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Poll: Should Dec 12 - 18 be do the stove week?Yes - We should devote this week to doing the stove. (49) 83% No - no week will ever be do the stove week. (8) 14% We should have "do the stove week" be some other time. (2) 3% 59 total votes Your vote: Should Dec 12 - 18 be do the stove week? (Vote): Yes - We should devote this week to doing the stove.
(Vote): No - no week will ever be do the stove week.
(Vote): We should have "do the stove week" be some other time.
Hello Team Liquid.
Here is the basics of the concept. While I have never actually used this build I have a feeling it could be a viable strategy, maybe not for high level play, but a build to mess around with when you're tired of 1 or 2 gate robo or 4-gate. The concept is pretty simple, and requires the following.
1. Get a fast Pheonix to punish all the overlords to allow steps two and three to be effective.
2. Switch to DTs
3. Get a Mother Ship.
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The crucial part of this is surviving until the Pheonix. Force Fields can hold the ramp only so long, and the build is very gas heavy. The Pheonix had bonus damage to Light. This means they're able to chew threw the Mutalisk, and once in a good mass they take out overlords and overseers with ease, they can even lift the hydras and hit them for bonus damage too.
Once the overseer's are on defense the DTs become much more deadly. Once morphed into Archon we get bonus damage to every Zerg unit. This allows you to hold the zerg from macroing up, while you macro up and set up for step three.
The Mother Ship. In this build it's primary use is for the cloak blanket, and possibly defensive mass recall.
Once the Mother Ship is out, you should be on two fully saturated bases, and just took third while you have a stealth army of DTs and some morphed archons, any follow up is viable, two robos/ HT/ additional StarGates
What are your thoughts on this build?
What are the biggest threats to the build? -other than an infestor highjacking the Mother ship.
What could be done to optimize the strategy? -blink stalkers for the courrupters? That's if they're able to keep a spire up with the DTs wrecking anything trying to stop them/ detect them/ stop the pheonixes from killing overseers.
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I think you have to ask Proct's permission to use the term Stove with a build in SC2.
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Where are you getting the gas for all this :O
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How quickly are you able to produce phoenixes while performing a tech switch to DTs? Not only is that extremely time consuming, but also resource consuming. Dark templars nowhere close to being 'cheap', and they're sort of a hit & miss unit.
Also, wouldn't a zerg plant spore crawlers around his base to prevent phoenix harass? It's counter-productive to the dark templars in the first place.
Mothership... no comment.
This build overall seems very gimmicky. Until you can give me some specifics on how to really deal with the possible responses that the zerg might take, then I can't see this build doing well at all.
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i just dont like turtling up as the protoss. There are so many ways to lose. I mean what if he pumps out 6 roaches at the beginning, or goes banlings. There is just too much time from start to MoShip for stuff to go wrong. Sure you can turtle like a mofo with cannons everywhere, phoenixes harassing, but if the zerg opponent is any good, im' sure he'll expand set some spore crawlers and simply beat you with numbers and some OK scouting.
I'm not saying it's not possible, just too risky for it to be a viable/useful strategy. I can see this workign with a Fast expand for all the gas you'llneed for this build to work.
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also a note, that you will be forcing your opponent to probably put down a spore crawler or two which negates your dts.
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the stove is the most gimmicky build ever but so fun if it works, which usually doesnt happen because it dos not make any sense as it forces the opponent to e response which also counters the next step.
the sc2 version could be more viable with a voidray, but that would prolly take away the spirit.
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On December 02 2010 02:40 bearjuice wrote:
also a note, that you will be forcing your opponent to probably put down a spore crawler or two which negates your dts.
That's what makes it "the stove". The original stove was based around building a scout, which should force turrets, and then transitioning to DTs, which the turrets should have hardcountered...
It's basically a joke build, or something. I don't really understand the dynamics of BW since I'm terribad at it, but here's the original build so you can peruse at your leisure.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=94911
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If you're planning to morph the DTs anyway, why not go HT-Archon instead?
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The point is to contain the zerg, while you're free to macro up. Forcing production of spore crawlers allows you to make the zerg play defensively. When a Zerg is on defense he's going to have a hard time expanding, and the DT's are going to force him to bring an overseer if he wants to engage in combat out side of the base.
In the early game it's important to get to get a sentry to hold off early roach pressure at the ramp. Additional sentry should be added to hold the roaches off for as long as possible. Maybe a forge cannon choke then expand at natural could be able to hold this better. Once pheonix are out the nydus shouldn't be a problem.
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Calgary25979 Posts
On December 02 2010 02:52 Twitch89 wrote:
If you're planning to morph the DTs anyway, why not go HT-Archon instead?
The Stove is an old build from Brood War. It was going Scouts (a terribly underpowered flying unit), into DTs, into Arbiters (a cloaking spellcaster like the Mothership). The build was pretty nonsensical and arguably bad; however, it was so unpredictable that it worked even against top players occasionally. It was the equivalent of a slap in the face.
The Royal Stove required a fourth step: morphing a Dark Archon (extremely underused spellcaster) and using Mind Control (a permanent Neural Parasite) against your opponent. This was like getting slapped in the face while your girlfriend watched and fucked your best friend.
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lol at people taking this build seriously xD
Im so gonna try this out on the ladder ^^
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Void Ray first then get the Twilight Council as soon as you drop the gate would problebly be better. This will allow the DT's to come into play sooner and your void ray is probebly better at harassing alone then a solo pheonix.
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I would honestly try to get first hand experience with what you suggest before posting it here, as it's hard to assess how well it works unless you try it.
In theory however, this seems dumb, really dumb. You won't have enough gas, you won't be able to push out of a contain, your phoenixes will incite spore crawlers which counter the DTs.
And seriously, a mothership? Not even HuK manages to pull that off.
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The Mother Ship is what makes the build complete. Once you hear "justice has come", you can just say 'gg' because there is no way for the zerg to win now. You're going to be denying his ability to get mobile detection, and even if he just masses up corrupters the archons are going to fuck them up with the splash and bonus damage.
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the DT's to mother ship seems pretty retarded. since the zerg will get overseers or spore crawlers to spot the DT's. more likely spore crawlers in fact as that will also deal with the pheonix. so when your mother ship eventually turns up it will get decloaked and taken out asap. also as others have also pointed out, you have to magically survive to that point.
If you wanna do something wacky, why not go pylon > nexus at the top of your ramp to wall off and pump probes from two nexus to saturate your mineral line super fast and then tech (with two nexus worth of chrono). prob work best on jungle basin since you can take your natural and then use the back entrance to move your army out and take a 3rd.
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I won't argue this build as it is so similar to the hilarity of the stove but I would like you to change your name... The royal stove was iced for only the best who can use a dark archon to mc an SCV. Simply call it "the sc2 stove"
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Along with all the other earlier mentioned flaws, I'd add that a rush player will absolutely crush a tech-build like this (let alone the double-tech build this calls for). Not gonna work out great. Put up some replays to validate or else it's just theorycrafting and wishful thinking.
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you go pylon, gateway, gas, core, gas, research. get stalker get sentry stalker, start a stargate and twilight council. after you start teh voidray get the dark shrine and the second and third gate ways.
I'm sure HuK would win if he executed this build. I did something very similar to this against a Terran on Scrap Station. I went for a quick void ray against a cloaked banshee. Got the mother ship mass recalled into his base and it came down to a base race which I was able to win because of the cannons in his base, and my void ray was able to chase down all his floating buildings. If I had got the DTs instead of the fleet beacon I still win because of cannons in my base.
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On December 02 2010 02:59 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 02:52 Twitch89 wrote:
If you're planning to morph the DTs anyway, why not go HT-Archon instead? The Stove is an old build from Brood War. It was going Scouts (a terribly underpowered flying unit), into DTs, into Arbiters (a cloaking spellcaster like the Mothership). The build was pretty nonsensical and arguably bad; however, it was so unpredictable that it worked even against top players occasionally. It was the equivalent of a slap in the face. The Royal Stove required a fourth step: morphing a Dark Archon (extremely underused spellcaster) and using Mind Control (a permanent Neural Parasite) against your opponent. This was like getting slapped in the face while your girlfriend watched and fucked your best friend.
Lol golden description, makes me want to use this against some poor zerg...
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EPT
