | ||
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KenDM
Netherlands206 Posts
On August 31 2011 03:51 Adrenaline Seed wrote: Very true. All the better to place the focus on discipline. Well then, any tips on what to focus on in this build? Because as you know, it's quite hard to multitask, I don't even know what timings to aim for. | ||
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Adrenaline Seed
United States194 Posts
On August 31 2011 05:01 KenDM wrote: Well then, any tips on what to focus on in this build? Because as you know, it's quite hard to multitask, I don't even know what timings to aim for. That is what Phase 2 is for. | ||
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