On March 18 2011 11:31 kzn wrote: I meant more the timing, assuming you scout the obvious triggers, sry if that wasn't clear.
By the time your 3 gate is at his ramp you will have enough read on the terran player to adjust accordingly. If you see all marines or a low marauder count just get the forge. Shouldn't hurt too much if you were wrong. It's all about learning to read his units and knowing the timing of the banshee etc.
On March 18 2011 10:40 SiN] wrote: Surviving the push isn't the problem that most people and I have with this attack. It's the endless forcefields that come after. Simcity doesn't mitigate this.
If you move out and catch or are caught by the Protoss army, you need to focus the Sentries. This means less forcefields later or forcing the Protoss to spend gas midgame to replenish the Sentry count. This also makes the 6 gate push midgame much less deadly.
@ iChau: That's 450 minerals coming out of your 3gate attack, which makes it pretty weak. In none of the games that SlayerSAlicia did that build did he drop that much in the way of static defenses. I really think that would weaken the build to the point of futility.
It's kind of like MC's 6-gate warpgate rush. You can annihilate the Terran, but the whole time you're crossing your fingers saying "please no cloakshees, please no cloakshees, please no..."
It's a risky build that Terrans can hardcounter if they know it's coming, but it's relatively recent in the meta-game and so I'm unclear on whether it will take or disappear. For example there was a lot of hype about the 3 stalker build, but thus far 0 Protoss have used it in the PvPs this GSL season. We'll see how long this lasts.
You dont need siege mode to stop that attack. Siege tanks just deal insame damage against warpgate units, especially stalkers. And you cant focus them being behind the wall. So quick siege tanks definatelly are a good option. Besides that, P wont know if you are going to make a 1 base siege-marine push or if you are expanding. So this is definatelly an answer. Dont expect it to be a hardcounter though, just a solid build.
On March 18 2011 10:40 SiN] wrote: Surviving the push isn't the problem that most people and I have with this attack. It's the endless forcefields that come after. Simcity doesn't mitigate this.
If you move out and catch or are caught by the Protoss army, you need to focus the Sentries. This means less forcefields later or forcing the Protoss to spend gas midgame to replenish the Sentry count. This also makes the 6 gate push midgame much less deadly.
Disclaimer: My macro sucks and I get blocked a lot.
Also, the Protoss build is really strong. I suppose I got lucky this game with bunkers and my base racing senses are pretty good.
Haha yeah I remember this game. You had some pretty good drop timing. I look to spot drops more often after losing like that xD
On March 18 2011 12:18 moonylo wrote: You dont need siege mode to stop that attack. Siege tanks just deal insame damage against warpgate units, especially stalkers. And you cant focus them being behind the wall. So quick siege tanks definatelly are a good option. Besides that, P wont know if you are going to make a 1 base siege-marine push or if you are expanding. So this is definatelly an answer. Dont expect it to be a hardcounter though, just a solid build.
Check the first replay I posted. Actually, check all the replays and read the entire thread before posting.
When i experimented with 3gate builds awhile back, i started gas stealing as much as possible because of banshee and tank builds. The only problem is that it makes your intentions obvious so i don't know how useful it really is :/
It's a really strong build atm. Even with bunkers and teching to banshees, the protoss is likely going to smell it out and drop a robo. Then he just goes and kills you.
The best way to stop it I've seen is to get bunker with 2rax + relatively quick siege. As soon as siege is done you can move your expansion out and protoss will be relatively behind in tech.
Awww come on, I red the entire thread and yes I saw the marine-tank replay and watched the MVP-Alicia series at least twice. All I wanted to say is that you are not going to break the terran going for quick siege tanks so that is a good option to open as terran. This also helps to break the contain as sentrys get into siege fire when they want to forcefield.
And you wont know if an all-in is coming or if he is expanding (making a CC in his base) either. Didnt say that siege tanks in any form kills this build or anything like that. Or did I?
I approve of the gas steal while doing this build. I only really steal gas if the terran goes for a second marine in favour of a tech lab but it never hurts. On larger maps I still prefer to 1 gate FE, but this 3gate FE has always been my build of choice on scary close positions (unless I'm in a 4gatey mood).
Btw, as I played this build some hours ago I came against the fast 3 hellion +8marine + medivac thing twice and it actually crushes in before he moves out. In both cases he wasnt able to defend. Just for that T opening being so popular I absolutely love this build/opening for P.
On March 18 2011 14:01 KillerPlague wrote: hmm this varys a lot from my 3 gate opening. definitely will look in to it, but i prefer more stalkers early on.
You can always warp in stalkers after the optimized warping in of the zealots and sentries.
You did this to me the other day, faked me out cuz I saw the expo and cancelled my bunker which ended up in me losing. I was just about to pop siege mode and start working my way down the ramp. Im curious of how it would of played out.
Although this is a "classic" opening, it's getting more and more popular recently as people figure out how to prepare for banshees "just-in-time". Good to see it discussed. One question: why don't you get a 3rd unit out of your initial gateway? Can't watch any reps right now to check if this is just a mistake in your write-up, but imo you have to get a sentry 3rd. It's needed vs heavy early aggression and - if you want to use guardian shield - you probably want at least one sentry with more energy saved up. Also you can very much afford it, you should have the 100 gas if you don't get the robotics early.
Even though the whole set-up (unit-choice/BO) is slightly different, this is also a very nice example of a 3 gate execution. Played two days ago, White-Ra vs Bratok:
Notice how "safe" WhiteRa is. He gets 3 gates, expo and even a robotics. But the fact that he didn't go 1 gate robo allowed him to get enough units to just crush bratok with the help of some really well placed forcefields.
EPT
