A few thoughts on why this build scares me to death as a zerg player.
-Use phoenixes to graviton beam infestors, even if you don't kill them, you prevent them from using fungal or neural parasite. Your units will most likely auto target and kill them anyway if they can't move, and sacrificing a phoenix for an infestor that hasn't spent its energy is a great trade. -Getting up a dangerous number of carriers forces us to make mass corruptors and then go broodlords. But with multiple stargates as your main production facilities, you can slam out pure voidray for a while and just annihilate corruptors and broodlords. -Make a mothership and LEAVE IT AT HOME! If you get into a bad engagement, just recall, and never lose your expensive investment in carriers.
I'm really glad this topic got revived. I hope more protoss start using it and we move away from the colossus deathball metagame currently popular.
On April 24 2011 05:22 inamorato wrote: If you really attempt to outproduce zerg with Phoenixes for air superiority and he transitions you're going to be left with a lot of worthless phoenix. This is what anypro tried vs July. July made spire, immediately made corruptors and smashed him.
Yes, Corruptors are better than phoenix for air control, but then a handful of stalkers/voidrays will shut that down very very quickly. The thing is that phoenix > muta and voidray > corruptor.
If you make phoenix to counter a spire that then only produces corruptors, its not hard to just avoid the corruptor cloud and fly around the map hitting different expansions, scouting, picking off random ovies and scouts. They don't instantly become useless. You also have the choice to bring them with the main army for graviton beaming certain units.
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imJealous, the mothership at home (or even better, at the third) is an idea i've been thinking of for a while, its just really hard to make myself spend the 400/400 on it in the middle of a game. And it takes almost 3 ingame minutes to build :/ but the defensive recall is theoretically very powerful: You go for zerg's fourth and he decides to attack your main/natural/third? recall, defend, and now you're ahead (provided you don't die) Definitely need to start doing this :D
infestors now negate all air, i just get rolled by fungle, they spam a few infestors and your entire air army gets caught ones you loose, i don't an air based strat viable against any z, sorry :\
On April 24 2011 06:31 imJealous wrote: A few thoughts on why this build scares me to death as a zerg player.
-Use phoenixes to graviton beam infestors, even if you don't kill them, you prevent them from using fungal or neural parasite. Your units will most likely auto target and kill them anyway if they can't move, and sacrificing a phoenix for an infestor that hasn't spent its energy is a great trade. -Getting up a dangerous number of carriers forces us to make mass corruptors and then go broodlords. But with multiple stargates as your main production facilities, you can slam out pure voidray for a while and just annihilate corruptors and broodlords. -Make a mothership and LEAVE IT AT HOME! If you get into a bad engagement, just recall, and never lose your expensive investment in carriers.
you probably don't ever want to use neural parasite on carriers if there are phoenix floating around. even if you get it off, a graviton beam will completely negate the 150 energy spell. fungals are more energy efficient.
If I see mutas being made I can outproduce zerg and keep air dominance with 2 chronoboosted stargate phoenix, maybe not worth dismissing entirely, but to be fair like 90% of zergs won't bother with the investment into mutas if they see 4-5 phoenix already. Thanks for the input though, but do you think a zerg could fight for air dominance against phoenix? Even if they did get equal numbers how would zerg hold off a push of zealot/sentry/stalker/phoenix?
If you really attempt to outproduce zerg with Phoenixes for air superiority and he transitions you're going to be left with a lot of worthless phoenix. This is what anypro tried vs July. July made spire, immediately made corruptors and smashed him. Besides when you bring carriers on the field it would be a lot more damaging if you weren't sending a memo to the zerg to get AA for 25 minutes before they reach the field. The whole build relies on air production through out. If you are playing a half decent zerg he is definitely NOT going to neglect Air upgrades if his chosen defense is air. I also don't understand how you can say corruptors don't fend well against carriers. They start out doing 20 out of the gate. Carrier is Massive and Armored, which means Corruptor is DEFINITELY viable and infestors would just spank this. I won't go as far as to declare this completely impractical, but their are many holes in this.
Corrupters get absolutely smashed by voidrays that fight isn't even close. Also why are you talking about mutas and then saying makes corrupters instead?
Well I'm glad people are still interested in this build, I still use it from time to time on some maps like shattered temple or tal darim. It's definitely a build worth having in ones repertoire imo.
On April 24 2011 06:46 RAGEMOAR The Pope wrote: How do you counter if they go roaches?
That's a very poor question, you mean if they go early roach aggression? Well unlike Zeerax vs Mondragon I build gateways and don't build colossus so I have stalkers/sentry support and not spent money investing into colossus and double stargate voidray will eventually put an end to roach aggression, a key thing to remember is to get your robo relatively fast if you see mass roach. Also canons canons canons.
The strategy seems to be build every unit. I haven't got a chance to try it yet, but it seems that you would want to cut out as many unnecessary parts of the strategy as possible, that way you have more resources for the parts you do need.
Also if they're going roaches I think it might be better just to go stalker immortal.
On April 25 2011 01:59 talkingmuffin wrote: The strategy seems to be build every unit. I haven't got a chance to try it yet, but it seems that you would want to cut out as many unnecessary parts of the strategy as possible, that way you have more resources for the parts you do need.
Also if they're going roaches I think it might be better just to go stalker immortal.
It doesn't build Immortals or Colossus, normal Robo builds build every unit except carriers most of the time so I don't understand your comment about "builds every unit" variety is a good thing. Also once you get 6-7 voidrays with some upgrades roaches melt faster than they would from stalker/immortal, and you don't lose as many units as you would with stalker/immortal.
If you go mothership with this zerg can't reveal it too well. Overseers get blown up instantly and infestors can't get close if you mass phoenix with only ~5 carriers. If you get air ugprades carriers are practically chainsaws.
On April 25 2011 07:59 JustPlay wrote: If you go mothership with this zerg can't reveal it too well. Overseers get blown up instantly and infestors can't get close if you mass phoenix with only ~5 carriers. If you get air ugprades carriers are practically chainsaws.
Yup and if you get 7-8 voidrays they kill corrupters faster than corrupters can kill the mothership. This also allows DT's to rule in combat even when you don't have a mothership, overseers are quite easy to snipe since alot of zergs suffer from the same mistake that alot of protoss do being that they group the overseer with their army like most protoss group their observer with their army, unfortunately for the overseer it isn't cloaked.
It sounded more like "High level player is doing this in grandmaster, just wanting to let you know it works". Do not be so quick to assume negative things.
On April 25 2011 08:59 Ihsahn wrote: white ra is doing something like this almost every PvZ in his stream..
So? This OP is letting you know how to play the build. You sound like this topic is useless just because WhiteRa does it.
huh?
On April 25 2011 10:02 VoodooTissue wrote: It sounded more like "High level player is doing this in grandmaster, just wanting to let you know it works". Do not be so quick to assume negative things.
EPT
