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On June 17 2011 11:00 Glockateer wrote: Juicebox, you mentioned you take good care of your hands, what kind of exercises do you do? I do a few now but I wondered what other ones you might do for finger/wrist health. I've had a little trouble with my wrists before.
I do they Day[9] wrist stretches, and I massage my wrists and forearms like every hour.
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Looks like a great guide!  I used to solve Rubik's Cubes too..I was sub-20 avg. before I quit with a fastest solve (PLL skip) of ~13 seconds.
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On June 18 2011 08:37 Leoneri wrote:Looks like a great guide!  I used to solve Rubik's Cubes too..I was sub-20 avg. before I quit with a fastest solve (PLL skip) of ~13 seconds.
I'm soooo bad at finding the next step...that was too hard for me lol
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Haha yeah...I'm really bad now though, I can't even solve 100% of the time. I forgot pretty much every OLL and PLL.
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xdJuiceBox, I have the name of the concept you've been trying to get at in response to all the haters in this thread. Not too surprising they dont understand because I've only seen it discussed in one place before.
Execution speed is a factor that really dierentiates pros from amateurs and others from those a level or few lower, yet it is scarcely talked about at all
This is from Ver's classic thread "How To Improve" http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/stet_tcl/How_to_Improve_by_Ver.pdf
Execution Speed
+ Show Spoiler +Execution Speed The most important area of multitasking is that of execution speed. Execution speed is a factor that really dierentiates pros from amateurs and others from those a level or few lower, yet it is scarcely talked about at all. The easiest way to understand is with a demonstration. Take for example mid to lategame TvZ, right after swarm is out and the Zerg is busy securing their 4th gas. During this period one approach is to pressure the Zerg enough so that the Zerg makes a mistake or leaves an opening that can be exploited. Should the Terran not do any damage before the Zerg can start pumping out 4 gas ultra/ling, the Terran ends up at a mild to severe disadvantage. Ergo the Terran will naturally march around between various points of entry throwing irradiates, killing isolated units and sunkens, sieging up, and dropping the 3rd or the main. The primary factor in deciding victory in this scenario is which side is faster. If you want proof, go through the best pro TvZ'ers and look at their games in this section of the game. In virtually every single example you will be unable to point to more than a few second window (at most) where their army is idle. Some infantry may be providing scourge cover for Vessels to irradiate a deler or lurkers, other infantry might be denying an expansion or forcing a dark swarm, but something is always happening. What is more, the Terran army never sits still even if it is not attacking. It provides pressure by moving constantly, forcing the Zerg to be uncertain to the timing and intentions of his opponent. If the Zerg is not prepared for the speed of the Terran's movements, some aspect of their defense will be open and they will either die or get crippled. So not only is it important to be able to initiate the movements at a non-stop rate, but you also must be able to react to high-speed movements as well. If not, that very same Terran player might nd themselves victim to a terrifying plague or ank that just came a second earlier than they expected. When you look at games of weaker players in the above scenario, you'll see how their armies stop moving quite often, they don't make enough threats, they don't put on enough pressure; in fact, they just seem to sit around often. Without the direct pro comparison it doesn't seem that abnormal, but the dierence between an army sitting in the middle and an army ghting on your doorstep is worlds apart to the opponent. Should you pit that slower amateur against a pro, the pro could simply win, irregardless of every other skill, simply by striking faster and more often than his opponent is prepared to handle. Execution speed is often the factor in many losses attributed to other causes. Think back to some of the games that you might have lost where the deciding factor was that swarm blocking a winning attack at the last moment, that Terran army that attacks too quickly and emps your arbiter a second before you are ready to strike, or the Protoss army that attacks out of the black and crushes your hydralisks because you didn't have the time to organize them for battle. Once you get to a (not particularly high) level where everyone has great macro, everybody's micro is solid, and awareness is nice, execution speed is the main mechanical skill that dierentiates great from good. Improving this all-important attribute is going to be gradual, and oftentimes enough from the results 18of improving the rest of your skills. Practicing with a concentrated eort to move your armies faster and faster will obviously help propel this along, but that alone will not do it. In order to increase the speed and eectiveness of your attacks, you will also need to have the knowledge of what kind of movement, where to move, and when to move all down subconsciously. This will be acquired both from studying progames and from your own experience. Lastly, one nal approach that may help is playing from the other point of view. A Terran player working on ZvT or vice versa is a particularly great case because of how important execution speed and reaction is in both sides of that matchup. By doing this, you will get to experience directly just how important execution speed is. You will lose many times over to those mm that strike right before your defense is entirely setup, or the lurker/ling that rams into your natural under swarm while you are still assembling your army. An even greater way to experience this factor and gain insight on how to improve your own play, short of ndng a practice partner of much higher skill, is to play against a team melee team. As one person is always controlling the army, it will be abundantly clear how much benet they reap simply from always being able to move their forces faster than you have experienced. As we can see every mechanical aspect requires both knowing what to do and actually doing it. One is a knowledge component gained from both experience and careful studying of pros, the other is a mechan- ical/subconscious component gained purely from experience. Of all the mechanical skills, multitasking is the most dependant on experience and repitition. The shortcuts come from knowing what to do; the rest depends on doing the same things over and over and slowly optimizing them. Multitasking requires: 1. Understanding exactly what you are doing and why (study/experience) 2. Becoming so familiar with every action that the process becomes subconscious (practice) 3. Optimizing your actions to focus on the most important while ignoring the trivial (experience) 4. Becoming extremely aware of the minimap (practice/experience) 5. Force yourself to become faster by playing against opponents who punish you severely if you don't (practice) 6. Improving your execution speed (study, experience, practice
Hopefully the title is enough to make it click in their heads but if not heres a highlight from the post.
Once you get to a (not particularly high) level where everyone has great macro, everybody's micro is solid, and awareness is nice, execution speed is the main mechanical skill that dierentiates great from good. HuH? Wait what!? not macro, micro or awareness related....
PS- guide is great, been looking to improve in this area for too long now. Thanks for the unique content.
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On June 18 2011 14:49 Intricate1 wrote:xdJuiceBox, I have the name of the concept you've been trying to get at in response to all the haters in this thread. Not too surprising they dont understand because I've only seen it discussed in one place before. Show nested quote +Execution speed is a factor that really dierentiates pros from amateurs and others from those a level or few lower, yet it is scarcely talked about at all This is from Ver's classic thread "How To Improve" http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/stet_tcl/How_to_Improve_by_Ver.pdfExecution Speed+ Show Spoiler +Execution Speed The most important area of multitasking is that of execution speed. Execution speed is a factor that really dierentiates pros from amateurs and others from those a level or few lower, yet it is scarcely talked about at all. The easiest way to understand is with a demonstration. Take for example mid to lategame TvZ, right after swarm is out and the Zerg is busy securing their 4th gas. During this period one approach is to pressure the Zerg enough so that the Zerg makes a mistake or leaves an opening that can be exploited. Should the Terran not do any damage before the Zerg can start pumping out 4 gas ultra/ling, the Terran ends up at a mild to severe disadvantage. Ergo the Terran will naturally march around between various points of entry throwing irradiates, killing isolated units and sunkens, sieging up, and dropping the 3rd or the main. The primary factor in deciding victory in this scenario is which side is faster. If you want proof, go through the best pro TvZ'ers and look at their games in this section of the game. In virtually every single example you will be unable to point to more than a few second window (at most) where their army is idle. Some infantry may be providing scourge cover for Vessels to irradiate a deler or lurkers, other infantry might be denying an expansion or forcing a dark swarm, but something is always happening. What is more, the Terran army never sits still even if it is not attacking. It provides pressure by moving constantly, forcing the Zerg to be uncertain to the timing and intentions of his opponent. If the Zerg is not prepared for the speed of the Terran's movements, some aspect of their defense will be open and they will either die or get crippled. So not only is it important to be able to initiate the movements at a non-stop rate, but you also must be able to react to high-speed movements as well. If not, that very same Terran player might nd themselves victim to a terrifying plague or ank that just came a second earlier than they expected. When you look at games of weaker players in the above scenario, you'll see how their armies stop moving quite often, they don't make enough threats, they don't put on enough pressure; in fact, they just seem to sit around often. Without the direct pro comparison it doesn't seem that abnormal, but the dierence between an army sitting in the middle and an army ghting on your doorstep is worlds apart to the opponent. Should you pit that slower amateur against a pro, the pro could simply win, irregardless of every other skill, simply by striking faster and more often than his opponent is prepared to handle. Execution speed is often the factor in many losses attributed to other causes. Think back to some of the games that you might have lost where the deciding factor was that swarm blocking a winning attack at the last moment, that Terran army that attacks too quickly and emps your arbiter a second before you are ready to strike, or the Protoss army that attacks out of the black and crushes your hydralisks because you didn't have the time to organize them for battle. Once you get to a (not particularly high) level where everyone has great macro, everybody's micro is solid, and awareness is nice, execution speed is the main mechanical skill that dierentiates great from good. Improving this all-important attribute is going to be gradual, and oftentimes enough from the results 18of improving the rest of your skills. Practicing with a concentrated eort to move your armies faster and faster will obviously help propel this along, but that alone will not do it. In order to increase the speed and eectiveness of your attacks, you will also need to have the knowledge of what kind of movement, where to move, and when to move all down subconsciously. This will be acquired both from studying progames and from your own experience. Lastly, one nal approach that may help is playing from the other point of view. A Terran player working on ZvT or vice versa is a particularly great case because of how important execution speed and reaction is in both sides of that matchup. By doing this, you will get to experience directly just how important execution speed is. You will lose many times over to those mm that strike right before your defense is entirely setup, or the lurker/ling that rams into your natural under swarm while you are still assembling your army. An even greater way to experience this factor and gain insight on how to improve your own play, short of ndng a practice partner of much higher skill, is to play against a team melee team. As one person is always controlling the army, it will be abundantly clear how much benet they reap simply from always being able to move their forces faster than you have experienced. As we can see every mechanical aspect requires both knowing what to do and actually doing it. One is a knowledge component gained from both experience and careful studying of pros, the other is a mechan- ical/subconscious component gained purely from experience. Of all the mechanical skills, multitasking is the most dependant on experience and repitition. The shortcuts come from knowing what to do; the rest depends on doing the same things over and over and slowly optimizing them. Multitasking requires: 1. Understanding exactly what you are doing and why (study/experience) 2. Becoming so familiar with every action that the process becomes subconscious (practice) 3. Optimizing your actions to focus on the most important while ignoring the trivial (experience) 4. Becoming extremely aware of the minimap (practice/experience) 5. Force yourself to become faster by playing against opponents who punish you severely if you don't (practice) 6. Improving your execution speed (study, experience, practice Hopefully the title is enough to make it click in their heads but if not heres a highlight from the post. Show nested quote +Once you get to a (not particularly high) level where everyone has great macro, everybody's micro is solid, and awareness is nice, execution speed is the main mechanical skill that dierentiates great from good. HuH? Wait what!? not macro, micro or awareness related....PS- guide is great, been looking to improve in this area for too long now. Thanks for the unique content.
OMG thanks!! That's EXACTLY what I was trying to say!!!
"Execution speed" is such a perfect term!
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how many people can say that they are "really really good" so that apm matters?
edit: my belief's on this matter is that strategy>apm but when you add strategy = strategy into the equation, strategy < apm + strategy
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On June 19 2011 02:09 Br3ezy wrote: how many people can say that they are "really really good" so that apm matters?
edit: my belief's on this matter is that strategy>apm but when you add strategy = strategy into the equation, strategy < apm + strategy
Lets forget for a second that apm is more than finger speed and that having faster finger helps you macro and micro even if your APM stays the same, and that this thread is primarily about increasing your finger speed without regard to APM.
APM is a resource to be spent, just like minerals, gas, supply, and larva. All the arguments that try to state that apm doesn't matter or only matters if your macro is perfect can be made about the collection of any other resource. If you collect APM without spending it (by spamming), then you're no better off than if you collect minerals without spending them. The more skilled player is the one who can both collect more resources (finger speed / muscle memory) and spend them at the rate they collect them (quick decision making). The only difference between APM and minerals as a resource is you can't bank APM.
Now what brings this back to the topic is that these finger exercises can be used to do more than just improve your ability to collect APM (spam) they can improve your ability to spend APM by training your muscle memory to execute complex -useful- actions automatically after doing other actions.
Training yourself to quickly alternate between selecting drones and minerals is not a very complex action, and will only lead to the collection of unused APM. Training yourself to tap your production structures automatically every time you issue an attack move will produce useful APM that will help you macro in the middle of battle.
EDIT: Two more examples of things that are improved simply by being faster without adding any quicker decision making: spreading creep and using infestors.
Spreading creep is entirely automateable, but many players don't do it as well as they could for the simple reason that they don't have any APM to spend on it because they are too slow at doing everything that's more important.
Using infestors properly is so reliant on timing that being clumsy with your hotkeys is simply unacceptable. Finger speed and muscle memory are crucial for being able to coordinate your roaches and infestors and land fungals against a moving enemy. Particularly if you're trying to macro at the same time.
In short, it's not that being a little faster will give you a marginal advantage over your enemy. There are certain speed thresholds you have to reach that allow you to do things you were completely unable to do before.
We don't tell someone who's floating 1000 minerals to build fewer SCVs until their macro improves. We tell them to spend their money properly. But someone who isn't even building enough SCVs doesn't even have a chance to learn to spend that much money.
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On June 19 2011 02:09 Br3ezy wrote: how many people can say that they are "really really good" so that apm matters?
edit: my belief's on this matter is that strategy>apm but when you add strategy = strategy into the equation, strategy < apm + strategy
if you bothered to read the OP at all you would know this isn't about APM. He clearly states is several Times in big bold letters "WARNING - NOTE - READ THIS"
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Wow. I used to be able to do almost 200 apm back when I played but I sort of ran into a wall there. I think my physical hand speed put a limit which I couldn't breach, I'm really fucking terrible with my pinky, ring finger and thumb. Wish I would have thought of something like this back then. Although it would probably have been even more useful in Brood War, I felt more limited by my speed there.
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On June 12 2011 16:22 XDJuicebox wrote:NOTE: This isn't about improving APM. This is just about making your fingers faster.  To improve APM requires a synergy of mind and body...one that I am still developing so I cannot comment on it that much. ANOTHER NOTE: APM isn't really that important. It's just nice to have once you're really, really good. no read my post
On June 19 2011 02:09 Br3ezy wrote: how many people can say that they are "really really good" so that apm matters?
edit: my belief's on this matter is that strategy>apm but when you add strategy = strategy into the equation, strategy < apm + strategy
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I feel that my APM is really whats holding me back. I'm a decent typist, maybe 70 WPM give or take, however I cant really get my APM past 50-60 in any given game. I know what I have to be doing and I know when it has to be done however the physically speed of my hands is holding me back so my multitasking really suffers.
What OP posted is something I'll be trying out. I'm mid-high diamond right now (depending how much I get to play each week) however I think I could easily be mid to high masters if I could garner another 30 or so APM
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On June 19 2011 05:39 Br3ezy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 16:22 XDJuicebox wrote:NOTE: This isn't about improving APM. This is just about making your fingers faster.  To improve APM requires a synergy of mind and body...one that I am still developing so I cannot comment on it that much. ANOTHER NOTE: APM isn't really that important. It's just nice to have once you're really, really good. no read my post Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 02:09 Br3ezy wrote: how many people can say that they are "really really good" so that apm matters?
edit: my belief's on this matter is that strategy>apm but when you add strategy = strategy into the equation, strategy < apm + strategy
Doesn't matter if you're a strategical genius if you can only utilize 40 APM and can barely switch fast enough to macro/micro/multitask.
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On June 19 2011 06:50 iChau wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 05:39 Br3ezy wrote:On June 12 2011 16:22 XDJuicebox wrote:NOTE: This isn't about improving APM. This is just about making your fingers faster.  To improve APM requires a synergy of mind and body...one that I am still developing so I cannot comment on it that much. ANOTHER NOTE: APM isn't really that important. It's just nice to have once you're really, really good. no read my post On June 19 2011 02:09 Br3ezy wrote: how many people can say that they are "really really good" so that apm matters?
edit: my belief's on this matter is that strategy>apm but when you add strategy = strategy into the equation, strategy < apm + strategy Doesn't matter if you're a strategical genius if you can only utilize 40 APM and can barely switch fast enough to macro/micro/multitask. if only there was a way to select all your units at once or to select multiple buildlings so that you could macro more easily...if only
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With hotkeys 1,2,3 I can get it up to 650 apm easily. 
Used to play piano back in the day.
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On June 19 2011 04:38 philipov wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 02:09 Br3ezy wrote: how many people can say that they are "really really good" so that apm matters?
edit: my belief's on this matter is that strategy>apm but when you add strategy = strategy into the equation, strategy < apm + strategy Lets forget for a second that apm is more than finger speed and that having faster finger helps you macro and micro even if your APM stays the same, and that this thread is primarily about increasing your finger speed without regard to APM. APM is a resource to be spent, just like minerals, gas, supply, and larva. All the arguments that try to state that apm doesn't matter or only matters if your macro is perfect can be made about the collection of any other resource. If you collect APM without spending it (by spamming), then you're no better off than if you collect minerals without spending them. The more skilled player is the one who can both collect more resources (finger speed / muscle memory) and spend them at the rate they collect them (quick decision making). The only difference between APM and minerals as a resource is you can't bank APM. Now what brings this back to the topic is that these finger exercises can be used to do more than just improve your ability to collect APM (spam) they can improve your ability to spend APM by training your muscle memory to execute complex -useful- actions automatically after doing other actions. Training yourself to quickly alternate between selecting drones and minerals is not a very complex action, and will only lead to the collection of unused APM. Training yourself to tap your production structures automatically every time you issue an attack move will produce useful APM that will help you macro in the middle of battle. EDIT: Two more examples of things that are improved simply by being faster without adding any quicker decision making: spreading creep and using infestors. Spreading creep is entirely automateable, but many players don't do it as well as they could for the simple reason that they don't have any APM to spend on it because they are too slow at doing everything that's more important. Using infestors properly is so reliant on timing that being clumsy with your hotkeys is simply unacceptable. Finger speed and muscle memory are crucial for being able to coordinate your roaches and infestors and land fungals against a moving enemy. Particularly if you're trying to macro at the same time. In short, it's not that being a little faster will give you a marginal advantage over your enemy. There are certain speed thresholds you have to reach that allow you to do things you were completely unable to do before. We don't tell someone who's floating 1000 minerals to build fewer SCVs until their macro improves. We tell them to spend their money properly. But someone who isn't even building enough SCVs doesn't even have a chance to learn to spend that much money.
You can't spend APM if your fingers don't listen to you...that's what the point of this thread is. To improve your coordination with your fingers. And some people can do that by simply playing...I can too. But what if you don't always have the access to your computer?
That's when you can help the effort by doing what I suggested.
And you don't even have to, it's a free world...
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On June 19 2011 06:02 Megakenny wrote: I feel that my APM is really whats holding me back. I'm a decent typist, maybe 70 WPM give or take, however I cant really get my APM past 50-60 in any given game. I know what I have to be doing and I know when it has to be done however the physically speed of my hands is holding me back so my multitasking really suffers.
What OP posted is something I'll be trying out. I'm mid-high diamond right now (depending how much I get to play each week) however I think I could easily be mid to high masters if I could garner another 30 or so APM
No. Strategy and game sense is more important than APM in most cases, and 60 average effective APM (not counting times where you need higher, like in battles) is enough to get into GM if none of it is spam.
APM isn't something that you consciously try to increase. As you play more it should increase naturally until you are able to have near-perfect macro / micro.
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This is a great post 8D I shamefully got all my hand speed from guitar hero (which honestly, is probably the most enjoyable way to directly improve your speed without learning an actual instrument) so my left hand is really strong at picking up different combinations and doing them quickly.
In game I only spam up to about 200, just enough to warm up my hands, and usually end with an avg of 100-110, I play GH on Expert. Of course this is kind of limited to improving your keyboard hand, unless you're ambidextrous I guess, but I feel like speed on your mouse hand is much less important anyway (it may be because I also come from an FPS background, and my mouse hand is already very strong and I just don't realize it).
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You can also play a "real game" on fastest map very good macro practice there
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I was wondering if you have any baller ways to increase the speed of mouse clicking (or whatever you want to call it).
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