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On August 08 2011 23:17 Penatronic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 13:43 Keilah wrote:On July 28 2011 13:49 michaelhasanalias wrote:On July 19 2011 16:58 Xylarthen wrote: On July 19 16:43FreedonNadd wrote
On July 19 2011 14:00 CrumpetGuvnor wrote:
Hide nested quote -
On July 19 2011 11:17 Fuzzwah wrote:
Quick tip to any teams with a P player; have your scout probe warp in an assimilator for your team mate. For T, this saves them losing some mining time while their SVC builds and for Z it saves them a drone.
Can you mine from an allies geyser?
Yes you can. Not if they already laid down an extractor/assimilator/refinery. But yeah, like any other open geyser you can claim it. In 2v2 you can also give each other resources after 4-5 minutes I believe, so if you need alot of gas for High Templar, or Cloaked Banshees, of Mutalisks, your partner can send you a bunch to help you pump out more units of a certain type than you might be able to otherwise. This is great for early Muta harass for example where they might be scared off early when they cannot fight a handful of Marines or a Cannon, but if you were gifted 500 gas I'm sure you can find 5 more Mutas very powerful at 8 minutes when it is common to only see 4-8. This means your partner might be able to focus very strongly on Marines or Zealots to defend on the ground when you have air-control and with minerals you might be able to donate to them. In the beta phases of the game there was a Protoss and Terran 2v2 strategy started that involved letting the Terran grab all 3 bases (Their main and the two expansions) and ramp up their Mules with 6-gas and walling off until transferring everything over to a Protoss player who had made cannons and Stargates until they had a VERY fast 200/200 Void Ray/Carrier army which is usually deadly let alone around 15 Minutes. What he means is that you can make a gas structure and with share control, your ally can mine from YOUR geyser. This is useful in certain timings, such as this example: Around 8-9 supply I send a drone to make a geyser in my Terran ally's base. Because he can mine sooner and without losing the minerals from building (ala sub-5min mineral sharing) he can get hellions out 20-25 seconds faster. It slows my speed/rush/etc by about as much time. ===== Is anyone else extremely disappointed in season 3's 2v2 map pool? It features all of ONE map which doesn't have a shared base+ramp.
I feel like they are promoting 1-base all-ins... very disappointing to say the least. I was really looking forward to some teams this season, but looks like it's back to the 1v1 scene until next season. what are you talking about? shared base/ramp in 2v2 discourages 1 base allins by making the defender's advantage greater. I would loved to see easily taken 3rds for both players, or atleast 3 easily defensible expansions per team... Most maps you get 1-2 for the whole team, kinda blows when you're Zerg v tp and You absolutely want to be up on bases. It seems like they settled for one stupid easy to defend expo, one normal expo, then very few reasonable 3rds, and never for both players.
I honestly believe that the only thing stopping zerg from being OP in 2v2 is the fact that it's so hard to grab and hold a third.
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What team composition is best?
I feel like a TT team isn't that great, but a TZ or a PZ team is good.
Is there a standard "best team composition" though?
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On August 09 2011 00:24 Nemasyst.598 wrote:
What team composition is best?
I feel like a TT team isn't that great, but a TZ or a PZ team is good.
Is there a standard "best team composition" though?
Against vZ*, ZZ absolutely dominates. One person goes mass speedling, the other roaches, and an attack at 5:30-6:00 when speed finishes is a guaranteed knockout of the Zerg player.
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On August 09 2011 00:27 RockIronrod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 00:24 Nemasyst.598 wrote:
What team composition is best?
I feel like a TT team isn't that great, but a TZ or a PZ team is good.
Is there a standard "best team composition" though? Against vZ*, ZZ absolutely dominates. One person goes mass speedling, the other roaches, and an attack at 5:30-6:00 when speed finishes is a guaranteed knockout of the Zerg player.
Makes sense.
But you can't gurantee that a Zerg player will be on the other team, so is there an overall best team comp, or is it just dependent on what your enemy is?
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On August 09 2011 00:24 Nemasyst.598 wrote:
What team composition is best?
I feel like a TT team isn't that great, but a TZ or a PZ team is good.
Is there a standard "best team composition" though?
Its generally accepted that you need a zerg. And the you dont want teams of two of the same race. Esp not PP 
TZ is currently ranked highest on the points list, however that may be due to the fact that those guys are very good.
Pretty much PZ or TZ is accepted as being the best. But its not like you cant do well without it. Im masters with over 50-50 win rate with TP
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On August 08 2011 20:53 -Dustin- wrote:
Well I decided to switch to my main race (Zerg) after I got demoted back to Diamond -.-', And just wasn't having fun as Terran anymore. I've noticed there are a TON more proxys when up against a Zerg.
So I open 11 Overpool for safety and to punish a player for not walling early and to spine rush a Zerg with my scouting Drone. Sure its cheesy but 6 Lings 1 Crawler while I'm droning useally puts me even or ahead of the Zerg. Plus it can outright win the game.
I really like to go Burrow Infestors and use IT to snipe expos while my partner seiges other expos and draws their forces. I useally stay on low Drone counts and tech to Ultras/BLs, Other games when my partner has enough defense I will get an upwards of 90 Drones and just remax Over and over. My army may not do much damage but I can easily remax the entire thing with ease while dropping Lings in minerals lines and Etc.
I have a friend thats started 2v2ing with me hes Protoss. What are some good 2v2 Strats with ZP vs Anything. I was thinking something like Ling/Bling mostly Bling to take out Bio while he 2 Robo Chronos Immortals while I feed him Gas+Mins. As long as he is good at target firing the Roaches/Stalks/Maruaders it seems viable to be. But thats just theory craft will test as soon as I can.
Thats quite hard to read tbh so i split it up a bit.
I personally also do 11 overpool in my games because it saves you against a lot of early cheeses like cannon rushes and proxys. Also, infestors are absolutly awsome! I love them, especially in team games where players attension is more likely to be else where. Also, baneling bombs work quite well, load up 4 overlords with banelings and send 2 to each of you opponents bases and set them up to drop their load right in the mineral line.
As for the ZP 2v2 strats, 10 pool and mass stalker works well because both the lings and stalkers are very fast and can work well together as a rush strategy, you could also try 10 pool and 2 gate zealot. Also something like infestors with Sentries, HT or Collosus are really good for longer macro games.
Im not so keen on going ling baneling unless im against a double terran team, but thats just personal preferance. Generally if im with a Protoss ally i will go ling roach and then infestors while they get their gateway army with collosus which is great if we manage to survive until a critical number of collosus or they rush air (very risky) leaving me to defend the 2v1
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TZ is the most dynamic, I'd say . I have a slew of strats we use. Obviously sling hellion. Mara marine stim rush with roaches. Marine roach. Marine tank roach. Shared base gas feed for fast mutas.
PZ has a lot of cheese solid rushes. zeal/sling high ground warp in. 4 gate + roach. Sling pressure + dt or VR etc.
So it's a toss between TZ and PZ.
TZ is is just mobile. Very mobile, and abusive. When we sling hellion, my ally gets early banes, and we split harass. He busts up any units, I slip and fuck up mineral lines, into a transition instead of cloakshees (like everyone does?) I go into 3 fac tank push lol
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On August 09 2011 00:49 FlaminGinjaNinja wrote:
Thats quite hard to read tbh so i split it up a bit.
I personally also do 11 overpool in my games because it saves you against a lot of early cheeses like cannon rushes and proxys. Also, infestors are absolutly awsome! I love them, especially in team games where players attension is more likely to be else where. Also, baneling bombs work quite well, load up 4 overlords with banelings and send 2 to each of you opponents bases and set them up to drop their load right in the mineral line.
Apologize about the wall of text! Was at work and had to hurry it up. I really only get Blings if a Terran is mass Rines, A Zerg mass Lings, or a Toss going Chargelot Archon. Was just a little theory craft going to test if my friend ever gets online. I'm not fond of rushing will do it but not if I don't have to.
But then again when I do 6Lings+Spine crawler rush on a Zerg but its not really 'All-in' as I'm droning behind it.
I really like a Toss with a few Phons lifting the most important units Ie: Infestors, Templars, Ghosts, And Tanks. I think my biggest problem in 2v2s is knowing when to expand, Some games I expand to early and lose, Others I expand to late and fall behind on economy. But I guess I'll learn all that as time goes on.
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On August 09 2011 00:38 Nemasyst.598 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 00:27 RockIronrod wrote:On August 09 2011 00:24 Nemasyst.598 wrote:
What team composition is best?
I feel like a TT team isn't that great, but a TZ or a PZ team is good.
Is there a standard "best team composition" though? Against vZ*, ZZ absolutely dominates. One person goes mass speedling, the other roaches, and an attack at 5:30-6:00 when speed finishes is a guaranteed knockout of the Zerg player. Makes sense. But you can't gurantee that a Zerg player will be on the other team, so is there an overall best team comp, or is it just dependent on what your enemy is?
ZT is the best team comp, and the easiest to be good at.
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On August 08 2011 23:20 aztecx wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 23:17 Penatronic wrote:On August 08 2011 13:43 Keilah wrote:On July 28 2011 13:49 michaelhasanalias wrote:On July 19 2011 16:58 Xylarthen wrote: On July 19 16:43FreedonNadd wrote
On July 19 2011 14:00 CrumpetGuvnor wrote:
Hide nested quote -
On July 19 2011 11:17 Fuzzwah wrote:
Quick tip to any teams with a P player; have your scout probe warp in an assimilator for your team mate. For T, this saves them losing some mining time while their SVC builds and for Z it saves them a drone.
Can you mine from an allies geyser?
Yes you can. Not if they already laid down an extractor/assimilator/refinery. But yeah, like any other open geyser you can claim it. In 2v2 you can also give each other resources after 4-5 minutes I believe, so if you need alot of gas for High Templar, or Cloaked Banshees, of Mutalisks, your partner can send you a bunch to help you pump out more units of a certain type than you might be able to otherwise. This is great for early Muta harass for example where they might be scared off early when they cannot fight a handful of Marines or a Cannon, but if you were gifted 500 gas I'm sure you can find 5 more Mutas very powerful at 8 minutes when it is common to only see 4-8. This means your partner might be able to focus very strongly on Marines or Zealots to defend on the ground when you have air-control and with minerals you might be able to donate to them. In the beta phases of the game there was a Protoss and Terran 2v2 strategy started that involved letting the Terran grab all 3 bases (Their main and the two expansions) and ramp up their Mules with 6-gas and walling off until transferring everything over to a Protoss player who had made cannons and Stargates until they had a VERY fast 200/200 Void Ray/Carrier army which is usually deadly let alone around 15 Minutes. What he means is that you can make a gas structure and with share control, your ally can mine from YOUR geyser. This is useful in certain timings, such as this example: Around 8-9 supply I send a drone to make a geyser in my Terran ally's base. Because he can mine sooner and without losing the minerals from building (ala sub-5min mineral sharing) he can get hellions out 20-25 seconds faster. It slows my speed/rush/etc by about as much time. ===== Is anyone else extremely disappointed in season 3's 2v2 map pool? It features all of ONE map which doesn't have a shared base+ramp.
I feel like they are promoting 1-base all-ins... very disappointing to say the least. I was really looking forward to some teams this season, but looks like it's back to the 1v1 scene until next season. what are you talking about? shared base/ramp in 2v2 discourages 1 base allins by making the defender's advantage greater. I would loved to see easily taken 3rds for both players, or atleast 3 easily defensible expansions per team... Most maps you get 1-2 for the whole team, kinda blows when you're Zerg v tp and You absolutely want to be up on bases. It seems like they settled for one stupid easy to defend expo, one normal expo, then very few reasonable 3rds, and never for both players. I honestly believe that the only thing stopping zerg from being OP in 2v2 is the fact that it's so hard to grab and hold a third.
What Race(s) do you play? I play random and I absolutely hate playing vs PT in midgame because it almost always is 2 base, which everyone knows means z is behind.
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On August 09 2011 01:43 Penatronic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 23:20 aztecx wrote:On August 08 2011 23:17 Penatronic wrote:On August 08 2011 13:43 Keilah wrote:On July 28 2011 13:49 michaelhasanalias wrote:On July 19 2011 16:58 Xylarthen wrote: On July 19 16:43FreedonNadd wrote
On July 19 2011 14:00 CrumpetGuvnor wrote:
Hide nested quote -
On July 19 2011 11:17 Fuzzwah wrote:
Quick tip to any teams with a P player; have your scout probe warp in an assimilator for your team mate. For T, this saves them losing some mining time while their SVC builds and for Z it saves them a drone.
Can you mine from an allies geyser?
Yes you can. Not if they already laid down an extractor/assimilator/refinery. But yeah, like any other open geyser you can claim it. In 2v2 you can also give each other resources after 4-5 minutes I believe, so if you need alot of gas for High Templar, or Cloaked Banshees, of Mutalisks, your partner can send you a bunch to help you pump out more units of a certain type than you might be able to otherwise. This is great for early Muta harass for example where they might be scared off early when they cannot fight a handful of Marines or a Cannon, but if you were gifted 500 gas I'm sure you can find 5 more Mutas very powerful at 8 minutes when it is common to only see 4-8. This means your partner might be able to focus very strongly on Marines or Zealots to defend on the ground when you have air-control and with minerals you might be able to donate to them. In the beta phases of the game there was a Protoss and Terran 2v2 strategy started that involved letting the Terran grab all 3 bases (Their main and the two expansions) and ramp up their Mules with 6-gas and walling off until transferring everything over to a Protoss player who had made cannons and Stargates until they had a VERY fast 200/200 Void Ray/Carrier army which is usually deadly let alone around 15 Minutes. What he means is that you can make a gas structure and with share control, your ally can mine from YOUR geyser. This is useful in certain timings, such as this example: Around 8-9 supply I send a drone to make a geyser in my Terran ally's base. Because he can mine sooner and without losing the minerals from building (ala sub-5min mineral sharing) he can get hellions out 20-25 seconds faster. It slows my speed/rush/etc by about as much time. ===== Is anyone else extremely disappointed in season 3's 2v2 map pool? It features all of ONE map which doesn't have a shared base+ramp.
I feel like they are promoting 1-base all-ins... very disappointing to say the least. I was really looking forward to some teams this season, but looks like it's back to the 1v1 scene until next season. what are you talking about? shared base/ramp in 2v2 discourages 1 base allins by making the defender's advantage greater. I would loved to see easily taken 3rds for both players, or atleast 3 easily defensible expansions per team... Most maps you get 1-2 for the whole team, kinda blows when you're Zerg v tp and You absolutely want to be up on bases. It seems like they settled for one stupid easy to defend expo, one normal expo, then very few reasonable 3rds, and never for both players. I honestly believe that the only thing stopping zerg from being OP in 2v2 is the fact that it's so hard to grab and hold a third. What Race(s) do you play? I play random and I absolutely hate playing vs PT in midgame because it almost always is 2 base, which everyone knows means z is behind.
So, with a terran ally, drone up, get warren, get roaches, feed terran gas, terran 2 facs and goes tank. Push at 8 minutes with 5 tanks before TP tanks are out, and before they can safely hold 2 bases.
Roach marine tank, there ya go. A good TZ strat vs TP
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My friend and I are attempting to make our way to the top of the SEA ladder over the next few days and we really aren't far off. If anyone is interested, I can upload some replays.
In the meantime, here's an amusing replay which shows why you should never tap out. Please excuse the astronomical screw up with my forcefields. My sentry somehow got stuck a millimetre too far to the right and wouldn't throw down the second FF.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-225325.jpg)
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On August 08 2011 23:20 aztecx wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2011 23:17 Penatronic wrote:On August 08 2011 13:43 Keilah wrote:On July 28 2011 13:49 michaelhasanalias wrote:On July 19 2011 16:58 Xylarthen wrote: On July 19 16:43FreedonNadd wrote
On July 19 2011 14:00 CrumpetGuvnor wrote:
Hide nested quote -
On July 19 2011 11:17 Fuzzwah wrote:
Quick tip to any teams with a P player; have your scout probe warp in an assimilator for your team mate. For T, this saves them losing some mining time while their SVC builds and for Z it saves them a drone.
Can you mine from an allies geyser?
Yes you can. Not if they already laid down an extractor/assimilator/refinery. But yeah, like any other open geyser you can claim it. In 2v2 you can also give each other resources after 4-5 minutes I believe, so if you need alot of gas for High Templar, or Cloaked Banshees, of Mutalisks, your partner can send you a bunch to help you pump out more units of a certain type than you might be able to otherwise. This is great for early Muta harass for example where they might be scared off early when they cannot fight a handful of Marines or a Cannon, but if you were gifted 500 gas I'm sure you can find 5 more Mutas very powerful at 8 minutes when it is common to only see 4-8. This means your partner might be able to focus very strongly on Marines or Zealots to defend on the ground when you have air-control and with minerals you might be able to donate to them. In the beta phases of the game there was a Protoss and Terran 2v2 strategy started that involved letting the Terran grab all 3 bases (Their main and the two expansions) and ramp up their Mules with 6-gas and walling off until transferring everything over to a Protoss player who had made cannons and Stargates until they had a VERY fast 200/200 Void Ray/Carrier army which is usually deadly let alone around 15 Minutes. What he means is that you can make a gas structure and with share control, your ally can mine from YOUR geyser. This is useful in certain timings, such as this example: Around 8-9 supply I send a drone to make a geyser in my Terran ally's base. Because he can mine sooner and without losing the minerals from building (ala sub-5min mineral sharing) he can get hellions out 20-25 seconds faster. It slows my speed/rush/etc by about as much time. ===== Is anyone else extremely disappointed in season 3's 2v2 map pool? It features all of ONE map which doesn't have a shared base+ramp.
I feel like they are promoting 1-base all-ins... very disappointing to say the least. I was really looking forward to some teams this season, but looks like it's back to the 1v1 scene until next season. what are you talking about? shared base/ramp in 2v2 discourages 1 base allins by making the defender's advantage greater. I would loved to see easily taken 3rds for both players, or atleast 3 easily defensible expansions per team... Most maps you get 1-2 for the whole team, kinda blows when you're Zerg v tp and You absolutely want to be up on bases. It seems like they settled for one stupid easy to defend expo, one normal expo, then very few reasonable 3rds, and never for both players. I honestly believe that the only thing stopping zerg from being OP in 2v2 is the fact that it's so hard to grab and hold a third.
I think it's in the maps: It's often not easy to hold an open natural as non-zerg against speedlings (coupled with the fact that many of the maps don't have particularly good naturals at all)
Zerg can handle having open bases more easily.
On the other reason, the openness of many bases and naturals means zerg can have an easier time assaulting them.
Maps with shared bases can be much more difficult for ZX vs XX to handle - too bad they took some of these out, and the ones that are still in have almost nothing resembling a natural expo.
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On August 09 2011 01:40 aztecx wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 00:38 Nemasyst.598 wrote:On August 09 2011 00:27 RockIronrod wrote:On August 09 2011 00:24 Nemasyst.598 wrote:
What team composition is best?
I feel like a TT team isn't that great, but a TZ or a PZ team is good.
Is there a standard "best team composition" though? Against vZ*, ZZ absolutely dominates. One person goes mass speedling, the other roaches, and an attack at 5:30-6:00 when speed finishes is a guaranteed knockout of the Zerg player. Makes sense. But you can't gurantee that a Zerg player will be on the other team, so is there an overall best team comp, or is it just dependent on what your enemy is? ZT is the best team comp, and the easiest to be good at.
Sweet, thanks ;D
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On August 08 2011 14:08 iAmJeffReY wrote:Show nested quote +what are you talking about? shared base/ramp in 2v2 discourages 1 base allins by making the defender's advantage greater. Me and my man henry got a TZ strat vs TP or any shared base map where I gas first and reactor rax (looks like sling hellion) but he roaches, and I get 5 tanks + siege out by 7:15 and at enemies base by 8 min. So far it can hold 4 gate + roach, sling hellion, hellion roach. Not only hold, but out right win the game. We were 1k masters team last season (35-23 or something) and so far are 10-1 this season. I actually enjoy facing TP on shared bases. Beyond BALLER phoenix control, the damage will clear their shared base and hits before T can have tanks out. We, as a TZ team, were at a loss vs TP shared base. Not anymore. The henryjeffy 5 tank marine roach push !!!
This is actually quite helpful. Thanks for that. Been looking for a way to punish TP with these new shared bases.
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On August 09 2011 01:46 iAmJeffReY wrote:
So, with a terran ally, drone up, get warren, get roaches, feed terran gas, terran 2 facs and goes tank. Push at 8 minutes with 5 tanks before TP tanks are out, and before they can safely hold 2 bases.
Roach marine tank, there ya go. A good TZ strat vs TP
Hm.. we're a TP team and top in our master division;
How do you handle a TP doing a faster tank push-contain?
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On August 09 2011 05:12 kardinal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2011 01:46 iAmJeffReY wrote:
So, with a terran ally, drone up, get warren, get roaches, feed terran gas, terran 2 facs and goes tank. Push at 8 minutes with 5 tanks before TP tanks are out, and before they can safely hold 2 bases.
Roach marine tank, there ya go. A good TZ strat vs TP
Hm.. we're a TP team and top in our master division; How do you handle a TP doing a faster tank push-contain?
There are obviously counters to the build, what he's saying is that roach tank with marine support is very strong. Could you put up some replays of you and your partner doing the tank push-contain? I'd quite like to see it
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about me: I'm MisterT, a high diamond zerg in 2v2 RT, but I'm only plat with my friends (AT) because they are trolls. -_______- Anyway, I have some replays for you guys, feel free to critique, learn from, or just enjoy them.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-225434.jpg)
here's a replay showing how the weakness of one unit can be fulfilled by others. In this case, the sim-city and static defense prevented my lings from getting much action. However, my allies tanks pretty much ignores all that crap and we win (obviously).
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-225437.jpg)
here's the dreaded double zerg combo doing its thing with some sling/bling action. Not even the unstoppable hellion can stop the unstoppable duo of unstoppability.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-225439.jpg)
here's another dreaded double zerg combing not quite doing its thing with slow lings and no blings. And it gets stopped by the unstoppable hellion, which stops the unstoppable non-duo of unstoppability, which makes it stoppable.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-225442.jpg)
Here, I expanded like crazy and fed all my resources to my BROtoss friend (who happens to be female) who went mass blink stalker. I microed the stalkers a bit and we overcame the unst-, errr annoying combo of mass speedling+MM ball.
More replays later if I feel like playing -____-
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On August 09 2011 07:40 FlaminGinjaNinja wrote:There are obviously counters to the build, what he's saying is that roach tank with marine support is very strong. Could you put up some replays of you and your partner doing the tank push-contain? I'd quite like to see it
Unfortunately I only save replays where we mess up badly and need improving and out of them this one was the most "acceptable". I was merely pointing out from before that a 5 tank push will be defeated by an earlier tank push that contains you first unless severe mistakes are made.
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-225477.jpg)
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TP is vulnerable to rushes. if you scout well and compensate for rush weakness with extra defense you become very strong during midgame stages.
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EPT
