|
You guys keep saying that the hydralisks can't reach the carriers... but they're not supposed to. You get equal results fighting Carriers with Hydras if you just let them sit back and auto-target interceptors -- chasing after the ships themselves is stupid.
Anyone trying to micro their hydras INTO the enemy army is asking to die. Same as running them at banelings.
That aside, this strategy looks workable but nowhere near as good as you say. A smart player building corruptors will not simply let you harass his mineral line while his corruptors are far away... he'll just stay nearby and if you try to attack him anywhere he'll be there already, simply because his base area is smaller than the area you have to cover going around the corruptors, and phoenix aren't THAT fast.
I wouldn't even think about challenging the Protoss for air dominance if they did a build like this, past maybe killing the phoenix off with Corruptors. I'd probably just go roach/hydra and push into them and fall back before FFs become a problem. Ideally I could expand behind the pressure or position overlords for, say, nydusing their main with Zerglings or doing an actual drop when your phoenix have to fall back or you die. The phoenix can't be everywhere at once, though they are quite good wherever they happen to be.
The idea of sending DTs to bases that already have detection is also quite flawed -- a smart Zerg will send enough lings to the base while running his queen/drones away from your DTs, which would probably result in rather lackluster ground harassment. The phoenix will stay useful for a bit, though.
The only REAL problem I see with this build is that it relies completely on your opponent mucking up to get ahead. If they play very cautiously and don't lose much to your harass (which is 100% possible) you will outright lose when they get enough units. Same thing goes for early aggression leading into bigger attacks that just force you out of this build before you get any mileage out of the Stargates. Any time I see a Protoss player make a Void Ray I giggle with delight, because I can do heavy damage to him unless he turtles, hard, with lings.
|
On March 18 2011 14:44 DarthXX wrote:
Mutas shread phoenix when they hit a nice number, however with this build you will be able to produce a lot more phoeinx than we normally see. What I mean is we usually see things like 5-6 phoenix getting taken out by 25+ mutas, but I think if you had like 15 phoenix it would be a different story. But its hard to say since we've never seen this in a pro game.
Um... A critical mass of mutas will kill just about anything in small numbers.
|
On March 19 2011 07:47 Hierarch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2011 06:49 Gemini_19 wrote:So upon seeing this thread, I became inspired to try a little bit of air play in my PvZ. Here's my first go at it. I didn't feel comfortable doing a 100% change in play just because I'm not sure how well it would work, so you will see some colossus and blink stalkers etc. ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-196670.jpg) I open with a 3gate expand with phoenix's to scout/harass and eventually get void rays and then carriers once I get 3 bases. I didn't go hardcore into the air play, but I continued to use it throughout the game. I found that the carriers seem to be more effective than I had perceived. Take it for what it's worth. Some more discussion for what it may be like used at a more top level of play. Both players are 3200+ Masters. I also use blink stalkers in my air composition, but if you had stopped colossus, carrier production and gone like 3 stargate voidray you would have won since he started going corrupter/roach/ling. Also the 2nd forge and templar archives were wasted buildings I feel. Also when zerg was trying to push with roaches you could have lifted 3-4 of them with your idle phoenix and just gotten free kills. Another key point is if you had gone up to 6-7 phoenix instead of the 4-5 you had you could have killed all those queens instead of having to run away. I also take my 3rd a lot sooner than youdid, but that could have been due to that pesky zergling. Another point is that if you had kept up the air upgrades your carriers and voidrays would have done even better, the voidrays especially vs those corrupters. But glad to see people are trying it out :D
Yeah, like I said it was my first time trying so everything you said I noticed afterwords and realized how much better it would have been.
The late 3rd was cause of that zergling, so that was just unfortunate.
I wanted to get more air upgrades but just straight up forgot...haha.
The templar archives was just to have just in case. When you get maxed, usually it's a good thing to just throw down everything you don't yet have just to have it. I had the money to do it so I did. I could have obviously done without it tho as I didn't use it. It was more of a "better safe than sorry" aspect since I had the money at the time and it never really hurt me.
The 2nd forge I feel helped. Let me get to 2-2 faster and I possibly would have lost the big battle with the large amount of brood lords had I not had the 2-2, however I don't know the timings of any of that, I'm just speculating.
I'll continue trying it out tho  I'll update here if you'd like.
|
On March 19 2011 08:41 GoldenH wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2011 08:19 Hierarch wrote:On March 19 2011 08:11 GoldenH wrote:Looks like you're doing some experimenting, good luck. At higher levels I think you'll discover that hydras really aren't a problem, the problem is corruptor mixes and roach timings. Here's a similar thread I posted a while back. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=186599 Ya I definitely feel that corrupter roach timings can be quite effective, but how would a corrupter roach timing do against a gateway/voidray composition? Considering normally when people make voidrays they aren't working on upgrades for them. I'll check out that thread for sure :D Well corruptor/roach isn't much of a problem, in fact, that's pretty much the best thing for you if you're building void rays, the thing is that there are timings with just roaches, or roach/hydra mixes, or going hydra then switching to corruptors, that can be hard to scout and deal with when your core unit takes 2 whole minutes to produce.
I feel that this build is getting put into a corner like the colossus builds, in a colossus build the protoss must go colossus to survive. You don't have to get carriers at all in this build, but it's the end game transition from a 2 stargate midgame. You could just pump voidrays and/or more phoenix and push out with a gateway composition.
On March 19 2011 08:37 iChau wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2011 07:33 scatmango2 wrote:
You're theory-crafting. This uses a 3 gate sentry expo, not a forge fe, which means you can defend the drops by paying attention. Can you point out where I said forge fast expand? You act as if arguing with me with your theory-crafting some how makes it more viable... LOL. The proof is in the pudding that you don't see this in pro-play because IT DOES NOT WORK.
You really need to pay attention to the mistakes. You think map-control and the ground army consisting of 8 sentries and many stalkers can't stop a drop from coming?
"You make it sound like this build only consists of air units." < This man is correct.
If you were 4000 masters for real, you would read and pay attention carefully to what this build has, which is a 3 gate sentry expand army, capable of defending from overlords if you pay attention with observers, hallucination, etc. 3 gate sentry expos has constant hallucination scouting, what makes you think we can't scout 200000 overlords coming towards our base?[/QUOTE]
Not to mention phoenix constantly flying around the map and pylons around the map :D
|
On March 19 2011 08:41 GoldenH wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2011 08:19 Hierarch wrote:On March 19 2011 08:11 GoldenH wrote:Looks like you're doing some experimenting, good luck. At higher levels I think you'll discover that hydras really aren't a problem, the problem is corruptor mixes and roach timings. Here's a similar thread I posted a while back. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=186599 Ya I definitely feel that corrupter roach timings can be quite effective, but how would a corrupter roach timing do against a gateway/voidray composition? Considering normally when people make voidrays they aren't working on upgrades for them. I'll check out that thread for sure :D Well corruptor/roach isn't much of a problem, in fact, that's pretty much the best thing for you if you're building void rays, the thing is that there are timings with just roaches, or roach/hydra mixes, or going hydra then switching to corruptors, that can be hard to scout and deal with when your core unit takes 2 whole minutes to produce.
I'm pretty sure you don't understand. The build has a lot of flexibility based on what you are scouting. Having a build where you just blindly go any unit is pretty stupid at any level of play. Plus, he's not going carriers until his third is up and the timings that you are talking about seem to be well before that.
|
On March 19 2011 08:53 mamuto wrote:
Okay, so I loaded up a custom game with a buddy who offraced as zerg for me. We didn't play seriously, he wanted to see this strategy I've been raving so much about today. I tried getting 25+ phoenix like I posted earlier, and its just a hard number to hit. I did have 20-22 constantly (losing a couple to spore/hydra) and
oh. my. god.
It completely destroys everything other than a 50 hydra ball.
I flew into a cloud of overlords and they all died. I didn't attack move, i was just flying away from hydra/corruptor. They melted. I was constantly supply capping my friend and he was 30-40 under the cap too.
I tried the larva killing trick, and 20 phoenix make short work of it. I am not sure, but it seems like you dont even need the +1 air attack to damage the larva (you are guaranteed 1 damage no matter the armor amount). Not too sure about this, maybe someone can confirm.
This is far more deadly than a muta ball harass. I could outrun his hydras on creep, and his corruptors. I hit his 3rd, natural, and main with minimal losses other than to spore crawlers. Now, I'm sure a masters/pro will be able to split his army properly to defend everywhere, but if you got 20 phoenix up against 5-10 hydras, lift those bad boys up. Or hit the main with air, and the 3rd with zealots. Seriously, 20 phoenix is brutal. Very quick to get them, too. And I noticed I was floating gas more than minerals, but that might be because I wasn't upgrading consistently.
Problems arose in big battles. he had pure hydra corruptor (max upgrades) vs. my archon/void/carrier and it stomped me. He still had about 6-7 hydras left over and I had nothing.
Hierarch, what do you think about HT's? You're getting charge as soon as possible already, HT's will be very effective against pure hydra balls, corruptors are useless, and something like infestors can and will be feedback'd. I guess it'd depend on what the zerg chooses to do, but mass hydra/corruptor is not pleasant to deal with. You can always morph into archons, too.
A bit off from your general strategy, but something like a zealot/HT/voidray/phoenix mix (with 20+ phoenix) might be totally killer.
Thoughts?
I am extremely intrigued about the 15-20 phoenix ball, and plan on trying it out tonight. I feel that a super late game transition into HT was a mass corrupter hydra ball would be worth it. I'll have to experiment with it more and then I can comment on it further.
|
So can someone who thinks this is a completely retarded build and will never work give some sort of insight into how to stop it? Instead of just saying its bullshit...
Even if the initial harass does no damage, with cannons and ff it is hard to attack into a turtling protoss (if your not all ining). The only headway I've made is to get Carapace upgrades for air. Other than that this is as bad as the colossus ball.
|
On March 19 2011 08:56 CapnAmerica wrote:
You guys keep saying that the hydralisks can't reach the carriers... but they're not supposed to. You get equal results fighting Carriers with Hydras if you just let them sit back and auto-target interceptors -- chasing after the ships themselves is stupid.
Anyone trying to micro their hydras INTO the enemy army is asking to die. Same as running them at banelings.
That aside, this strategy looks workable but nowhere near as good as you say. A smart player building corruptors will not simply let you harass his mineral line while his corruptors are far away... he'll just stay nearby and if you try to attack him anywhere he'll be there already, simply because his base area is smaller than the area you have to cover going around the corruptors, and phoenix aren't THAT fast.
I wouldn't even think about challenging the Protoss for air dominance if they did a build like this, past maybe killing the phoenix off with Corruptors. I'd probably just go roach/hydra and push into them and fall back before FFs become a problem. Ideally I could expand behind the pressure or position overlords for, say, nydusing their main with Zerglings or doing an actual drop when your phoenix have to fall back or you die. The phoenix can't be everywhere at once, though they are quite good wherever they happen to be.
The idea of sending DTs to bases that already have detection is also quite flawed -- a smart Zerg will send enough lings to the base while running his queen/drones away from your DTs, which would probably result in rather lackluster ground harassment. The phoenix will stay useful for a bit, though.
The only REAL problem I see with this build is that it relies completely on your opponent mucking up to get ahead. If they play very cautiously and don't lose much to your harass (which is 100% possible) you will outright lose when they get enough units. Same thing goes for early aggression leading into bigger attacks that just force you out of this build before you get any mileage out of the Stargates. Any time I see a Protoss player make a Void Ray I giggle with delight, because I can do heavy damage to him unless he turtles, hard, with lings.
If the zerg is turtling than I am free to expand, which is a "win" in my eyes, and it also gives me even more map dominance. Corrupters have a movement speed of 2.95 while phoenix have a movement speed of 4.25, that's quite a bit faster, while I can go pick up drones and kill them quickly, even if your corrupters get a volley off they don't get bonus damage and the phoenix run away.
I do feel that nydus and drop play could be strong against this, but phoenix really are just that fast where they can be from one place to another, to go from offense to defense just like that.
I don't understand why a zerg would be making lings against a zealot heavy ground army with a heavy air composition? If I see zerglings I'll just push, and theres not much a zergling army can do, I also heavily canon my 3rd and 4th bases with 5-6 canons.
The DT's are mostly for patroling possible expos from the zerg, they can just win the game by killing enough drones. I only make 4-6 per game to harass, but the access to DT's also gives me access to Archons.
The phoenix come fast enough and in a good amount where they are guaranteed to do some damage, they are too fast and kill drones too fast for them not to do enough damage, even if they force 2-3 spores at each base that's economic damage, while i can shift into voidray production and take a 3rd base. Also this build is a turtle type build like the colossus build, but it allows phoenix to give you something to do while turtling.
Just my thoughts, but you bring up some valid points.
|
On March 19 2011 09:09 Gemini_19 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2011 07:47 Hierarch wrote:On March 19 2011 06:49 Gemini_19 wrote:So upon seeing this thread, I became inspired to try a little bit of air play in my PvZ. Here's my first go at it. I didn't feel comfortable doing a 100% change in play just because I'm not sure how well it would work, so you will see some colossus and blink stalkers etc. I open with a 3gate expand with phoenix's to scout/harass and eventually get void rays and then carriers once I get 3 bases. I didn't go hardcore into the air play, but I continued to use it throughout the game. I found that the carriers seem to be more effective than I had perceived. Take it for what it's worth. Some more discussion for what it may be like used at a more top level of play. Both players are 3200+ Masters. I also use blink stalkers in my air composition, but if you had stopped colossus, carrier production and gone like 3 stargate voidray you would have won since he started going corrupter/roach/ling. Also the 2nd forge and templar archives were wasted buildings I feel. Also when zerg was trying to push with roaches you could have lifted 3-4 of them with your idle phoenix and just gotten free kills. Another key point is if you had gone up to 6-7 phoenix instead of the 4-5 you had you could have killed all those queens instead of having to run away. I also take my 3rd a lot sooner than youdid, but that could have been due to that pesky zergling. Another point is that if you had kept up the air upgrades your carriers and voidrays would have done even better, the voidrays especially vs those corrupters. But glad to see people are trying it out :D Yeah, like I said it was my first time trying so everything you said I noticed afterwords and realized how much better it would have been. The late 3rd was cause of that zergling, so that was just unfortunate. I wanted to get more air upgrades but just straight up forgot...haha. The templar archives was just to have just in case. When you get maxed, usually it's a good thing to just throw down everything you don't yet have just to have it. I had the money to do it so I did. I could have obviously done without it tho as I didn't use it. It was more of a "better safe than sorry" aspect since I had the money at the time and it never really hurt me. The 2nd forge I feel helped. Let me get to 2-2 faster and I possibly would have lost the big battle with the large amount of brood lords had I not had the 2-2, however I don't know the timings of any of that, I'm just speculating. I'll continue trying it out tho I'll update here if you'd like.
Please update me of course, also my favorite part of this build is that zerg T3 actually cannot touch protoss air, Voidrays get 2 bonuses vs ultras and broodlords, (massive and armored). The templar archives I feel would have been justified if you'd upgraded storm and the amulet 
I feel with constant upgrades from 1 forge and 1 cyber core constantly chronoboosted can be effective.
|
well i don't see how this build deals with harass since obviously your Air fleet needs to stick together.
i mean let say your opponent throws 20-30 zerglings at you how are you defending your natural? are you totally walling of and hope for canons?
i somewhat doubt that this is able to secure you a 3rd safely.
|
On March 19 2011 09:40 freetgy wrote:
well i don't see how this build deals with harass since obviously your Air fleet needs to stick together.
i mean let say your opponent throws 20-30 zerglings at you how are you defending your natural? are you totally walling of and hope for canons?
i somewhat doubt that this is able to secure you a 3rd safely.
20-30 zerglings vs canons, 10-15 zealots? My phoenix don't need to be with the rest of my air fleet since they are so fast they can go from offense to defense. I set up a sim city at my natural, not a full wall off. Also my 3rd gets canons to zone the entrance that's not near my base.
As tasteless says "These are Starcraft II canons and are sooooooooooooo much better than BW canons."
|
This is an amazing build, I used this the first time yesterday and I downright destroyed a zerg(He did exactly what you said, got confused and made mass corrupters who simply died to a medium void ray ball). Carriers with 2/2 just destroy the ground and the zealots buffer very nicely.
I'm 3200 Protoss master's btw
|
On March 19 2011 09:35 Hierarch wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 19 2011 08:56 CapnAmerica wrote:
You guys keep saying that the hydralisks can't reach the carriers... but they're not supposed to. You get equal results fighting Carriers with Hydras if you just let them sit back and auto-target interceptors -- chasing after the ships themselves is stupid.
Anyone trying to micro their hydras INTO the enemy army is asking to die. Same as running them at banelings.
That aside, this strategy looks workable but nowhere near as good as you say. A smart player building corruptors will not simply let you harass his mineral line while his corruptors are far away... he'll just stay nearby and if you try to attack him anywhere he'll be there already, simply because his base area is smaller than the area you have to cover going around the corruptors, and phoenix aren't THAT fast.
I wouldn't even think about challenging the Protoss for air dominance if they did a build like this, past maybe killing the phoenix off with Corruptors. I'd probably just go roach/hydra and push into them and fall back before FFs become a problem. Ideally I could expand behind the pressure or position overlords for, say, nydusing their main with Zerglings or doing an actual drop when your phoenix have to fall back or you die. The phoenix can't be everywhere at once, though they are quite good wherever they happen to be.
The idea of sending DTs to bases that already have detection is also quite flawed -- a smart Zerg will send enough lings to the base while running his queen/drones away from your DTs, which would probably result in rather lackluster ground harassment. The phoenix will stay useful for a bit, though.
The only REAL problem I see with this build is that it relies completely on your opponent mucking up to get ahead. If they play very cautiously and don't lose much to your harass (which is 100% possible) you will outright lose when they get enough units. Same thing goes for early aggression leading into bigger attacks that just force you out of this build before you get any mileage out of the Stargates. Any time I see a Protoss player make a Void Ray I giggle with delight, because I can do heavy damage to him unless he turtles, hard, with lings. If the zerg is turtling than I am free to expand, which is a "win" in my eyes, and it also gives me even more map dominance. Corrupters have a movement speed of 2.95 while phoenix have a movement speed of 4.25, that's quite a bit faster, while I can go pick up drones and kill them quickly, even if your corrupters get a volley off they don't get bonus damage and the phoenix run away. I do feel that nydus and drop play could be strong against this, but phoenix really are just that fast where they can be from one place to another, to go from offense to defense just like that. I don't understand why a zerg would be making lings against a zealot heavy ground army with a heavy air composition? If I see zerglings I'll just push, and theres not much a zergling army can do, I also heavily canon my 3rd and 4th bases with 5-6 canons. The DT's are mostly for patroling possible expos from the zerg, they can just win the game by killing enough drones. I only make 4-6 per game to harass, but the access to DT's also gives me access to Archons. The phoenix come fast enough and in a good amount where they are guaranteed to do some damage, they are too fast and kill drones too fast for them not to do enough damage, even if they force 2-3 spores at each base that's economic damage, while i can shift into voidray production and take a 3rd base. Also this build is a turtle type build like the colossus build, but it allows phoenix to give you something to do while turtling. Just my thoughts, but you bring up some valid points.
Point by point:
So the Phoenix are about 50% faster when accelerated than Corruptors -- it still doesn't negate the fact that the Corruptors have to travel a MUCH shorter distance to cover mineral lines, which they should be doing. If the Zerg is turtling, they should still be expanding and making harassment units if possible (Zerglings).
You don't make Zerglings to directly combat his army, you do it to harass. Zerglings are faster than Phoenix and can wreak havoc on a base or mineral line even if you simcity fairly well if Nydus Worms are used.
Cannons take time to warp-in, a pro-active Zerg will be hitting before those cannons are morphed in while still focusing on building up an attack force -- with proper control it eventually reaches a point where you have to move out with some of your army and you will probably lose it with your weaker ground army if the Zerg pushes at all.
DTs are fantastic, but with detection already out a Zerg who is on the ball will be saving those units from dying in the first place (because the red dots are kind of obvious on the minimap) and killing the DTs before they do much damage to your buildings.
Phoenix harass doesn't come until after the expansion is up, so standard Roach/Hydra play would already have Hydra tech available to deal with early Phoenix harass (before the 3rd round or so of Phoenix popped) and if you hit later there could already be a timing push on your base with Roach/Hydra before your harass did much damage. Hiding the Phoenix and surprising your opponent is the only way to guarantee damage in that situation.
Also, the spores aren't useless because you plan to make DTs later. :< This build will definitely punish unprepared Zergs HARD, but if they scout it a lot of its value is lost.
|
On March 18 2011 14:28 Hierarch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 14:21 oOOoOphidian wrote:
Mutas are actually extremely good against Phoenix as long as there are a decent number of them. Definitely not worth dismissing that.
Good build, though. I've long thought that Carriers were incredibly underused, especially given the huge delays that Phoenix builds can cause in Zerg's ability to mass and push out. If I see mutas being made I can outproduce zerg and keep air dominance with 2 chronoboosted stargate phoenix, maybe not worth dismissing entirely, but to be fair like 90% of zergs won't bother with the investment into mutas if they see 4-5 phoenix already. Thanks for the input though, but do you think a zerg could fight for air dominance against phoenix? Even if they did get equal numbers how would zerg hold off a push of zealot/sentry/stalker/phoenix?
A lot of it depends on differences in upgrades (double core + chrono boost can let Protoss get ahead on air ups). Guardian shield obviously helps a lot too.
If someone was already planning a muta/ling build they might not really switch out of it even if they see phoenix, because your build doesn't exactly rush for phoenix. Worth practicing against muta/ling players, especially because many people seem to think the only answer to that is 6-gate timing attacks...
|
My suggestion is to try and do a 2gate expand. Get more gateways after the Stargate.
Get +1 Air ASAP. Phoenix Harrass is Key.
I saw a Toss today expanding @ 24 food, and then three-gating into HT/Archon play.
Replace HTs with Stargate units FTW.
Now srsly. This build is great vs Muta/ling play but prepare to die to mass roaches earlygame.
|
I dont know if anyone has already said this but recently, Kiwikaki used carriers against painuser (i believe) and won on terminus. Cant find the replay but he uses carriers well and wins
|
On March 19 2011 06:16 Hierarch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2011 05:46 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Oh my God, it's the stove! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=173369:p All joking aside though, I have a couple questions to ask you coming from a Zerg perspective: It seems that phoenix play will prompt the Zerg to make spore crawlers, so how effective is your DT harass, as the Zerg will most likely have detection up? how would this deal with infestor/hydra play? It seems a well-placed FG can put a serious dent in your phoenix numbers if there are hydra around, same thing with the interceptors. I thought about that, as it seems counter intuitive to run DT's into spores, but sending 1-2 to a couple later expansions while engaging their main army leaves just a queen and drones to fight a DT or two and the DT will kill the queen and then just kill drones, just because it is detected doesn't mean it can't do damage. This will force spine crawlers also which just adds more static defense at the cost of 2-4 DT's, also DT's can patrol bases that haven't been taken by zerg and kill drones attempting to build there, delaying expos. Infester/Hydra seems interesting, i never thought about FG, that would definitely be a good idea vs phoenix since they are so fast and can run. I haven't seen FG vs interecepters, how does it work? Do the intercepters just sit there and not shoot? Or do they sit there and shoot? If it's the former then FG could be amazing vs this.
Yeah, I think infestors would be a very good response to this, coupled with hydras. I think it would work similar to the way infestors are used in ZvZ against mutas. You use FG on the phoenix, and then kill them with your hydras that outrange them while they're rooted. I feel this would shut down a lot of your harass capabilities once infestors are up. FG can also be used in a pinch against DTs if you don't have any detection around too.
I also think in the late game it would continue to be effective. FG won't kill the interceptors by itself, but it will deal quite a bit of damage, and again, hydra's will outrange the interceptors, allowing them to kill them without taking damage. This would also enable the zerg to stop the zealots and kite them.
So, it's pretty micro intensive, but a Zerg could use FG to fight this effectively. I guess you could counteract this a bit by splitting you phoenix into smaller groups, and spreading your zealots, but how would you deal with heavy infestor/hydra play?
|
wanna see you holding any roachpressure with this build, even with voidrays its kindof hard.
hydradrops counter it, you need charge for the zealots.
its a nice strat if your zerg-opponent gives you time to max to lots of carriers and doesnt scout it, otherwise it fails imo.
|
On March 19 2011 10:56 DiaBoLuS wrote:
wanna see you holding any roachpressure with this build, even with voidrays its kindof hard.
hydradrops counter it, you need charge for the zealots.
its a nice strat if your zerg-opponent gives you time to max to lots of carriers and doesnt scout it, otherwise it fails imo.
He does get charge, and it just opens as a 3-gate expand into stargates. If he scouts roach pressure, he can react to it as well.
I don't know why people think this is a carrier rush. -.-
|
Yes! Anything to see carriers used properly. Wonder if we'll ever see them again in PvT like in bw. One can hope...
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
