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On May 12 2011 23:38 TigerKarl wrote:
I prefer to combine mainly roaches and only a handful of speedlings with the mass (about 6-10) infestor play.
Why?
- Roaches are effective in more situations than speedlings. You can even overwhelm the opponent in narrow hallway situations
-Roaches have insane Hitpoints for their cost. Infestors are the guys for the big damage (depending on the Protoss timing they cast only fungal growth or fungal growth & neural parasite on colossi or immortals), so Roaches are some kind of meatshield, that does even ok damage themselves.
-The possibility of burrow micro, which i have not yet played myself though.
I thin Roach/Infestor is a more robust style, while Speedling/Infestor is stronger when it comes to counter attacks and thinning the opponent out.
they're both good, at least in the mid-game.
however for the late-game, as you approach a maxed army, roaches become very weak. Melee is definitely better, for a few reasons:
-higher dps. lings/banelings both have way higher dps/supply than roaches. In fact a single zergling has almost the same dps as a single roach (7.18 for zergling, 8 for roach), but zergling takes up only .5 supply, while roach takes up 2 supply. In fact, after you get full upgrades, a single zergling actually does more dps than a roach (11.49 for a +3 attack zergling with adrenal upgrade, 11 for a +3 attack roach)!
-faster. roaches have decent speed, but ling/bane definitely has much higher speed. This, along with the higher dps, makes zerglings much better for backstabs, responding to attacks, and all-around mobility.
-better with drops. ling drops are devastating late-game (see this recent game to see how devastating a 3-overlord zergling drop can be). Then of course there's baneling drops, where 1 overlord can take out most of the mineral line, and if you have +2 melee, then 1 overlord can take out an entire mineral line.
-better upgrades. both broodlords & ultras take advantage of melee upgrades. But there are no T3 ranged units, so you have to use roach/hydra in order to take advantage of ranged upgrades.
Another thing is, if you go roaches, that will delay your infestors, since roaches use gas, meanwhile zerglings are mineral-only and let you get a bunch of infestors quicker.
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On May 13 2011 00:37 joeyBanana wrote:Loving this strategy! What do you think about using it against T ? Except for Heavy-Mech-Style, it should really deal with almost anything. Although you're a little bit more vulnerable to drops, if you dont use mutas. An infestor at your mineral should work like a charm, though. For harassing you can use them offensively, burrowing and fungaling their workers like a baller  BTT: Is this BO ZvT "viable"?
Well not particularly same BO, but infestors in ZvT are very good, i have been using only infestors vs terran for like last 3-4 months. Master zerg here
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-higher dps. lings/banelings both have way higher dps/supply than roaches. In fact a single zergling has almost the same dps as a single roach (7.18 for zergling, 8 for roach), but zergling takes up only .5 supply, while roach takes up 2 supply. In fact, after you get full upgrades, a single zergling actually does more dps than a roach (11.49 for a +3 attack zergling with adrenal upgrade, 11 for a +3 attack roach)!
-faster. roaches have decent speed, but ling/bane definitely has much higher speed. This, along with the higher dps, makes zerglings much better for backstabs, responding to attacks, and all-around mobility.
This is largely true, but i think it overlooks important facts about base damage. because late game, you're talking about +4 protoss armor, which actually does make a huge difference in the case of zerglings. another consideration is effective DPS, as FF'ed roaches have non-zero DPS whereas zerglings that are FF'ed have zero DPS.
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On May 14 2011 21:38 familyguy123 wrote:Show nested quote +
-higher dps. lings/banelings both have way higher dps/supply than roaches. In fact a single zergling has almost the same dps as a single roach (7.18 for zergling, 8 for roach), but zergling takes up only .5 supply, while roach takes up 2 supply. In fact, after you get full upgrades, a single zergling actually does more dps than a roach (11.49 for a +3 attack zergling with adrenal upgrade, 11 for a +3 attack roach)!
-faster. roaches have decent speed, but ling/bane definitely has much higher speed. This, along with the higher dps, makes zerglings much better for backstabs, responding to attacks, and all-around mobility.
This is largely true, but i think it overlooks important facts about base damage. because late game, you're talking about +4 protoss armor, which actually does make a huge difference in the case of zerglings. another consideration is effective DPS, as FF'ed roaches have non-zero DPS whereas zerglings that are FF'ed have zero DPS.
Once you get to tier 3 though you should have either broodlords ( FF's are counter productive, because you have to get under the BL's), or ultras ( smash FF's).
I really feel like lings are alot better because you can also force the Collossi to spread there fire more once they surround.
I guess either way it's situational, i just wonder if the role of the roach dps vs ling is even an issue considering you have Fungal, and tier 3 in the late game.
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Ok guys, But anyone knows how actually get infestors? Because title of this thread is Infestors dominate ZvP. Cool. But how the hell can zerg defend while teching to infestors. I guess you need to delay 3rd alot, but what about 6 gate? u cant defend it with pure lings (cause of force fields). Even ling baneling seems luck based, because with good ff you will lose too many lings/banes to crush it. And small spread makes banes much worse too.
If zerg makes million spines, yes, he can get infestors, but then enemy can safely expand to his 3rd, u lose map control, u cant make 3rd easily. And infestors arent going to win game if you have better economy, i think that maybe mutas would be even better, if we are deciding to heavily spine our base, because we can regain map control with mutas. Infestors need alot of lings too for help, so alot of hatches/minerals is also needed.So basicalyl you need those bases above 2, and then spining is quite bad idea i would say.
So anyone has any idea how t oget safely into infestors? Not dying to 6 gate, and still having good upgrades on lings? (speedlings stop working if protoss has +1 attack more than you armor=>> zealots 2 hitting lings)
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On May 12 2011 05:27 lindn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2011 04:53 raybasto wrote:
I've been doing a variation of this. I've been doing Roach/Infestor/Baneling Drops. Its been working pretty well for me, but one small micro mistake and I autolose. Quick question. When trying to fungal spam a Toss player's army, do you hold shift while spamming F click on the army or do you spam F click without holding shift. Another unrelated Infestor question, when carpet dropping Banelings, do you highlight all your Overlords, hold shift, and D click all your Overlords individually or do you D click without holding shift. Thanks in advance shift F on fungal will be less accurate if he moves away slightly, you might lose ifnestors also shift clicking D to drop doesn't work
What are you talking about? You can use shift click with D to drop. In order to make line drops you shift click to a location shift click D on overlord and shift click in the direction you want to line drop.
Try this trick with 2 Overlords loaded with Banelings and then move you army around near his base or even attack right before the drops get there. It is extremely hard for the Protoss to deal with and I expect only high masters or grandmasters to be able to handle it unless it was scouted first.
This little trick has almost never failed me when he fails to scout it.
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so, blink stalker, blinking in to snipe your infestors basically kill you?
It doesn't say anything about blink stalkers in this thread, this is why I'm asking.
I know zerglings deal with stalkers, but if they kill your infestors, lings are left alone against colossus, zealots and sentries with their FF which are as we all know, OP 
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From the viewpoint of a Masters protoss...
I really hate it when GOOD zergs gets infestors. It can completely shut down any type of agression i can put out in the early/mid game. There's nothing worse than seeing a ball of sentries get fungaled and just die.
That being said, I still feel like i can beat this strategy with just careful engagements. I always have something spotting the enemy army so I don't move into a trap, get fungal'ed, and instantly lose all my units. Forcefields are also always really good against any heavy ling type of play.
But usually I'm relieved to see my opponent going for infestors, because then I feel like I'm going to win. Most people that I play against don't micro them well enough for me to be as scared as I should be of them. That's probably why you don't see them used as much as they should be, because they are one of the more micro intensive units out there.
Also, please don't post any guide about how to go ling infestor w/baneling drops... that's one I just can't seem to beat!
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I've been getting out 6-8 infestors before getting my third and then going muta/ling/bling. Once you max you have this ridiculous amount of ranged, melee, and AOE DPS that is tough to stop.
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this is pretty cool... but wouldnt this be countered by protoss just spreading his units out instead of being in a tiny ball?
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umm if they scout mass lings into infestor all they gotta do is a 6-7 gate off 2 base tmiing all in and ur screwed no way u can have enough infesotrs in time and lings will get torn apart by a +1 attack on zealots
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any good P at a high level will spread his units as well using force fields completely negating any king of ling attacks and fungals being worth while
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On May 25 2011 04:45 Limenade wrote:
umm if they scout mass lings into infestor all they gotta do is a 6-7 gate off 2 base tmiing all in and ur screwed no way u can have enough infesotrs in time and lings will get torn apart by a +1 attack on zealots
If you build 4+ spines at your natural you should be in a good position to defend warpgate builds, especially if there is a choke by your natural. Once you get some infestors out you can resume producing mainstay units to break out.
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Sorry if this is a stupid question, but at 19 supply where u say to drone scout, if you already have 2 sets of lings out, why don't you use that to scout instead of sacing a drone?
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Also are there any more replays other than the vod of losira vs MVP?
edit: nvm, finally found it deep within the post, you should put it where it's easier to see.
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How does one go ling/infestor against any army with colossus and sentry? The colossus roasts all the lings, and the sentry just ff's the infestors away. I feel like the only way to fight this is getting fast ultras, or somehow killing all their sentries beforehand, or praying that you get neurals off and they don't focus fire. It just seems like whenever I engage all my ground army is instantly evaporated and my infestors are left alone.
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^^
Try baiting FF's when you harass and adding in some baneling drops. Sentries can't FF with 0 energy or if they're dead
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On July 25 2011 16:12 KimJongChill wrote:
How does one go ling/infestor against any army with colossus and sentry? The colossus roasts all the lings, and the sentry just ff's the infestors away. I feel like the only way to fight this is getting fast ultras, or somehow killing all their sentries beforehand, or praying that you get neurals off and they don't focus fire. It just seems like whenever I engage all my ground army is instantly evaporated and my infestors are left alone.
Infested terran throw over the Ff's spread them out and cast parasite while you wait for the ff's to expire and the lings to run in
If its really bad sentry colossi then baneling drop from overlords is far better and will obliterate his sentry numbers while your lings then kill the colossi.
I'm glad this thread got necroed I think infestors are the revolution the zerg's been wating so long for. The Swarms time has come.
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Hmm, maybe go baneling drops first, and then transition into infestors? In my experience, a toss with good army control just makes infestors useless fatties :c
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On May 28 2011 12:07 Trakky wrote:
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but at 19 supply where u say to drone scout, if you already have 2 sets of lings out, why don't you use that to scout instead of sacing a drone? drones can get by the blocking zealot by mineral ghosting
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EPT
