EPT[G]HuK! PvT 20food 1gate FE - Page 3
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ODKStevez
Ireland1225 Posts
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ZoneofEnders
Canada71 Posts
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KillerSOS
United States4207 Posts
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
I don't like the fact the build stops mining gas though as it seems completely inefficient to me. Why would you want to mine with more then 16 probes on minerals and 0 on gas when you have an empty assimilator?? Putting those probes > 16 on gas instead hardly slows you down as those probes are a bit inefficient anyway and you will be getting gas which can always be put to good use. For example you could be making a sentry just before the nexus... This build doesn't get close to 26 pop anyway at first so there seems no reason not to. I also don't get the long probe cut, what good is it to cut probes only to get nexus and gateways slightly faster? Not cutting probes hardly slows down those gates as those probes partly pay themselves back before that and having a slightly slower nexus with more probes already is just better then a faster nexus. I rather play a more standard 1 gate FE style with continued probing and 1 or 2 sentries then this build as it is just more efficient imo. You can always cut the zealot and get a quick nexus (before third pylon) without cutting gas and probes as much. For example what I like to do is just quee up the zealot and then if i feel FEing is safe I just cancel the zealot at the last moment. This build already commits itself so fast that i'd really feel unsafe doing it before i have scouted them which can happen if you happen to scout them last. If i'm going to do a greedy build partly blind then I might as well 16 nexus. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On May 17 2011 06:52 Markwerf wrote: I like the idea of this build for metalopolis and shattered temple as you are basically doing a very greedy FE build but you are only committing to it after you have scouted them (usually). That gives you options to switch it up or change the build at the last moment. I don't like the fact the build stops mining gas though as it seems completely inefficient to me. Why would you want to mine with more then 16 probes on minerals and 0 on gas when you have an empty assimilator?? Putting those probes > 16 on gas instead hardly slows you down as those probes are a bit inefficient anyway and you will be getting gas which can always be put to good use. For example you could be making a sentry just before the nexus... This build doesn't get close to 26 pop anyway at first so there seems no reason not to. Well, the reason you don't want a sentry for this is stalkers give you the ability to put pressure on a gasless expansion (or any marine number, really), while a lone sentry cannot kite marines and are slow to catch up to your 3 additional warp ins. The gas exchange is pretty simple. It's true that you get diminishing returns after 16 probes, but you really have nothing to spend that additional gas on. By putting probes back on gas, you squeeze out enough minerals to get the 3 stalker warpins without having excess gas, which is efficient after we have ruled out the want for sentries. I also don't get the long probe cut, what good is it to cut probes only to get nexus and gateways slightly faster? Not cutting probes hardly slows down those gates as those probes partly pay themselves back before that and having a slightly slower nexus with more probes already is just better then a faster nexus. the probe cut allows you to get the nexus faster and to allow you to get the 2 additional gateways to finish alongside warpgate research (it gets a bit funky with the warpgate nerf, but it is still close. You might be able to squeeze in a probe between the nexus and the additional gates, though). The mineral income you get from pulling the probes in gas should iron out the probe cut so you can afford the stalkers. I rather play a more standard 1 gate FE style with continued probing and 1 or 2 sentries then this build as it is just more efficient imo. You can always cut the zealot and get a quick nexus (before third pylon) without cutting gas and probes as much. For example what I like to do is just quee up the zealot and then if i feel FEing is safe I just cancel the zealot at the last moment. This build already commits itself so fast that i'd really feel unsafe doing it before i have scouted them which can happen if you happen to scout them last. If i'm going to do a greedy build partly blind then I might as well 16 nexus. Early on, your sentries are not going to be better than stalkers for holding your natural. Sure, if the ramp came into play sentries would be 10 times better but that's an entirely different story. The difference between this build and a 16 nexus is obviously the warpgate timing. With a 16 nexus you're at least a minute behind on WG, meanwhile with this build you get your WG at a similar timing to a 4gate which allows you to defend much better whilst still being able to put on pressure. 16nexus is certainly better in circumstances where you feel absolutely safe, while this is sort of a middle ground where you are at risk to reapers before the first stalker is out (if you don't scout reaper expand in time) and slightly better off against a 2rax marine-scv all in, as sentries will do absolutely nothing to save you in that case, where at least with stalkers you can kite and are better equipped to delay or deny a bunker in your natural. | ||
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Harrad
1003 Posts
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Melchior
United States112 Posts
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Lazy_89
United States87 Posts
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Cocoba
Canada352 Posts
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
The real strength of the build is its flexibility. If you dont scout them, leave your guys on gas. If you scout aggression, leave your guys on gas. If you scout passivity, pull from gas and be greedy. Honestly every macro-oriented protoss needs to know that pulling 3 guys off gas will net you the minerals you need for some faster infrastructure. edit: I should clarify that this build DOES indeed work on every single map. Since your decisions are based on what you scout, you will still have opportunities to be greedy in this way even on a map as small as close pos. slag pits. Its really just based on scouting and taking every inch of slack your opponent gives you. | ||
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Yamulo
United States2096 Posts
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Shooks
Australia256 Posts
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Perplex
United States1693 Posts
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
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Mnijykmirl
United States299 Posts
The real strength of the build is its flexibility. If you dont scout them, leave your guys on gas. If you scout aggression, leave your guys on gas. If you scout passivity, pull from gas and be greedy. Honestly every macro-oriented protoss needs to know that pulling 3 guys off gas will net you the minerals you need for some faster infrastructure. | ||
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
I disagree with those who say you can simply abandon the build depending on what you scout. The marine will chase your probe out of your base at about 3:05. At that point you already have to decide if you are going to make a zealot or not. If he's already marching towards your base, it's too late to suddenly say "oh crap, I need a sentry". It might be possible to chrono out your sentry at that point (I haven't tested it), but that would be one less chrono on your warp gate and that still puts you in trouble. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10383 Posts
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KingofGods
Canada1218 Posts
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ChrysaliS_
United States261 Posts
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sickoota
Canada918 Posts
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