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I've encountered this build a lot on the ladder lately and rarely lose to it with a 1/1/1 opening. With other openings it is a bit more difficult to handle especially if they go for FF contain.
When i suspect 3/4 gate pressure i scout with my first hellion to see if theres a proxy pylon. When i spot the pylon i throw down 2 bunkers and try to kill the pylon but if its too late to do so you can just sit on your ramp with a handful of scvs on repair. When protoss is pressuring you can do a 2 (no preignitor) hellion drop, you can kill plenty of probes this way. Then i just tech to cloak banshees and finish it right there by killing all of his probes.
If scouted properly protoss really cant break your ramp, just pull enough scvs and make sure your 2-3 bunkers stay up. The hellions, and later the banshees, can deal some major economic damage. So if you like to open as 1/1/1 and encounter the 3gate expansion a lot give this reaction a try, it works for me(3.6k masters on EU).
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Italy12246 Posts
Very interesting. I have been playing with double forge stuff lately, and because im paranoid about banshees (only to find out that every single platinum and/or gold terran i play goes 3rax, lol) i always get a fast robo, but opening 3gate is definitely a better idea if i can work out the timings for cloak.
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thanks for the refined build! i really like it a lot.
many times the terrans i play are super greedy and dont really put up defenses, but since you cant scout past a bunker normally theres no way to tell early on, but with this build i can punish them for greediness without the all-in tendency of a 4gate. super good build imo!
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On March 19 2011 22:13 moonylo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2011 15:24 ThaSlayer wrote:
Anyone kind enough to post replays using this build against any form of early rax aggression? I like this build a lot but 3 raxes just kill me, especially in the lower leagues. http://drop.sc/1523 - Vs quick banshee. This replay from OP actually is a 3 rax opening 
I think Slayer wanted one against a terran who is going hardcore 1base 3rax.
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Going to try that for sure, been using gate>robo>gate>expo mostly so far but this also seems to be a pretty safe way play
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On March 18 2011 11:31 kzn wrote:
I meant more the timing, assuming you scout the obvious triggers, sry if that wasn't clear.
In my experience, if left unscanned/scouted this build usually kills someone going for banshees with cloak. Most people only use 1 bunker when going for that, and it's really not enough.
I'm curious why OP goes zealot stalker, sentry x2, zealot x3, sentry x3 as Alicia and Ace at IEM both got about 1 zealot, 5 sentries, and 3-4 stalkers.
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This works great. I have been doing a variant of this, (mainly with a later 2nd gas, which left me vulnerable to banshees due to the later robo) and I have been having a lot of success with it. I started to do it after watching HuK's play which inspired me to be agressive. I have adopted this bo as my standard lately, and I have to say it works quite well.
The contain is the hardest thing to deal with as terran in my opinion. If they drop, I have stalkers in my main waiting for them. If they run down the ramp, I ff. This causes such an economic lead that even the all in after they break the contain is easy to hold off most of the time.
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This kind of doesn't make sense to me and it seems like your strat assumes terran building a CC behind the wall. Otherwise, on most 1v1 ladder maps terrans opening 2 rax can have a marine and a marauder (and a couple scv's) at your doorstep before warp gate research finishes.
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On March 20 2011 14:30 usethis2 wrote:
Otherwise, on most 1v1 ladder maps terrans opening 2 rax can have a marine and a marauder (and a couple scv's) at your doorstep before warp gate research finishes.
So? You know if you just get a sentry this won't be a problem.
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I like the sound of this build though I've already had a lot of success with 2gate/star against Terran's who FE but in the case where they go for something else (especially with heavy marines) I've been looking for something else. This may be what I need (instead of 1gate FE that I normally do)
My question is how does this hold up to quick ghosts? I have a friend who loves to go ghosts (she plays random) whenever she gets TvP and it is such a strong attack against a mostly sentry army because once the energy is gone on those sentries, the contain is broken and your army becomes mostly useless. The only way I've been able to deal with quick ghosts is getting colossus out as fast as possible but she'll usually transition and expand long before I can get enough colossus out and I end up losing to tank/ghost/marine.
Just wondering if you've ever encountered a quick ghost timing attack with this strategy?
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I don't know the exact timing of a quick ghost, but if they get one this early they should die since that investment can't possibly pay for itself.
Even if I'm going 6 gate sentry push, I've had EMPs hit a ton of my army and I still roll over the Terran force; you only need to prevent the Terran from kiting, and get a guardian shield up (assuming you aren't dramatically outnumbered).
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On March 20 2011 14:41 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2011 14:30 usethis2 wrote:
Otherwise, on most 1v1 ladder maps terrans opening 2 rax can have a marine and a marauder (and a couple scv's) at your doorstep before warp gate research finishes. So? You know if you just get a sentry this won't be a problem.
No it won't be a problem but it won't be the scenario in you OP, either.
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United States1177 Posts
High masters (low masters kr) here. I've always wondered what are some cues to attemp to bust up the ramp. I have been playing it safe and ff contain. But sometimes it is much better to bust and trade zealots for scvs/MM. Example: cloak banshees might seem like a hard counter but perhaps you can do enough damage to stay in the game.
For example, if I see him no gas expo I would attack up the ramp. If my probe spots a 2nd rax making before leaving I would stay away. Any tips in this regard? Anything I can determine from stalker zeal poke?
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United States102 Posts
I love early aggression AND 3 gate robo. Thank you!!
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United States1177 Posts
On March 20 2011 14:48 KotaOnCue wrote:
I like the sound of this build though I've already had a lot of success with 2gate/star against Terran's who FE but in the case where they go for something else (especially with heavy marines) I've been looking for something else. This may be what I need (instead of 1gate FE that I normally do)
My question is how does this hold up to quick ghosts? I have a friend who loves to go ghosts (she plays random) whenever she gets TvP and it is such a strong attack against a mostly sentry army because once the energy is gone on those sentries, the contain is broken and your army becomes mostly useless. The only way I've been able to deal with quick ghosts is getting colossus out as fast as possible but she'll usually transition and expand long before I can get enough colossus out and I end up losing to tank/ghost/marine.
Just wondering if you've ever encountered a quick ghost timing attack with this strategy?
Actually a high sentry count just means you are guaranteed a forcefield cage, because they cannot possibly drain all your sentries if you spread them a little bit. I've never lost vs 1 base ghost timing regardless of my transition (quick colossus, or additional gates).
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On March 20 2011 15:15 W2 wrote:
High masters (low masters kr) here. I've always wondered what are some cues to attemp to bust up the ramp. I have been playing it safe and ff contain. But sometimes it is much better to bust and trade zealots for scvs/MM. Example: cloak banshees might seem like a hard counter but perhaps you can do enough damage to stay in the game.
For example, if I see him no gas expo I would attack up the ramp. If my probe spots a 2nd rax making before leaving I would stay away. Any tips in this regard? Anything I can determine from stalker zeal poke?
If he tries to fe or goes for a marine centric build i'd always attack.
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After using this build for quite some time now, I feel that this build actually works best on maps with narrower naturals and shorter distances (i.e close pos metropolis), given the mobility of the Terran MM
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This 3 gate expo should really be the standard build in P v T. It keeps you 100% while dealing a ton of pressure leading into a contain while you expand.
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few questions here :
- is gaz steal good to prevent fast banshie ?
- are stalker/sentry (like MC) better than heavy zel/sentry to bust a ramp and deal with marins ?
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On March 20 2011 15:00 usethis2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2011 14:41 CecilSunkure wrote:On March 20 2011 14:30 usethis2 wrote:
Otherwise, on most 1v1 ladder maps terrans opening 2 rax can have a marine and a marauder (and a couple scv's) at your doorstep before warp gate research finishes. So? You know if you just get a sentry this won't be a problem. No it won't be a problem but it won't be the scenario in you OP, either.
You don't know how to transition, do you?
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EPT
