This looks like a valid idea, however if Protoss turtles until they max with upgrades they can eventually block out your entire army with force fields. Sure by then you should have ultra's but if those get killed off the Protoss just has to put up more fields.

Amarkov

United States131 Posts

May 08 2011 07:37 GMT

#362

Protoss turtling until they max with upgrades and also having a bunch of sentries... doesn't really happen. You highly underestimate the amount of gas sentries cost, the protoss is going to need to take at least a third base for that. Besides, if the protoss just sits there behind forcefields, you can repeatedly fungal with infestors until they die; the protoss really is forced to attack into you with this composition.

ETisME

12816 Posts

May 08 2011 14:38 GMT

#363

I don't think it is very viable. there is a window where after the initial fungal growth and mind controlled the collosus, the infestors are not really doing much.
It is not very effective above around 6 infestors I think, much better if you include some units other than lings and banelings to deal the dps required.

It is also a bit too micro intensive (for me anyway). having 6 infestors with full energy is all that really is needed I think. maybe 8 is the max but you get the point.

pwadoc

271 Posts

May 08 2011 19:45 GMT

#364

I've tried this out a few times (high diamond), and it seems to just get shut down by an immortal/templar/archon composition, and with the archon buffs it's going to be even worse. Has anyone had any success against this composition?

Moonling

United States987 Posts

May 08 2011 20:01 GMT

#365

Yea Immorotal/templar/archon is the counter but toss isnt' going to be able to get that army until the very end game you go mass bling infestor he goes that comp u go brood lords just keep tech swithitching him. You can't just blindly go infestor ling/bling you do it if he is going gateway/colli. Obivoulsy if you stay on the same tech he is going to counter you

Enigmoid

United States48 Posts

May 08 2011 20:07 GMT

#366

I'll add a pro to this play style:

If the protoss army is spread out, it's vulnerable to ling surrounds, because of more surface area. If it's clumped, it's vulnerable to fungal growth.

I usually cannon FE and go heavy phoenix while I get whatever kind of army I want. Not once has a zerg gotten infestors to shut down the harass, and usually if they pop 9 at a time in the mid-late game, I just pick them all up and kill them while they get 2-3 fungals off on my phoenixes. If the spawning infestors don't fungal all the phoenixes, they'll all die.

In a direct engagement, I'd pick up all the infestors while my colossi/zealots/stalkers took care of the lings. Then I'd go and pick up the lings that are actually attacking my army. If the zerg managed to fungal all my phoenixes, and keep them stunned, he'd shut me down completely. I wonder if this will catch on, it seems pretty solid.

EDIT: meant surrounds, not harass

Bladeorade

United States1898 Posts

May 08 2011 20:08 GMT

#367

On May 09 2011 04:45 pwadoc wrote:
I've tried this out a few times (high diamond), and it seems to just get shut down by an immortal/templar/archon composition, and with the archon buffs it's going to be even worse. Has anyone had any success against this composition?

So if the Protoss scouts you going Ling/Infesotr, and you scout him going Immortal/templar/archon, then you should be a step ahead and be ready to transition.

My preferred transition is Mutalisks, dancing around making them waste storms and try and snipe Immortals so you can more effectively switch to roaches.

And also Ultra/sling/bling/infestor vs Immorta/templar/archon will come down to micro on each side. You can't just A move with either of these compositions.

However if you just transition to Mutalisk harass after seeing him go Immo/Templar/Archon, if you go Broodlords its pretty much game over.

However this is all theory craft and completely pointless.

I have a bunch of replays of myself using this unit composition in the mid game (wins and losses) so I will post them when I get home.

FabledIntegral

United States9232 Posts

May 08 2011 20:17 GMT

#368

I get wrecked by mass blink stalker/immortal/templar/archon. Infestors are essentially useless vs that combo, except when you get lucky when the stalkers clump, which happens in much less frequency when players know wtf they're doing.

BlACKTrA

Germany187 Posts

May 08 2011 20:19 GMT

#369

mhh, i played 2 games against a clan mate, and i can admit that it is very strong, but you be able to deal with the infestors with really good HT micro because if he can fungal you HT , you are able to feedback the infestors. Otherwise you have to pay a lot attention or you are really dead...

Erasme

Bahamas15899 Posts

May 08 2011 20:21 GMT

#370

Against good High templars micro, you can simply research drop (needed for banelings drop anyway) and load infestors in.

Enigmoid

United States48 Posts

May 08 2011 20:33 GMT

#371

I was just thinking... since phoenixes naturally spread out, it's pretty hard to fungal growth them all once you get a ball of 15 or so, which is a little more than what I'll have by the midgame.

Phoenixes also give map control: since they're so fast, if they catch your army out in the open, it's easy to pick up and kill all the infestors. Seems like heavy air is a pretty good response to this composition. I'll post here if I come up against any zergs who do this style.

Warrice

United States565 Posts

May 08 2011 20:40 GMT

#372

if the protoss scouts this and goes high templar its a build order loss.

GLiscor

United Kingdom73 Posts

May 08 2011 20:43 GMT

#373

Would it be possible to neural parasite a high templar and feedback the rest? I havent really tried this style yet but was wondering whether this would be viable if the player had good enough micro.

link0

United States1071 Posts

May 08 2011 20:52 GMT

#374

Infestors have minimal use against protoss due to blink stalkers and HT feedback.

Enigmoid

United States48 Posts

May 08 2011 21:01 GMT

#375

On May 09 2011 05:43 GLiscor wrote:
Would it be possible to neural parasite a high templar and feedback the rest? I havent really tried this style yet but was wondering whether this would be viable if the player had good enough micro.

I saw a game where a terran was using ghosts vs brood lords, and the zerg got infestors to NP a ghost and EMP all the other ghosts. It would be a little harder with high templars, but probably more doable than you'd think. The players were pros, I forget who. Might have been TLO.

jazzbassmatt

United States566 Posts

May 08 2011 21:26 GMT

#376

I've tried this a few times at high diamond level, and end up losing the end battle to either huge amounts of collosus or high templars.

There could be problems with my play in that I'm not:

a) teching to ultra fast enough
or
b) being aggressive enough in the mid game

c) using banelings

but I think it can be difficult to hold off huge amounts of collosus with NP alone. Next time I'll try adding corruptors for late game.

iChau

United States1210 Posts

May 08 2011 22:41 GMT

#377

On May 09 2011 05:52 link0 wrote:
Infestors have minimal use against protoss due to blink stalkers and HT feedback.

I played many infestor-styles and they're fucking strong. Blink stalkers can't blink with fungals, and HT can't get in range to feedback because they're too slow and a fungal stops them in place.

So far, the times that I won vs infestors (with either roaches or lings/blings) was by slowly expading and getting the best position and spread possible if he tries to attack. If it's a big map I can probably snipe the infestors with blink stalkers, but if not, it's pretty hard to kill infestors.

My main army composition was stalker/sentry/void ray/colossi (standard pvz deathball) while expanding slowly after the 3rd (6 minutes, 12 minutes, 15 minutes, 20 minutes, and mass expand since you're maxed) and getting a SHITLOAD of warp-gates to overpower the zerg once he kills the deathball.

fusihunter

Australia208 Posts

May 09 2011 00:15 GMT

#378

I played three games with this last night.

I really liked it, but am not sure how it will fair against early air harass, I don't know if i've got the timings down yet though.

I'd like to see some 6 gate games against this, with the Spanishiwa style, you'll have excess minerals for a while ( when i try it i do anyway :s), so i wonder if a safety roach warren is really that big a deal, i don't think it delays much else ( you'll have 200 minerals less, and i'm not sure if 8 lings is that big a deal).

You should be researching burrow anyway, so the only difference is the lack of +1 range attack at that time.

but yeah if anyone has some reps of a 6 gate timing against this, i'll be really interested in looking into how to either adjust the build, or learn the scout timings.

freetgy

1720 Posts

May 09 2011 15:10 GMT

#379

what is the correct response after scouting Infestors and Mass Zerglings.
assuming a standard 3 Gate Expand
While i have known for a long time that mass Zerglings are the very strong anyway, not beeing able to micro against them makes P highly cost ineffectiv.
i am still lost at how i should become aggressiv against this composition.

You have literally no map control, can't properly expand to a third, and if Infestors got enough energy you can't even fight head on.

fusihunter

Australia208 Posts

May 09 2011 23:18 GMT

#380

I thought i'd post a game i played last night.

The toss put me behind with some super early aggression ( you'll see how far behind... Idra would have quit i'm sure). I held the second attack with just 5 infestors, there's no other zerg unit that's anywhere near as cost efficient against what he attacked me with.

The game ended up going for 40 mins, but after i held his next two or three pushes ( Ultras couldn't have come out at a better time), i started to get ahead.

It's such a huge advantage getting to tier 3 so much earlier as well, as you'll all see.

I made some glaring errors, and so did he, but i think it shows how cost efficient it makes your army.

http://drop.sc/10285

If that link doesn't work let me know.

ps: also because of the early attack the infestors obviously came out a bit later, but at the same time, his tech etc was delayed because of his attack.