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Hi TL,
Recently playing on the NA server i have been doing a few 3 gate expand builds and i have come across this new strategy that kind of mimics what protoss can do in terms of static defense but instead using spinecrawlers, zerglings, overlords and a proxy hatch right outside the base of the protoss.
This has happened a couple of times now and i could imagine some protoss players breaking down and losing to this kind of strategy as it seems pretty powerful because you dont really have the firepower to stop an early game proxy hatch without pulling alot of drones.
Basically, each time i see this i tech straight to dts while maintaining my front, because the zerg wont have any detection at all.
Void rays are not an option because the zerg player will build queens to deal with any air.
Breaking the front with an immortal or stalkers may not be that great as alot of zerglings are made and the range of the stalker/immortal is not greater than a spinecrawler being build out of vision from your high ground.
Here are a few replays:
REP 1: http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=228
REP 2: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/149887-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-caverns
About me: *i am a Diamond player on NA, and Masters in SEA.
## What are your thoughts about this strategy? it seems very strong against the 3gate expand ##
P.S I searched for a thread like this and didnt find any, if there is a similar thread i apologize
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Proxy hatcheries are like any sort of cheese. Stay calm, have backup plans, maintain your macro and go for either a proxy expansion of your own using a warp prism to escape or something sneaky like DTs.
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Thinking about it, your strategy of going for DTs really is the best option. You already have the double gas and 3 gateways, the proxy hatch is likely to go down when you're only at 2-3 sentries so you won't have yet invested too much gas into sentries and you can just immediately begin teching to DTs to warp in 3 on the low ground and snipe the spines.
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Dt will definitely stop this build. This is very mineral intensive which also means the zerg would likely pull off gas after ling speed and will have a VERY delayed lair. A fast dt before 10 mins will totally kill the proxy hatch
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I personally would just get a few cannons and go for robo tech. The robo tech gets you access to both colossus (long range) and warp prisms (expand elsewhere).
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evo -> spore
doesn't req. gas
what i do is, cancel the 3rd gate, make a forge instead, and go for stargate (phoenix into VR).
get 1 or 2 cannons to delay his progress.
get +1attack and make zealots, since gas goes into stargate units.
works great for me
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On March 14 2011 15:16 sparC wrote:
evo -> spore
doesn't req. gas
what i do is, cancel the 3rd gate, make a forge instead, and go for stargate (phoenix into VR).
get 1 or 2 cannons to delay his progress.
get +1attack and make zealots, since gas goes into stargate units.
works great for me
a Zerg who has done this strategy a lot might expect DTs and make a spore crawler pre-emptively, but I wouldn't think that they would do that most of the time until they saw the DTs, by which time the DTs can be already at the hatchery and deny any spore crawlers.
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a zerg who does this and loses to dts is like someone who cannon/bunkers a zerg in and loses to a nydus rush. read: it shouldnt work and if it did you got lucky / he's terrible.
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It's really just like a cannon rush, isn't it? Only more expensive. Treat it like a cannon rush.
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i just make a pylon on the edge of my base away from his proxy hatch to warp units .. 4 gate + 1/2 cannons generally destroys this atleast till 3000 diamond since the zerg wont have much defenses at his main. important to have sentries to deny zerg vision up your ramp. safest way is ofc to go 2/3/4 gate robo and use prism (and atleast sniping his tech building before pushing out or outright killing him). collossi tech is good with range but chances are the zerg will go spire by then and then its bad. +1 is crucial.
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I didn't watch the replay, but proxy hatchery can be very hard to stop. People seem to dismiss it as something that is very easy to block. My CSL teammate and I have practiced the proper response to proxy hatch on Xel Naga Caverns several times and it can be very hard to stop if you don't have experience against it. The zerg can expand straight to your natural and mine from it while you are contained. Also you must wall in with cannons because there will be roughly 6 zerglings and a queen at your doorstep when you have a zealot and a sentry and a spine crawler making at the bottom of your ramp. I guarantee most of the protoss shooting this down would lose to it the first few times they face it.
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Haha. As a zerg player, this is something I want to try...
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DT's might be good, but they're something that can be foiled too easily in my opinion. I've had a good deal of success going blink stalkers though. With Zerg's weak economy and low tech, coupled with buildings in your base you can take advantage of for protection, a ball of blink stalkers is very difficult for Zerg to stop. You can also blink off your main base platform and threaten them in other ways if you so choose. That's especially good for blinking around the spine crawlers and killing the proxy hatch.
The major downside to this is that you have to have at least a small stalker ball built up for this to work, so if it looks like you won't be able to have that small ball, then throwing down that dark shrine can be a good idea. Place a pylon at the edge of your main platform so you can warp some down and hit their drones at home.
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I don't seem to understand the point of this. You can just warp units off your ledge and go kill zerg's main while he put a pretty good amount of his resources in front of your base.
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On March 14 2011 17:00 superbabosheki wrote:
I don't seem to understand the point of this. You can just warp units off your ledge and go kill zerg's main while he put a pretty good amount of his resources in front of your base.
If you didnt see, the zerg gets alot of zerglings... speedlings infact, so how are you gonna just la-de-da up 4 zealots or something in the meantime off the ledge when he can catch it with lings AND you have to hold your front or you die...
Please watch the replays.
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Well theres a couple of things you can do to help against this.
Checking your nat to see the hatch before its actually finished and crawlers are building would be nice.
Actually making an extra structure as soon as you scout it would be good too. You were going for a 3 gate expand it seems. As soon as you see the hatch, the 3 gate expand isnt an option anymore. So at that point, you should do something to spend your money. Staying on 3gate and letting your money go up to 1k isnt good.
You are not going to spend your money on a nexus. So whatever you choose, robo, extra gateway, stargate, or council, you should throw it down as soon as you see the contain going up and have the money, not 1 minute later when you see your money getting high.
DTs worked for you there, because the zerg was going really all-in, staying on 12 drones, not teching, and just trying to get inside your base and end the game asap.
But its super easy for a zerg to make a round or 2 of drones once hes got you contained and his spines are poking away at your buildings. then they can tech to lair, get an evo, or whatever they want really, after hes poking at your wall and has you contained, the zerg can do what he wants, he doesnt need to make pure lings nonstop off 12 drones and try to end it right away, sacrificing wave after wave of lings into forcefields. And obviously, sacrificing wave after wave of lings into forcefields isnt the best thing to do.
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As Zerg you always rum around the map and look for pylons.
So get a probe and scout your base and prevent zerg vom building a hatch in front of your base. I mean a hatch is not just a 2x2 tiny building...
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When this happened to me, i did a three gate but i already had a proxy pylon near his base
i moved all my units out and rolled his base while i blocked my ramp with buildings and a few units.
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On March 14 2011 17:03 inFeZa wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 17:00 superbabosheki wrote:
I don't seem to understand the point of this. You can just warp units off your ledge and go kill zerg's main while he put a pretty good amount of his resources in front of your base. If you didnt see, the zerg gets alot of zerglings... speedlings infact, so how are you gonna just la-de-da up 4 zealots or something in the meantime off the ledge when he can catch it with lings AND you have to hold your front or you die... Please watch the replays.
So proxy hatchery with spines and queens, as well as speedlings. One base vs one base? P will have a tech advantage, and can do much more off one base than Z can. I've played vs this strategy twice and not only is it really easy to scout, it is really easy to counter. If you would like to play vs me I will show you over 10 ways to beat it.
Whether it be a 3 gate blink stalker rush which will crush it timing wise, or a solid break(which if executed cleanly will work perfectly fine), or a dt rush, or a 2 gate stargate where you attack as soon as you have one void and one pheonix while rallying only pheonixes, or w/e. All I'm saying is that it is a shitty strategy and easy to bust.
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I would recommend you to throw couple cannons and go quick stargate. Get voidray and two phoenix, then you can hit his main. Pretty sure you will kill it.
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EPT
