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it's not 1 base vs 1 base. The zerg expands to your natural. You'll fall behind pretty quickly if you don't get out of it fast.
One time I lost to DTs because he sent all his other units in a suicide mission against the spine wall to snipe the spore crawler, but I don't think I'd lose to that tactic twice (had I realized what he was doing I could have transfused the spore more than enough times). Air is not good against queens without ground support, and warpins out of your base edge are dealt with by just a few speedlings.
I haven't used this much, but so far I think the blink stalker response mentioned above would be the most effective. Another tactic would be to get a warp prism to elevator some units out while simultaneously warping some, with ranged support from the high ground, which should be able to overpower the mobile army he has.
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Destiny did this against minigun(at least i think so).
Look on hes youtube channel. DTs work against it.
Did it yesterday too, love it.
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what about fast void rays?
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Here's the first game in the Destiny vs Minigun practice series. Minigun tries different strategies to deal with the proxy Hatch.
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As a zerg who has used this strat I have the most trouble with units that can out range my spines and have a decent amount of hits. So things like tanks and collosi seriously shut the proxy spine/hatch down. It is hard to stop as toss since so many people open 1-4 gate and do not get a robot till late game allowing for the zerg to just build a massive wall that moves at you. By minute 6-7 it is possible for the zerg to have like 4-6 crawlers and 30+ lings out in front of ur main. Also the hatch won't pop usually till around minute 4:30-5 so if you don't see anything happening at his main prepare for it by building forge at top of ramp and the canons should have vision over spines as long as ovis are killed. Get to colossi with thermal and destroy.
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This was tried on me 3 times, once it worked because I wasn't aware that people did this kind of cheese. The other two times I scouted it and out of those 2 times the hatchery finished once, and I just went to town on it with 4 probes and a stalker and sentry while keeping my zealot in the gap to block zerglings. by the time he could make lings out of the proxy hatch it had already lost a good amount of health and I just kept adding on stalkers while getting robo tech. Eventually I killed the hatchery and the queen, built up an army off 2 gates and got a single colossus and pushed out. The other time someone did this to me, the hatchery was forced to cancel because it would have been too low on health to be of use. He tried to expand but it was too late and I walked over him. Now, I just scout in my base for a few seconds.
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I have used this strategy a lot and the robo is the way to go. The spore crawlers and mass queesn almost always come after a decent contain because the zerg will expect you to go air or DT to try and do what warpgate cannot. Also when I do successfully pull this strategy off I wall of my main with spines, mine from his natural and then try to go spire for mutas to kill off/give vision of top of ramp. Also with lair comes an overseer. The robo wins because you just drop in my base or expands elsewhere then the DPS of immortals and range of colossi do work. The counter that almost killed me the other day was he rebuilt at my natural with nexus, forge, 2 stars, and 2 gates, cannons, zealots and voids, which almost destroyed me. He managed to get the 2 stars up b4 I killed his cyber.
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If you succesfully scout a 3 gate expand or 4gate or something that doesn't require tech it could be much more effective, but if you scout that the protoss has already begun another tech path, it may not be as effective.
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I know a guy doing this build a bit and I think dt is a viable option to counter it however cols are probably better not that I have tested it my self. The problem with dt is it takes forever to get and all they need to stop it is one spore crawler if they are smart.
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Voids are actually an option, believe it or not. Zerg will not have 2 queens at their proxy hatch by the time you have 1 void.
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On March 15 2011 13:21 azn_dude1 wrote:
Voids are actually an option, believe it or not. Zerg will not have 2 queens at their proxy hatch by the time you have 1 void.
If you have a void out that quickly, it means you don't have the sentry count to forcefield your ramp which means GG when the 40+ speedlings push into your base
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On March 14 2011 17:16 superbabosheki wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 17:03 inFeZa wrote:On March 14 2011 17:00 superbabosheki wrote:
I don't seem to understand the point of this. You can just warp units off your ledge and go kill zerg's main while he put a pretty good amount of his resources in front of your base. If you didnt see, the zerg gets alot of zerglings... speedlings infact, so how are you gonna just la-de-da up 4 zealots or something in the meantime off the ledge when he can catch it with lings AND you have to hold your front or you die... Please watch the replays. So proxy hatchery with spines and queens, as well as speedlings. One base vs one base? P will have a tech advantage, and can do much more off one base than Z can. I've played vs this strategy twice and not only is it really easy to scout, it is really easy to counter. If you would like to play vs me I will show you over 10 ways to beat it. Whether it be a 3 gate blink stalker rush which will crush it timing wise, or a solid break(which if executed cleanly will work perfectly fine), or a dt rush, or a 2 gate stargate where you attack as soon as you have one void and one pheonix while rallying only pheonixes, or w/e. All I'm saying is that it is a shitty strategy and easy to bust.
Actually your pompousness is just due to ignorance. There is only a few proper responses to this and the best one is DT's.
Any kind of timing push out of your base will fail. CpJayy.842 if you think you can beat it with 10 different responses.
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I found that proxy hatches are terrible in SC2. I used it back in the beta, because it was a build I used with success in Starcraft 1 (in-base proxy hatches).
I would in-base proxy hatch; In my opinion in-base proxy is better, although I have done out of base and don't see any viability to it.
It simply doesn't work vs good players, or even the most common stuff like 4 warp gate. They can obviously scout it quite easily, and change their build appropriately, and micro-manage.
4 warp gate dominates it because they will be able to pressure from the start and produce much more units on the battlefield faster than zerg can considering their main hatchery is so far away.
Aside from 4 WG, immortals dominate roaches and spines, and it's not hard for protoss to stall/defend until that point of time - stalkers being faster and longer range than roaches, and zealots (with a few probes if necessary) are able to handle zerglings quite easily.
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Whoa I guess I should have watched the replay. In base proxy hatch is terrible, but I'm talking about how on a 2 player map you can proxy at your opponents natural and build spine crawlers and queens to try to break his front. This was used successfully in GSL.
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On March 14 2011 15:16 sparC wrote:
evo -> spore
doesn't req. gas
what i do is, cancel the 3rd gate, make a forge instead, and go for stargate (phoenix into VR).
get 1 or 2 cannons to delay his progress.
get +1attack and make zealots, since gas goes into stargate units.
works great for me
I have only come across this a couple of times, and I did the same thing with success. One time I even killed his hatch with 1 cannon haha.
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Lol I love this strat. And yes, the reason it has become so popular is because a student mentioned it to Destiny and he tried in a ladder game and won first try, and quite convincingly. I also did it right after I saw that (2700 diamond NA) and won my first 2 games with it. It is quite difficult to stop. I find the only things that stop it is 4 warpgating with alot of sentries (to render lings useless) or holding off long enough to get out 2 void rays.
But yes, it is a very fun strategy to do as Zerg and it is unexpected. Also, quite good.  Thanks Destiny!
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On March 15 2011 15:00 DeadZone wrote:Lol I love this strat. And yes, the reason it has become so popular is because a student mentioned it to Destiny and he tried in a ladder game and won first try, and quite convincingly. I also did it right after I saw that (2700 diamond NA) and won my first 2 games with it. It is quite difficult to stop. I find the only things that stop it is 4 warpgating with alot of sentries (to render lings useless) or holding off long enough to get out 2 void rays. But yes, it is a very fun strategy to do as Zerg and it is unexpected. Also, quite good. Thanks Destiny!
Now i see where it got its popularity. I hate that guy even more now.
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Yeah I just got dealt with this strat on scrapstation (huge base area to hide a hatch in the corner), I made two huge mistakes that cost me the game as I started building at my natural. I...
1. Built a robotics facility too close to the ledge, in range of spine crawlers
2. Did not kill his hatchery after spine crawlers failed to safely move down the ramp, as I thought he had more spine crawlers defending it (he did not)
Now that I look back and do a bit of research, cannons have the same range as spine crawlers (7) so with my forge especially (since I was FEing) I would have been fine if I matched his spines with cannons, as they take 12s to root and are no stronger than cannons (16 dps each, 300 hp/shield each with cannon shield regen matching spine armor).
Be sure to expand when you see it coming though if you haven't already, because zerg will likely have expanded once or twice to take advantage of their contain on you.
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Void ray/stalker can crush this easily. They generally have delayed their lair for pressure.
Also, in most cases I would say proxy roaches, not lings are stronger and more common.
Voids + a couple stalker hits or a phoenix or two will mop up the queens no problem. If they have spores down, they'd stop your dts anyway.
Also, when you get to their base, void + gateway units can end the game right there if you didn't play too sloppy.
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EPT
