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On July 19 2011 07:31 ensign_lee wrote:
While I understand the rationale behind this (and other recent "do not do this" rules), are y'all not concerned that you're providing extreme disincentives to post *at all*?
It's not as though we're all forced to provide advice, or to post on teamliquid, or to visit teamliquid. And all these events are related. If I posted here at TL less, I would probably visit less, which I think would ultimately hurt the site with less traffic. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't TL want as much traffic here on the site as possible? That's how you earn revenue with ads, etc. right?
I mean, I'll obviously follow this rule, but admins / mods / owners - really *think* about the repercussions of your actions. Most forums would kill to have lots of chatter (posts, traffic), and you're actively discouraging it. Be careful.
The incentive to post, and the incentive to "jump through hoops" to reach the required standards, is through the appeal of being part of the best SC2 community there is.
After just a glance at the battlenet forums it's easy to see that the place is a cess pit, and it's a craphole simply because there are no requirements or restrictions to post. TL is the best BECAUSE it sets the minimum quality bar extremely high, not in spite of it.
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After just a glance at the battlenet forums it's easy to see that the place is a cess pit, and it's a craphole simply because there are no requirements or restrictions to post. TL is the best BECAUSE it sets the minimum quality bar extremely high, not in spite of it.
This.
The whole reason that I made my way over here from BNET forums was due to the fact that their are maybe a couple dozen people over there that know what they are talking about, and the rest are are just QQing crybabies that clog up the forum with useless complaining threads, or just stupid ideas that anyone with experience can see will fail miserably.
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Canada13426 Posts
One thing Zatic - Exception to [D] and responding with questions to [G] threads I would assume? Though at that point you should just omit im at work so I guess the logic stands to the bans/warnings.
Though I agree that posting in strat forums for [H] threads is useless when you cant post or view replays.
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Zurich15366 Posts
On July 19 2011 07:31 ensign_lee wrote:
While I understand the rationale behind this (and other recent "do not do this" rules), are y'all not concerned that you're providing extreme disincentives to post *at all*?
It's not as though we're all forced to provide advice, or to post on teamliquid, or to visit teamliquid. And all these events are related. If I posted here at TL less, I would probably visit less, which I think would ultimately hurt the site with less traffic. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't TL want as much traffic here on the site as possible? That's how you earn revenue with ads, etc. right?
I mean, I'll obviously follow this rule, but admins / mods / owners - really *think* about the repercussions of your actions. Most forums would kill to have lots of chatter (posts, traffic), and you're actively discouraging it. Be careful.
I get what you are saying, but I don't think this is a problem at all. First of all I don't think there is going to be a problem with too few people posting for a long while. And I actually think the traffic argument goes the opposite way. Less bad posts means a better Strategy forum which is a resource people look for. If they (only) find it on TL that means more traffic for TL.
On July 19 2011 08:12 ZeromuS wrote:
One thing Zatic - Exception to [D] and responding with questions to [G] threads I would assume? Though at that point you should just omit im at work so I guess the logic stands to the bans/warnings.
Though I agree that posting in strat forums for [H] threads is useless when you cant post or view replays.
This was mostly concerning [H] thread yes, but is not limited to them. As others have pointed out it is just as bad when a high level player puts in the effort to create a guide and post several replays and some donkey comes into the thread and goes "Sounds nice but have you tried this against early marauders?". This is what I mean by being rude and disrespectful.
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Zatic, sorry if this has been asked before, what about this (exaggerated) situation:
Person A: I got 6 pooled, watch my replay and help me.
Person B: I'm just in bronze league, but I watched your replay and I suggest that you relocate your nexus. Make a new base, you'll be ahead.
Person C: I'm top 10 GM and person B is wrong. Scout and wall off <--------------- did not watch replay.
Would there be exceptions for that or would C get banned?
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Zurich15366 Posts
We never execute rules just for rules sake. This is still a case by case basis, so I would have to look at the actual thread (and replay).
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I'm on my way home from work but i'd like to say that i agree that watching replays is important. In fact i like the general advice that zatic post earlier.
Wacky idea but maybe for every [H] thread the forum could auto post a whole bunch of generic advice like 'macro better' 'make SCVs non stop' 'don't get supply cap'. Might even stop those people who wanted to post general advice because whatever they want and have to say has been said already.
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On July 19 2011 07:54 Hairy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2011 07:31 ensign_lee wrote:
While I understand the rationale behind this (and other recent "do not do this" rules), are y'all not concerned that you're providing extreme disincentives to post *at all*?
It's not as though we're all forced to provide advice, or to post on teamliquid, or to visit teamliquid. And all these events are related. If I posted here at TL less, I would probably visit less, which I think would ultimately hurt the site with less traffic. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't TL want as much traffic here on the site as possible? That's how you earn revenue with ads, etc. right?
I mean, I'll obviously follow this rule, but admins / mods / owners - really *think* about the repercussions of your actions. Most forums would kill to have lots of chatter (posts, traffic), and you're actively discouraging it. Be careful. The incentive to post, and the incentive to "jump through hoops" to reach the required standards, is through the appeal of being part of the best SC2 community there is. After just a glance at the battlenet forums it's easy to see that the place is a cess pit, and it's a craphole simply because there are no requirements or restrictions to post. TL is the best BECAUSE it sets the minimum quality bar extremely high, not in spite of it.
I couldn't agree more. The incentive to get more readers and traffic by way of quality over quantity (hence the rules) will keep me coming to read more and at the same time will force me to really think about my posts before i post (something i'm working on) which in turn helps me become a better player by thinking more. Perhaps traffic and revevue will be temporarily greater if it allowed all sorts of garbage but then the quality would suffer. Not everyone builds a site like this only to make money, they actually want to contribute to creating a very solid Starcraft2 community. IMO TL is definitely helping out SC2 and E-Sports make their place by doing it this way.
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I have learnt NOT to post from work again early this morning, after starting a topic about my play. I should have gone deeper into the forums, and maybe read about more about rules etc. I have a lot of respect for TL, so I give me sincere apologies. Won't happen again! 
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Zurich15366 Posts
Looks like it's time to bump this.
This forum has gotten really bad again recently. Please everyone, let's put more effort into making this a place where more people actually receive help and less people spam threads full of largely useless posts.
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Isnt it illegal on this forum to simply bump your own post?
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On March 02 2012 01:32 pure_protoss wrote:
Isnt it illegal on this forum to simply bump your own post?
Yeah I think Zatic is going to ban himself more than likely
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On March 02 2012 01:32 pure_protoss wrote:
Isnt it illegal on this forum to simply bump your own post?
I'd guess it's possible to make exceptions if you actually own a brain
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Hey, I'm at work, but right now, I really think this thread serves no purpose whatsoever.
Note, to explain before I get cruelly dismantled: Firstly, I see noone that actually posts "the such" heeding it, and secondly all I see is a thread that doesn't belong in the strategy section in the strategy section. Being bumped, even, the spam.
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On March 02 2012 01:59 grtgrt1 wrote:
Hey, I'm at work, but right now, I really think this thread serves no purpose whatsoever.
Note, to explain before I get cruelly dismantled: Firstly, I see noone that actually posts "the such" heeding it, and secondly all I see is a thread that doesn't belong in the strategy section in the strategy section. Being bumped, even, the spam.
I think it does, every time I see those posts, I just want to link this thread to them. I'ts really annoying when people don't try to give proper advice.
In case of sarcasm: l2sarcsasm.
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On March 02 2012 01:59 grtgrt1 wrote:
Hey, I'm at work, but right now, I really think this thread serves no purpose whatsoever.
Note, to explain before I get cruelly dismantled: Firstly, I see noone that actually posts "the such" heeding it, and secondly all I see is a thread that doesn't belong in the strategy section in the strategy section. Being bumped, even, the spam.
Personally, I just view it as a banner across the top reminding everyone of the rules. And in each thread, you will see a decent amount of people who are just tossing out random advice without looking at the situation (Macro better, well, zealots are good against lings, make more roaches)
Without bothering to look at the context in the replay.
I feel like it's always good to have a refresher every now and then to remind everyone of the general rules of the forum, in order to keep it from spiraling down to a place no one wants to go to
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Canada13426 Posts
On March 02 2012 02:17 reneg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 01:59 grtgrt1 wrote:
Hey, I'm at work, but right now, I really think this thread serves no purpose whatsoever.
Note, to explain before I get cruelly dismantled: Firstly, I see noone that actually posts "the such" heeding it, and secondly all I see is a thread that doesn't belong in the strategy section in the strategy section. Being bumped, even, the spam. Personally, I just view it as a banner across the top reminding everyone of the rules. And in each thread, you will see a decent amount of people who are just tossing out random advice without looking at the situation (Macro better, well, zealots are good against lings, make more roaches) Without bothering to look at the context in the replay. I feel like it's always good to have a refresher every now and then to remind everyone of the general rules of the forum, in order to keep it from spiraling down to a place no one wants to go to
Agreed. I think its important to keep TL what it is.
Question for anyone who is newer to TL:
How do you know about TL? Why TL why not reddit/sc? Why not some other community forum? Why are you posting strat questions here?
And that will answer exactly why the rules at TL are so important. I came here to seek refuge from StarCraftArena (I wonder how many people remember that website?) and I have never looked back since, hell just look at my post count I basically live on TL.
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While we are on the subject of how bad the strategy forum has been recently....
Is anyone else getting tired of seeing the "Help me get out of bronze" threads? This is one example. There have been several threads in the past addressing the "get out of bronze" question and subsequent threads seem redundant.
Also, going back to the strategy forum purge thread by Saracen:
If I watch your replay and there are obvious flaws (macro, micro, etc.) in your game that contribute to your loss, you will be BANNED (Hint: read the Analyzing Replays thread and the How to Improve thread). Why? Because if you care enough about your gameplay to clutter up the Strategy Forum with another [H] thread, then you care enough to spend time by yourself to actually improve.
That pretty much covers most of the Bronze/Silver/Gold "get out of bronze" style threads.
##votes to ban future "help me get out of bronze" threads.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
I'm glad this thread was bumped. Just in the past day two dudes came through and made [H] threads that had such egregious responses they really stood out to me. The offending replies were warned but it's just annoying when this happens.
One was an [H][L] thread about TvZ, in which the guy asked about fighting ling/bane/muta. He vaguely described getting "swarmed" and being unable to drop. The first response says he's on the phone and to use "bio tank" and "fight off creep". The secon response says "play somre more sc2"... It isn't until a few responses down that someone views the replay and realizes the guy is floating a thousand gas 10 minutes in and has 20 workers to zerg's 60. After a couple responses like this the OP was like "ok thanks for the help I will work on my worker macro" but imagine how badly he could have been misled by all these guys who didn't view the replay.
The other was a TvP [H] Thread about microing in the late game. The guy said he was ahead, up on macro, but lost a big fight. Viewing the replay, I realized it was because he overmade vikings, and he engaged in a choke against a gateway-colossus army. The first response: "on phone, can't watch replay... put ghosts in seperate control group"... and the second response was a link to a YouTube video and the advice to have 12 ghosts in the army, when the clear problem was like overproduction of vikings and bad choke engagement. There were no templars or archons.
The issue is that the advice people give when they don't watch the replay is so unimaginably bad it often would actually make the OP worse if he implemented, or if it is good advice, it's often completely irrelevant to the OP, and doesn't solve the underlying problems. When people make [H] Threads, posting a replay is required, so when you respond, you should view that replay. All this "not watching the replay" is the equivalent of like trying to help a guy with his hurdling form, but instead of watching him hurdle, you just sort of spew out some advice at him. ._.
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Seriously guys it takes 2 minutes to watch a vid on x8 to get a general idea of what is wrong, hell even if you just notice his worker count at the 10 minute mark you can just tell them they are missing too many workers and to focus on that first and maybe give them a rough building count to support their income with the general mix they were already going for poorly.
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EPT
