EPT
been winning a shit load of PvT's at 3600 masters with this.[G] PvT 3 Gate Aggressive Expo - Page 7
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PaPoolee
Netherlands660 Posts
been winning a shit load of PvT's at 3600 masters with this. | ||
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Sewi
Germany1697 Posts
One thing that bothers me though: Isnt it more usefull to warp in 3 sentries then Nexus and then 3 Zealots? 1. The sentries will have more energy sooner which is important since you state that you live or die with FF usage and 2. You can get your Nexus faster because sentries cost less minerals. | ||
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doomed
Australia420 Posts
On March 22 2011 22:45 Sewi wrote: Thanks fot the post. One thing that bothers me though: Isnt it more usefull to warp in 3 sentries then Nexus and then 3 Zealots? 1. The sentries will have more energy sooner which is important since you state that you live or die with FF usage and 2. You can get your Nexus faster because sentries cost less minerals. I don't think you will have enough gas at that point to actually warp in 3 sentries ? | ||
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Sewi
Germany1697 Posts
On March 22 2011 22:50 doomed wrote: I don't think you will have enough gas at that point to actually warp in 3 sentries ? Silly me, ok, I didnt think of that....  | ||
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On March 22 2011 18:02 Daniel C wrote: I'd have to respectfully disagree, 1 rax FE is a well known build. You can do it gasless or with the 1 marine 2 marauder poke, the latter is a staple build for many. It's not an auto-loss to aggression by any means. You can't claim your nat after 1 rax fe vs a 3 gate expand build. You need to wait until medivacs or more units. | ||
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Albrithe
Canada187 Posts
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Jeffbelittle
United States468 Posts
So: would you recommend this to a novice player as well, or stick with 2 gate robo? | ||
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Daniel C
Hong Kong1606 Posts
On March 22 2011 22:54 infinity21 wrote: You can't claim your nat after 1 rax fe vs a 3 gate expand build. You need to wait until medivacs or more units. Disagree, bunkers will go up way before wg is finished. | ||
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On March 22 2011 23:58 Daniel C wrote: U Disagree, bunkers will go up way before wg is finished. Bunkers don't magically repel Protoss units. Your bunkers will get picked off and you'll be left with little units and inadequate production | ||
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Daniel C
Hong Kong1606 Posts
On March 23 2011 00:05 infinity21 wrote: Bunkers don't magically repel Protoss units. Your bunkers will get picked off and you'll be left with little units and inadequate production Of course not, it's a tough hold but it's doable. Anyway, I don't see how I can convince you here so I'll just end by saying that at my level (diamond), it's difficult but entirely possible to defend 4 gate, 3 gate void or 3 gate robo by making 2-3 bunkers and pulling SCVs for repair. By comparison, defending 3 gate expo is much easier. If 1 rax FE is indeed so weak against early pressure then you wouldn't see pros doing it... Anyway, I didn't come here to bash the build or anything but just to point out that it's unlikely you'll get the chance to bust a FE'ing terran with 3 gate expo when it's already been shown that you can usually defend the nat using bunkers against more aggressive protoss 1 base plays. Not saying 1 rax FE is 100% safe, it can lose to extreme aggression as can any eco build, but it's not as risky as some seem to think. The OP's build is still a good way to contain the terran though and gain map control, but it just won't deny the expansion. That's just my opinion. | ||
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
I tried it against tQState, who is like 4.1k iirc and he beat me quite handily. As far as I know, the general consensus of top players is that FEs are too risky vs 3 gate atm. | ||
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BoxedLunch
United States387 Posts
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Daniel C
Hong Kong1606 Posts
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
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Pookie Monster
United States303 Posts
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On March 23 2011 00:58 Daniel C wrote:I guess P's at my level don't attack properly. This islikely your problem. infinity and I both said that you should lose to 3 Gate aggression if you just one Rax FE, don't know why you kept arguing without posting any replays or citing any sources. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13430 Posts
When they place a number of bunkers at your ramp , what do you do if they also have 3 barracks always pumping units out :/ I play at 3.2k diamond btw though my PvT has been terribad lately so it may be me putting myself on tilt when facing a terran. Will post replays if i get any from tonight. | ||
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Vaporak
70 Posts
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Aldehyde
Sweden939 Posts
On March 23 2011 00:46 infinity21 wrote: If you want to mention levels, I'm playing against 3.7k masters on ladder and they will punish me for expanding. The only way I can defend is if P screws something up. When I played against Cecil, I took a risky expo and barely held it with scvs after he supply blocked himself. I tried it against tQState, who is like 4.1k iirc and he beat me quite handily. As far as I know, the general consensus of top players is that FEs are too risky vs 3 gate atm. On all maps or just certain maps? Also, what kind of FEs? 2rax FE can hold off a 3 gate easily. 1rax FE can hold off a 3gate as well but only on maps with chokes like LT, Shakuras. How exactly are you doing the 1rax FE when you're doing it? On March 23 2011 02:09 CecilSunkure wrote: This islikely your problem. infinity and I both said that you should lose to 3 Gate aggression if you just one Rax FE, don't know why you kept arguing without posting any replays or citing any sources. He kept arguing without replays the same way you did (do). Also, the condescending undertone is completely unncecessary. None of the games you listed were won thanks to your build, especially not in the marine/tank replay. You won because the opponents did some really questionable decisions in the replays where you won outright. The build is good, though, don't get me wrong. It sets up for a longer game quite well while still putting some pressure on which can be deadly if the opponent hasn't prepared. I'd like to see how your 3gate build actually fares against a properly executed gasless 1rax FE where the player builds the CC at the natural and not in-base. Because I didn't see anything special in your replays. Here's a replay pack of me holding various pressure builds with a 1 rax FE. I haven't seen anything that makes me think that it doesn't work yet. | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
On March 23 2011 03:34 Aldehyde wrote:He kept arguing without replays the same way you did (do). Also, the condescending undertone is completely unncecessary. My tone might have been harsh, but not condescending. People who are known to know what they are talking about have a certain amount of merit in their posts, and can make simple claims without citing sources every post. Although if someone else wants to post here saying that 3 Gate aggression can easily be held by a 1 Rax FE, with two notable people in the forums disagreeing, then that guy better back up his claim or else he'll just further detiorate the SC2 strategy section. I had three or four games in a row with a teammate of mine, where I won the game with the early pressure while he was doing a 1 Rax FE. I would say a 1 Rax FE is risky against Protoss 3 Gate Expand on any ladder map. | ||
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