EPT[D] Mass Infestors - Dominate ZvP Mid-Game - Page 20
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Chinesewonder
Canada354 Posts
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Andtwo
United States126 Posts
On May 12 2011 03:26 Chinesewonder wrote: Just wondering what you guys do against early phoenix and void ray. I've come across this 3 games, and lost all. I go hydra to counter but then they just seem to mass up ground and go to colossi. I use up all the gas on hydras and dont have enough for infestor. What do you guys do against this? I heard a protoss tell me to just go infestor anyway without hydra, but I dont see how FG can kill off the air especially if they are smart enough to spread out the air units Masters zerg. Ling-infestor is my new way to play ZvP and it's working out for me pretty well. I typically go really light on blings. Off of one base or two? One base is pretty much a free win if they go air against this strat (IF you're ready for it). Two base is more difficult. I typically scout around 13, if I see super early gas and then a second gas, alarm bells go off and it's probably going to be DTs or air. In either case, I try to sort of guess, but I typically make a third queen and then make an evo use my second hundred gas for +1 melee instead of lair, then drop 2 spores (one at each base, only one if you think you're good enough for it and you can afford to drone a bit more against this but be sure to have lings). This should be able to hold off any fast air rush and then when they try to take their natural, try to deny it with speedlings, force the air army back, take your third while spreading creep to that location so you can defend it against air which will come back. Protoss air is very bad against mass spling so on maps like xel'naga you can delay or deny the natural for a fairly substantial time. You'll get used to the timings and when to see if it's air or DTs or 4 gate, etc. If they do something like forge FE/air comes after two base, get the third queen anyway to spread creep towards your third and then take your third somewhat quickly. You have to respect 6 gate here, so be sure they're going air. If they are, just mass some queens while teching to infestors and DRONE--your ground army should be sufficient to deal with their ground army and their ground will be delayed, get some econ up and don't let the harass kill you. The infestors and queens together should be able to hold anything they try off. Try to deny their third with speedlings, but mass infestor should be able to hold this off--you just have to have lots of infestors and very few blings. Throw out some infested marines if you have to. Regardless, try to harass with your lings because the ground army will be weaker and VRs take forever to kill lings but don't go allin with your lings unless you know you can take out something like a nexus or their whole army while your queens and infestors deal with the air elsewhere. You sort of have to break their air army all at once with fungals and once you do that, they're screwed and exploit them with drops, nydus, ultras. If they turtle too hard or it's on a very defendable map, you might need a spire for corruptors as well (remember corruption + fungal hurts the collosus/VR ball a TON and they should not be able to move much due to fungal). Templar tech is more difficult to deal with, I hope that helps. | ||
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raybasto
United States151 Posts
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lindn
Sweden833 Posts
On May 12 2011 04:53 raybasto wrote: I've been doing a variation of this. I've been doing Roach/Infestor/Baneling Drops. Its been working pretty well for me, but one small micro mistake and I autolose. Quick question. When trying to fungal spam a Toss player's army, do you hold shift while spamming F click on the army or do you spam F click without holding shift. Another unrelated Infestor question, when carpet dropping Banelings, do you highlight all your Overlords, hold shift, and D click all your Overlords individually or do you D click without holding shift. Thanks in advance shift F on fungal will be less accurate if he moves away slightly, you might lose ifnestors also shift clicking D to drop doesn't work | ||
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fusihunter
Australia208 Posts
On May 12 2011 03:26 Chinesewonder wrote: Just wondering what you guys do against early phoenix and void ray. I've come across this 3 games, and lost all. I go hydra to counter but then they just seem to mass up ground and go to colossi. I use up all the gas on hydras and dont have enough for infestor. What do you guys do against this? I heard a protoss tell me to just go infestor anyway without hydra, but I dont see how FG can kill off the air especially if they are smart enough to spread out the air units Just make infestors, it takes 5 or 6 fungals to kill clumped air units. In order to make them clump wait for them to attack something. While hydras shoot up, i find them a waste of gas because you can't use them later. I think you're better off with queens/ spores, and infestors only. | ||
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bankai
362 Posts
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Noro
Canada991 Posts
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Eraz0rZ
Netherlands47 Posts
but how do i stop this strat in midgame? templar wont be out yet. collosi might be out but 1 collosi ranging to infestor (3/4) is impossible. It feels broken in the hands of a good player.. | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On May 12 2011 14:58 bankai wrote: From a Protoss point of view, it sounds like the weak point of the speedling/infestor build is the early game?? So to counter this as P, should I put more pressure on zerg (e.g. 4 gate) since they are only getting zerglings and trying to tech fast to infestors?? It depends on the opening, but imho 4gate is easy to defend unless the Zerg rushes blindly to infestors. I haven't played on Patch 1.3.3 yet, but it should be even easier now. It all depends on how the Zerg scouts and adapts, if he doesn't, something as simple as a DT rush could kill him anyways as they arrive before infestors are out and possibly even before lair finishes (btw: Fungal decloaks units as long as it lasts, which isn't long, but long enough). You have to pressure the Zerg to delay infestors, but all-ins are always a risky choice. 3-gate pressure into expand into High templars would be the best choice imho, as a templar can easily kill infestors with feedback, so it becomes quite a heavy micro battle. PS: Fun can be had for the Zerg with infestors neuraling high templars and feedbacking other templars :p | ||
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Noro
Canada991 Posts
On May 12 2011 15:25 Eraz0rZ wrote: i have been having probles versus this build as protoss aswell. If someone can Fungal and burrow its impossible to defeat, it negates any micro and i cant run from it. No point in having a larger army cuz my units cant attack with the rediculous 9 range. but how do i stop this strat in midgame? templar wont be out yet. collosi might be out but 1 collosi ranging to infestor (3/4) is impossible. It feels broken in the hands of a good player.. I think good scouting is key. Keep an eye on their tech with obs. If they're going heavy ling, push in with Zealots early and make them pay for it. If mid game is where they're most powerful, you either have to kill them fast or defend until you have templar and archons. | ||
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bankai
362 Posts
On May 12 2011 15:27 Morfildur wrote: It depends on the opening, but imho 4gate is easy to defend unless the Zerg rushes blindly to infestors. I haven't played on Patch 1.3.3 yet, but it should be even easier now. It all depends on how the Zerg scouts and adapts, if he doesn't, something as simple as a DT rush could kill him anyways as they arrive before infestors are out and possibly even before lair finishes (btw: Fungal decloaks units as long as it lasts, which isn't long, but long enough). You have to pressure the Zerg to delay infestors, but all-ins are always a risky choice. 3-gate pressure into expand into High templars would be the best choice imho, as a templar can easily kill infestors with feedback, so it becomes quite a heavy micro battle. PS: Fun can be had for the Zerg with infestors neuraling high templars and feedbacking other templars :p By 3-gate pressure, do you mean instead of doing the 3 gate sentry expand like normal, build more zealots/stalkers and pressure, then expand behind the pressure?? | ||
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GMonster
686 Posts
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On May 12 2011 15:43 bankai wrote: By 3-gate pressure, do you mean instead of doing the 3 gate sentry expand like normal, build more zealots/stalkers and pressure, then expand behind the pressure?? Either that or sentry expand and then pressure ASAP, though i think earlier pressure is the key as there is only a small timing window before he gets infestors out and your normal army gets crushed. I'm only a random player in diamond with protoss as worst race, but i think a strong, zealot-heavy attack (remember: No or very late roaches) can do a lot of damage and save you the gas to get faster to high templars. If he spends the gas for banelings you have achieved your primary goal to delay his infestors. Just retreat and continue with normal play while getting your HTs ready to feedback. | ||
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dredlockz
Finland42 Posts
But I have to say it seems to be mostly a metagame thing since protoss players seem to just make blind stalkers and even immortals sometimes and im like LOLWUT? *attack-move infinite speedlings* and win. It's amazing how this wins against a colossi deathball. I've defeated 6 colossi and a bunch of stalker/zealot with just lings and infestors, its crazy. The counter for this is zealots and templars/archons, of course. Feedback is a harsh mistress. | ||
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Argus92
Netherlands93 Posts
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impression
413 Posts
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EliteReplay
Dominican Republic913 Posts
On May 12 2011 20:57 Argus92 wrote: Neutral Parasite and Fungal Gworth are quite scary for P. The only thing is that it needs much much practice, its risky. Many P users have yet to come up with a good counter, so Z's should use that chance The problem with this is u need to go collosi route 90% of the time vs Z, and u cant switch army like zerg do because we need to much gas to have a good army to fight Z... even u knowing there are infestors comming, and u already have a collosi or 2, u cant go HT because u wont have army to fight him if he attacks u. | ||
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TigerKarl
1757 Posts
Why? - Roaches are effective in more situations than speedlings. You can even overwhelm the opponent in narrow hallway situations -Roaches have insane Hitpoints for their cost. Infestors are the guys for the big damage (depending on the Protoss timing they cast only fungal growth or fungal growth & neural parasite on colossi or immortals), so Roaches are some kind of meatshield, that does even ok damage themselves. -The possibility of burrow micro, which i have not yet played myself though. I thin Roach/Infestor is a more robust style, while Speedling/Infestor is stronger when it comes to counter attacks and thinning the opponent out. | ||
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SaroVati
Canada280 Posts
What I mentioned above is definitely eventually going to change PvZ. Of course, you can be consciously micro'ing your.... sentries behind, colossi in front to snipe infestors? Some how I see that losing a game for a toss in the lead just cause his colossi have to be in the front, or a flanking infestor rips up ALL the sentries because they are kept behind seems ridiculous. Hello Immortal Templar Archon Stalker =) | ||
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joeyBanana
Germany77 Posts
 BTT: Is this BO ZvT "viable"? | ||
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