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On July 19 2011 16:58 Xylarthen wrote:Show nested quote + On July 19 16:43FreedonNadd wrote
On July 19 2011 14:00 CrumpetGuvnor wrote:
Hide nested quote -
On July 19 2011 11:17 Fuzzwah wrote:
Quick tip to any teams with a P player; have your scout probe warp in an assimilator for your team mate. For T, this saves them losing some mining time while their SVC builds and for Z it saves them a drone.
Can you mine from an allies geyser?
Yes you can. Not if they already laid down an extractor/assimilator/refinery. But yeah, like any other open geyser you can claim it. In 2v2 you can also give each other resources after 4-5 minutes I believe, so if you need alot of gas for High Templar, or Cloaked Banshees, of Mutalisks, your partner can send you a bunch to help you pump out more units of a certain type than you might be able to otherwise. This is great for early Muta harass for example where they might be scared off early when they cannot fight a handful of Marines or a Cannon, but if you were gifted 500 gas I'm sure you can find 5 more Mutas very powerful at 8 minutes when it is common to only see 4-8. This means your partner might be able to focus very strongly on Marines or Zealots to defend on the ground when you have air-control and with minerals you might be able to donate to them. In the beta phases of the game there was a Protoss and Terran 2v2 strategy started that involved letting the Terran grab all 3 bases (Their main and the two expansions) and ramp up their Mules with 6-gas and walling off until transferring everything over to a Protoss player who had made cannons and Stargates until they had a VERY fast 200/200 Void Ray/Carrier army which is usually deadly let alone around 15 Minutes.
What he means is that you can make a gas structure and with share control, your ally can mine from YOUR geyser.
This is useful in certain timings, such as this example:
Around 8-9 supply I send a drone to make a geyser in my Terran ally's base. Because he can mine sooner and without losing the minerals from building (ala sub-5min mineral sharing) he can get hellions out 20-25 seconds faster.
It slows my speed/rush/etc by about as much time.
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Is anyone else extremely disappointed in season 3's 2v2 map pool? It features all of ONE map which doesn't have a shared base+ramp.
I feel like they are promoting 1-base all-ins... very disappointing to say the least. I was really looking forward to some teams this season, but looks like it's back to the 1v1 scene until next season.
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I play more 2v2 than 1v1. Mostly go for 11 marines + 7 roach rush on 5:00 which can be devastating on small maps. It hits before 4gate, cloacked banshe and DT rush goes online, and then its just 2v1.
Especially if you talk on skype it is a very nice experience, much less stressing thatn 1v1.
Share the win, but also share defeat!
I like this thread, i shows that sc2 is not about playing one race against one person. There are 3 races, and you can play in team as well! It expands the game a lot.
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I've been playing alot more 2v2s recently as Terran its actually quite fun, Gets a little stressful when your partner doesn't even help or talk ask them what their gameplan is and get some stupid reply, Its not really team worky. It does seem a hell of alot easier to league up than in 1v1, I guess its because your partners can carry you in your weakness if its macro/micro, Unlike 1v1 you don't need to be perfect in both to get high up, I really need some terran builds :p, I've been using either Mass rine/BF Hellion drops into mech. Mech is so effective with little effort, Its just seige wait a-move.
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On July 28 2011 22:29 -Dustin- wrote:
I've been playing alot more 2v2s recently as Terran its actually quite fun, Gets a little stressful when your partner doesn't even help or talk ask them what their gameplan is and get some stupid reply, Its not really team worky. It does seem a hell of alot easier to league up than in 1v1, I guess its because your partners can carry you in your weakness if its macro/micro, Unlike 1v1 you don't need to be perfect in both to get high up, I really need some terran builds :p, I've been using either Mass rine/BF Hellion drops into mech. Mech is so effective with little effort, Its just seige wait a-move.
Standard terran openings I typically use:
3-4 rax stim expo (2 techlabs, usually wait for reactors for later to spend gas elsewhere)
Gives strong early game army for offense/defense, strong early timings.
1-1-1 builds into expo. recently targeted at getting 1 reactored factory making bf hellions and two starports on banshees, but any variation works out well if your ally is strong enough to defend very early pressure.
Good tech flexibility and harass capabilities. Very easy to swap around reactors and Techlabs
On factories and starports to counter opponents while complimenting allies army.
Marine tank expands. Ally should have gate/rax/roach stuff early for some mobile meat to protect the tanks.
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Blink stalkers are very, very good in 2v2. It's pretty unlikely your ally wont be able to spot for you up cliffs allowing you to harass freely, and stalkers can serve as the meatshield for something with higher DPS / more fragile like Colossi, tanks, etc.
Followup with storm and upgrades and some anti-marauder, and you have something very hard to stop for the common Zerg /Terran team.
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On July 29 2011 02:31 Penatronic wrote:
Standard terran openings I typically use:
3-4 rax stim expo (2 techlabs, usually wait for reactors for later to spend gas elsewhere)
Gives strong early game army for offense/defense, strong early timings.
1-1-1 builds into expo. recently targeted at getting 1 reactored factory making bf hellions and two starports on banshees, but any variation works out well if your ally is strong enough to defend very early pressure.
Good tech flexibility and harass capabilities. Very easy to swap around reactors and Techlabs
On factories and starports to counter opponents while complimenting allies army.
Marine tank expands. Ally should have gate/rax/roach stuff early for some mobile meat to protect the tanks.
Thanks for the info sir, I don't really like going bio but I will when its needed, I do like 1-1-1 never tried doing BF and shees. The only time I ever tried Marine Tank is to push early or if my partner wants me to defend while he macros up, My biggest problem is the Muta timing when playing mech I never have any Marines and end up forgetting Turrets and get insta gged by Mutas -.-.
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On July 28 2011 22:29 -Dustin- wrote:
I've been playing alot more 2v2s recently as Terran its actually quite fun, Gets a little stressful when your partner doesn't even help or talk ask them what their gameplan is and get some stupid reply, Its not really team worky. It does seem a hell of alot easier to league up than in 1v1, I guess its because your partners can carry you in your weakness if its macro/micro, Unlike 1v1 you don't need to be perfect in both to get high up, I really need some terran builds :p, I've been using either Mass rine/BF Hellion drops into mech. Mech is so effective with little effort, Its just seige wait a-move.
The top 2v2r Terrans on SEA (Okharon & Comisod) use a very solid marine/tank defensive play-style. I'm 90% sure they do this regardless of what their teammate is doing (at least Okharon does). I think it's actually a very smart and solid tactic because you should never trust your teammate in a 2v2 game unless you know who they are. Especially if you're one of the best, you can only assume they're weaker than you. Personally, since I play Z I find that I have to adjust my play to support my teammate. I simply ask them at the start what they're going to do and adjust to that. If there is any chance at getting an FE up (only against non-zerg team) I also try that because it is more than likely I'm going to be carrying.
It is very easy to league up in team games, but maintaining a 75%+ win-rate in 2v2 AT or a 60-65% win-rate in 2v2r is not as easy as you think. Honestly, looking at win-rate over a large sample size is the only way to judge skill in 2v2. It doesn't matter if you're top 10 2v2 AT in points if your win-rate is 55-60%. Once you get to 75%+ for non-ZT teams you have really got yourself a top-tier team. Anything over 80% and they're more than likely going to be the best team on the server. It's a lot easier to maintain 75%+ as ZT so I don't like to include the combination when judging a teams skill 
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for those looking for an easy build, i got into high master 2v2 just by doing 5 or 6 rax marine builds. a lot of people i know do this. paired with stalker or roach its pretty unbeatable. this doesnt work for the longer 2v2 maps, but is devastating and simple as the marines just do unbelievable DPS and the roaches tank.
counters are:
tanks on shared base maps (if not shared just go for the ally)
double P very good stalker / sentry micro
this is more theoretical, but roach / bane
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your Country52797 Posts
On maps with small rush distances，both players can do a turbo 2 rax marine rush：
9 depot
10 rax
11 rax
Pump marines nonstop and attack at the 4 minute mark，or get another rax at 13 and attack at 4：30。
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On August 02 2011 22:34 familyguy123 wrote:
for those looking for an easy build, i got into high master 2v2 just by doing 5 or 6 rax marine builds. a lot of people i know do this. paired with stalker or roach its pretty unbeatable. this doesnt work for the longer 2v2 maps, but is devastating and simple as the marines just do unbelievable DPS and the roaches tank.
counters are:
tanks on shared base maps (if not shared just go for the ally)
double P very good stalker / sentry micro
this is more theoretical, but roach / bane
I think if you're going to do marine/roaches, it's probably better to do a stimmed timing attack with roaches. Going 5-6 rax rines and then waiting for a zerg to get his roaches out is kind of stupid. Not to mention you're going to get completely owned by any team who has half a brain.Marines are also very slow to replenish and by doing this build you have absolutely no map control.
I think there are much stronger all-ins than this.
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On July 19 2011 13:41 Dhalphir wrote:
I don't think its possible to take random 2v2 seriously and not end up hating yourself, hating the game, hating all of humanity and hating life in general. The possibility for shitty teammates causing you to lose to even shittier opponents is too high.
When I play random 2v2 its just for warmup or when I want to practise a 1v1 build and don't want to do so in 1v1 or a build order tester.
However, it CAN be a fun way to play with an arranged teammate.
So 100% f-ing true when the game went retail a year ago, less true now. One time, after barely losing a 2v1, I look at my allies base and see a line of hatcheries from his base to the opponents base...like he didn't know what a creep tumor was.
Every once in a while though, I'll get the protoss ally that cannons in his main on a fortress map and then yells at me for not building enough defense. Sigh...
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On July 19 2011 11:17 Fuzzwah wrote:
Quick tip to any teams with a P player; have your scout probe warp in an assimilator for your team mate. For T, this saves them losing some mining time while their SVC builds and for Z it saves them a drone.
.... How about travel time for my protoss partner? I'm sure he could have minded the same amount of minerals instead of taking a trip into my base.
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Hello, i realise it's been almost a week since the last post but i have some replays of some games i just played with a friend
I am a gold level 1v1 and in a couple of masters teams but mostly plat/diamond for team games. My ally Laura is in bronze for 1v1 (imo should be silver) and these are our placement matches that we played one after the other using the same tactic in each. All games are ling hellion (then banshee), we are on skype chatting and i have unit control of her hellions
Game 1
ZTvZZ
+ Show Spoiler +The two Zergs tried to tech and expand. Strange thing about this game was one of the zergs had 1000 1v1 wins as Z and the other had 1000 team game wins as Z but one was gold and the other silver  [ ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-225239.jpg) [/url]
Game 2
ZTvPT
+ Show Spoiler +Terran goes Marauder while Protoss goes 1 gate robo
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-225240.jpg)
Game 3
ZTvPZ
+ Show Spoiler +Zerg goes banelings after seeing my mass ling, Protoss does some sort of 2 gate into 4 gate build. They manage to hold until banshees arrive
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-225241.jpg)
Game 4
ZTvPZ
+ Show Spoiler +Protoss semi walls in and goes 3 gate forge, Zerg attempts to expand but can not saturate because of pressure. Proxy pylon causes some issues near the end
Game 5
ZTvZT
+ Show Spoiler +Terran walls in and goes Mass Marine, Zerg goes roach and they push. Unable to do damage because of the wall, this was the only game we lost
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-225243.jpg)
I'd like to point out that because both me and my ally are lower level the standard of macro and micro are both awful, these games were the first time we'd tried this strategy, me having just shown her how to do it in a custom again very easy AI
Also, yes i realise i forget my gas in a couple of games, and yes in the games i remembered i then forgot to research speed -.-'
These replays are to show how effective ling hellion is in 2v2, a lot of high level players use this strategy and it is difficult to know how to stop it
Hope you enjoy the games!
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On August 02 2011 23:37 Emperor_Earth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2011 11:17 Fuzzwah wrote:
Quick tip to any teams with a P player; have your scout probe warp in an assimilator for your team mate. For T, this saves them losing some mining time while their SVC builds and for Z it saves them a drone. .... How about travel time for my protoss partner? I'm sure he could have minded the same amount of minerals instead of taking a trip into my base.
I think he meant for shared bases, it is obviously not worth it otherwise ^^
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On July 28 2011 13:49 michaelhasanalias wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2011 16:58 Xylarthen wrote: On July 19 16:43FreedonNadd wrote
On July 19 2011 14:00 CrumpetGuvnor wrote:
Hide nested quote -
On July 19 2011 11:17 Fuzzwah wrote:
Quick tip to any teams with a P player; have your scout probe warp in an assimilator for your team mate. For T, this saves them losing some mining time while their SVC builds and for Z it saves them a drone.
Can you mine from an allies geyser?
Yes you can. Not if they already laid down an extractor/assimilator/refinery. But yeah, like any other open geyser you can claim it. In 2v2 you can also give each other resources after 4-5 minutes I believe, so if you need alot of gas for High Templar, or Cloaked Banshees, of Mutalisks, your partner can send you a bunch to help you pump out more units of a certain type than you might be able to otherwise. This is great for early Muta harass for example where they might be scared off early when they cannot fight a handful of Marines or a Cannon, but if you were gifted 500 gas I'm sure you can find 5 more Mutas very powerful at 8 minutes when it is common to only see 4-8. This means your partner might be able to focus very strongly on Marines or Zealots to defend on the ground when you have air-control and with minerals you might be able to donate to them. In the beta phases of the game there was a Protoss and Terran 2v2 strategy started that involved letting the Terran grab all 3 bases (Their main and the two expansions) and ramp up their Mules with 6-gas and walling off until transferring everything over to a Protoss player who had made cannons and Stargates until they had a VERY fast 200/200 Void Ray/Carrier army which is usually deadly let alone around 15 Minutes. What he means is that you can make a gas structure and with share control, your ally can mine from YOUR geyser. This is useful in certain timings, such as this example: Around 8-9 supply I send a drone to make a geyser in my Terran ally's base. Because he can mine sooner and without losing the minerals from building (ala sub-5min mineral sharing) he can get hellions out 20-25 seconds faster. It slows my speed/rush/etc by about as much time. ===== Is anyone else extremely disappointed in season 3's 2v2 map pool? It features all of ONE map which doesn't have a shared base+ramp.
I feel like they are promoting 1-base all-ins... very disappointing to say the least. I was really looking forward to some teams this season, but looks like it's back to the 1v1 scene until next season.
what are you talking about? shared base/ramp in 2v2 discourages 1 base allins by making the defender's advantage greater.
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what are you talking about? shared base/ramp in 2v2 discourages 1 base allins by making the defender's advantage greater.
Me and my man henry got a TZ strat vs TP or any shared base map where I gas first and reactor rax (looks like sling hellion) but he roaches, and I get 5 tanks + siege out by 7:15 and at enemies base by 8 min.
So far it can hold 4 gate + roach, sling hellion, hellion roach. Not only hold, but out right win the game. We were 1k masters team last season (35-23 or something) and so far are 10-1 this season.
I actually enjoy facing TP on shared bases. Beyond BALLER phoenix control, the damage will clear their shared base and hits before T can have tanks out. We, as a TZ team, were at a loss vs TP shared base. Not anymore. The henryjeffy 5 tank marine roach push !!!
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On August 08 2011 13:43 Keilah wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 13:49 michaelhasanalias wrote:On July 19 2011 16:58 Xylarthen wrote: On July 19 16:43FreedonNadd wrote
On July 19 2011 14:00 CrumpetGuvnor wrote:
Hide nested quote -
On July 19 2011 11:17 Fuzzwah wrote:
Quick tip to any teams with a P player; have your scout probe warp in an assimilator for your team mate. For T, this saves them losing some mining time while their SVC builds and for Z it saves them a drone.
Can you mine from an allies geyser?
Yes you can. Not if they already laid down an extractor/assimilator/refinery. But yeah, like any other open geyser you can claim it. In 2v2 you can also give each other resources after 4-5 minutes I believe, so if you need alot of gas for High Templar, or Cloaked Banshees, of Mutalisks, your partner can send you a bunch to help you pump out more units of a certain type than you might be able to otherwise. This is great for early Muta harass for example where they might be scared off early when they cannot fight a handful of Marines or a Cannon, but if you were gifted 500 gas I'm sure you can find 5 more Mutas very powerful at 8 minutes when it is common to only see 4-8. This means your partner might be able to focus very strongly on Marines or Zealots to defend on the ground when you have air-control and with minerals you might be able to donate to them. In the beta phases of the game there was a Protoss and Terran 2v2 strategy started that involved letting the Terran grab all 3 bases (Their main and the two expansions) and ramp up their Mules with 6-gas and walling off until transferring everything over to a Protoss player who had made cannons and Stargates until they had a VERY fast 200/200 Void Ray/Carrier army which is usually deadly let alone around 15 Minutes. What he means is that you can make a gas structure and with share control, your ally can mine from YOUR geyser. This is useful in certain timings, such as this example: Around 8-9 supply I send a drone to make a geyser in my Terran ally's base. Because he can mine sooner and without losing the minerals from building (ala sub-5min mineral sharing) he can get hellions out 20-25 seconds faster. It slows my speed/rush/etc by about as much time. ===== Is anyone else extremely disappointed in season 3's 2v2 map pool? It features all of ONE map which doesn't have a shared base+ramp.
I feel like they are promoting 1-base all-ins... very disappointing to say the least. I was really looking forward to some teams this season, but looks like it's back to the 1v1 scene until next season. what are you talking about? shared base/ramp in 2v2 discourages 1 base allins by making the defender's advantage greater.
I actually think the new maps are alright, i think blizzard have gone a little rock mental and on some of the 3v3 and 4v4 maps it's almost impossible to take a 3rd base. With the shared base maps yes you could say it promotes 1 base all-ins but on a couple of the maps there are inbase expos and easy to defend naturals.
I have to agree with Keilah thats the defenders are better off on a shared base, however the attackers will usually have an advantage because they have been focused on attacking and will typically have a large combined army. But that has always been the case in team games so nothing new there.
If you don't like the shared base maps just veto them, or you could play them for a while and see that not everyone on the ladder does a 1 base all-in
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Well I decided to switch to my main race (Zerg) after I got demoted back to Diamond -.-', And just wasn't having fun as Terran anymore. I've noticed there are a TON more proxys when up against a Zerg. So I open 11 Overpool for safety and to punish a player for not walling early and to spine rush a Zerg with my scouting Drone. Sure its cheesy but 6 Lings 1 Crawler while I'm droning useally puts me even or ahead of the Zerg. Plus it can outright win the game. I really like to go Burrow Infestors and use IT to snipe expos while my partner seiges other expos and draws their forces. I useally stay on low Drone counts and tech to Ultras/BLs, Other games when my partner has enough defense I will get an upwards of 90 Drones and just remax Over and over. My army may not do much damage but I can easily remax the entire thing with ease while dropping Lings in minerals lines and Etc. I have a friend thats started 2v2ing with me hes Protoss. What are some good 2v2 Strats with ZP vs Anything. I was thinking something like Ling/Bling mostly Bling to take out Bio while he 2 Robo Chronos Immortals while I feed him Gas+Mins. As long as he is good at target firing the Roaches/Stalks/Maruaders it seems viable to be. But thats just theory craft will test as soon as I can.
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I was playing some 2v2s for fun and come across a pretty good build.
I 15 hatch in my main, 15 gas 15 pool, make a nice simcity with the pool and the hatch, and then do a typical roach speedling all in with 19 drones. Hits at about 6:45 with 8-9 roaches and you have 2 hatches rallying lings constantly. It's a pretty standard zvz 1v1 build, except with a macro hatch instead of an expo. Couple it with any similar timed attack from an ally (such as blinkstalker) and it hits pretty hard. Roach/ling is a lot stronger than pure roach or pure ling.
It seems to hit just before standard siege mode timing so you can punch down the wall and get lings onto his tanks. It's easy to add evo + spore if you suspect DTs or banshees.
While you rally zerglings you can spend your gas on +1 melee attack in case the game goes longer.
I'm comfortable holding off 10pools and other single cheeses with drone micro, the roaches come out in time for stuff like 3 rax or 2 gate. the only match-up where I'm not comfortable with the in-base 15hatch is against two zergs. On maps with a protected expo you can just do a regular hatch first.
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On August 08 2011 13:43 Keilah wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2011 13:49 michaelhasanalias wrote:On July 19 2011 16:58 Xylarthen wrote: On July 19 16:43FreedonNadd wrote
On July 19 2011 14:00 CrumpetGuvnor wrote:
Hide nested quote -
On July 19 2011 11:17 Fuzzwah wrote:
Quick tip to any teams with a P player; have your scout probe warp in an assimilator for your team mate. For T, this saves them losing some mining time while their SVC builds and for Z it saves them a drone.
Can you mine from an allies geyser?
Yes you can. Not if they already laid down an extractor/assimilator/refinery. But yeah, like any other open geyser you can claim it. In 2v2 you can also give each other resources after 4-5 minutes I believe, so if you need alot of gas for High Templar, or Cloaked Banshees, of Mutalisks, your partner can send you a bunch to help you pump out more units of a certain type than you might be able to otherwise. This is great for early Muta harass for example where they might be scared off early when they cannot fight a handful of Marines or a Cannon, but if you were gifted 500 gas I'm sure you can find 5 more Mutas very powerful at 8 minutes when it is common to only see 4-8. This means your partner might be able to focus very strongly on Marines or Zealots to defend on the ground when you have air-control and with minerals you might be able to donate to them. In the beta phases of the game there was a Protoss and Terran 2v2 strategy started that involved letting the Terran grab all 3 bases (Their main and the two expansions) and ramp up their Mules with 6-gas and walling off until transferring everything over to a Protoss player who had made cannons and Stargates until they had a VERY fast 200/200 Void Ray/Carrier army which is usually deadly let alone around 15 Minutes. What he means is that you can make a gas structure and with share control, your ally can mine from YOUR geyser. This is useful in certain timings, such as this example: Around 8-9 supply I send a drone to make a geyser in my Terran ally's base. Because he can mine sooner and without losing the minerals from building (ala sub-5min mineral sharing) he can get hellions out 20-25 seconds faster. It slows my speed/rush/etc by about as much time. ===== Is anyone else extremely disappointed in season 3's 2v2 map pool? It features all of ONE map which doesn't have a shared base+ramp.
I feel like they are promoting 1-base all-ins... very disappointing to say the least. I was really looking forward to some teams this season, but looks like it's back to the 1v1 scene until next season. what are you talking about? shared base/ramp in 2v2 discourages 1 base allins by making the defender's advantage greater.
I would loved to see easily taken 3rds for both players, or atleast 3 easily defensible expansions per team... Most maps you get 1-2 for the whole team, kinda blows when you're Zerg v tp and
You absolutely want to be up on bases.
It seems like they settled for one stupid easy to defend expo, one normal expo, then very few reasonable 3rds, and never for both players.
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EPT
