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What started out as a radical idea I had, is now my main build vs Protoss and Terran. the idea is to not rush, but tech up to brood lords earlier then most would seem reasonable. This is similar to the way Protoss will occasionally go one, or two base collosus. the build isn't fully developed, but I will try to list it out in a way that makes sense.
open 14gas/14pool --- This helps to stop cheese and super early pushes.
drones off gas after speed, queen right away
take natural while fully saturating main, put drones on gas when close to full saturation
use lings to scout and defend, spines if there is any sort of push
get lair out as you get gas. also get all gas going as soon as you get new bases
there is somewhat of a timing I have found when going for the greater spire:
-spire asap
-start +1 air attack and infestation pit at the same time
-start hive as soon as infestation pit finishes
-the hive and the +1 attack will finish at almost the exact same time, then start greater spire.
while the greater spire is making, be sure you have some corrupters out and ready
*a good strategy to slow down any pushes is to make around 5 mutas for harass
following this general build/guideline, you should be able to make around 7 brood lords at the 15:00 minute mark.
This is my first post, and I am only a 3k diamond player, so I am open to suggestions.
-- If you want to bash me, please read the post and what a rep beforehand.
Replays:
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/148476-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-caverns
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/148477-1v1-protoss-zerg-backwater-gulch
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/148824-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-caverns
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Most Toss players will go VoidRay+Colossi+Gateway, meaning broodlord are useless.
This also losses badly to 6 gate push, sorry but this wouldn't work in masters, for sure.
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If I see you rushing for lair I can easily just 6 gate you and you won't have any thing to defend with. Spines and lings will only protect you for so long (which isn't even that long)
Also, If you even get the brood lords out some how, that's just about all you'll have meaning If I just make pure blink stalkers and focus them down one by one you're entire game plan is ruined and you lose.
So no, this would not work well at all.
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How do you plan on defending any kind of push?
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okay thanks, but I have beaten blink stalkers multiple times now. when getting these brood lords out at 15 minutes, you will still have an army of lings, handful of mutas, and you cannot forget spines.
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watch the first rep. It wasn't a very strong push, but it's just an example
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I would like to see the replays where you hold a strong timing push, as this seems very vulnerable if your opponent scouts the fast lair.
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possibly, but you are stockpiling a lot of minerals in the meantime. I think this just hasn't been explored yet.
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How do you deal with vikings or other air units, do you switch to hydras or continue with brood lords?
Also have you consider making 1 infestor for fungel to counter blink stalkers a wee bit?
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well, you have mutas and corruptors that are +1, hopefully by then +2 to deal with air
and infestors would be great if you see blink stalkers. as I mentioned I just started, and I'm overall not that great of a player yet.
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You should check the game between WhiteRa and Lalush. Day9 and Soe casted one. Lalush went for earlyish Broods after spine defense to hold WhiteRa's early pressure on Shakuras. WhiteRa, of course, went for the new and improved Colossi + Void Ray + heavy Stalker ball.
+ Show Spoiler +Lalush remaxed well and held it. He skipped roaches while remaxing and went for some more infestors to keep the blink stalkers in check. The infestors also helped him hold the Colossi so the corruptors could calmly destroy them.
This could work, but its not a staple (yet?) by any means. I often "rush" to Broods early in 3v3s and 4v4. There it sure is fun if you got a terran buddy or two to hold fort for a bit. Lings are really good in team games to buy you time and still contribute meaningfully.
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I am definitly going to look for that rep right now, bsrealm, thanks :D
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On March 10 2011 07:55 PorkyPlague797 wrote:What started out as a radical idea I had, is now my main build vs protoss and terran. the idea is to not rush, but tech up to brood lords earlier then most would seem reasonable. the build isn't fully developed, but I will try to list it out in a way that makes sense. open 14gas/14pool drones off gas after speed, queen right away take natural while fully saturating main, put drones on gas when close to full saturation use lings to scout and defend, spines if there is any sort of push get lair out as you get gas. also get all gas going as soon as you get new bases there is somewhat of a timing I have found when going for the greater spire: -spire asap -start +1 air attack and infestation pit at the same time -start hive as soon as infestation pit finishes -the hive and the +1 attack will finish at almost the exact same time, then start greater spire. while the greater spire is making, be sure you have some corrupters out and ready following this general build/guideline, you should be able to make around 7 brood lords at the 15:00 minute mark. This is my first post, and I am only a 3k diamond player, so I am open to suggestions. Replays: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/148476-1v1-protoss-zerg-xelnaga-cavernshttp://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/148477-1v1-protoss-zerg-backwater-gulch
I've been doing almost exactly that.
I have some replays to share if you want, but they are gold/plat level, so I don't know.
Another thing, I NEVER EVER get air attack upgrades, only carrapace. Most units that shoot air shoot pretty fast, or several projectiles, so armor is usually pretty good. TO mention: Hydras, Marines, Thors, Stalkers, Phoenixes, Mutas, Battlecruisers, Queens, Carriers, Mothership, Sentry. I think only the Viking has a significant damage per shot, otherwise everything else fires in small packages and armor is considerably better, even for your corruptors, that will be your anti-air.
Either way, people are preoccupied with early pushes. The thing is, SCOUT, this build is only viable if the opponent is massing 200/200 or expanding. If you scout early aggression defend it as you have been doing already. I, personally, throw down a roach warren and make more queens. Or, start making corruptors if air and I already have my spyre up .
The important thing is, get early gases. I usually build up around 1500 gas when my Greater Spyre goes up, so I can immediately build a ton of BLords. Kinda like you let gas build up before going muta.
This build works best against protoss, but can be used against Terran. Just don't let stimmed marines underneath your Brood Lords, else you lost the game already. I recommend making a small amount of banelings, and take advantage of the fact that the siege tanks will be too occupied firing against broodilngs to kill your banelings.
EDIT: Oh, and this is good against mid-game pushes because I mass upgrade with 2 evo chambers. By the time most mid-game pushes come, I am already 2/2 with my lings (Kinda like the VilePSY style, but I let my gas build up on purpose, and he still doesn't know what to do with it.)
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I'm scratching my head wondering why you'd try get early brood lords.
I feel like ZvZ you'd be better of with a muta swarm if you were planning on going air, as a muta swarm would come out faster, be far far more mobile and quite a bit cheaper than brood lords while being just as punishing to your opponent's lack of anti-air.
ZvP a broodlord push coming before colossus would be kind of ridiculous, but my gut is telling me that it'd be a pretty small if any window to hit. Once the 9 range colossus come out protoss gains the power to force you to retreat (or lose your ground army), your brood lords become a liability, as you can't retreat without losing them. You could argue that you could have corruptors in there as well to pick off the colossus... but then why are the brood lords there at all?
and ZvT you're sacrificing all your mobility to break his marine/tank line, which can be done with ling/bane/muta anyways.
I'm an idiot and probably dumber than I realize, but I just can't see brood lords fitting into any sane Zerg push. They're slow, extremely time-costly to reproduce and force you to use your army to defend them or lose. They feel all-in whenever they hit the field, because if you fight with them and lose the battle, they're dead with no hope of recovery... and they were extremely costly to produce.
... eh, maybe it could work. ling/bane/corruptor/broodlord, rush 3/3 ground (broodlings get the ups) for a ridiculous push against protoss. Still, it'd be hard to justify getting broodlords over ultras, there. Idk.
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On March 10 2011 08:02 LesPhoques wrote:
Most Toss players will go VoidRay+Colossi+Gateway, meaning broodlord are useless.
This also losses badly to 6 gate push, sorry but this wouldn't work in masters, for sure.
Actually it does work... Hadn't you seen the White-Ra vs LaLush game?
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Have you tried this build in ZvZ? I don't see why it couldn't work considering most players like to start by securing a third with just roaches and then add infestors or hydralisks, and having broodlords in your composition would give you an advantage over this comp if you had a similar ground army.
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Thanks for the input Jotoco. I think that is a great idea I need to think about, getting the defence upgrade. I also agree that if there is early aggression, you need to respond to it. I'm fairly certain that you can get roach/ ling/ spine defense without having to give up on brood lords.
This "build" is more of a game plan, rather then some sort of all in rush.
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On March 10 2011 08:25 Mauser wrote:
Have you tried this build in ZvZ? I don't see why it couldn't work considering most players like to start by securing a third with just roaches and then add infestors or hydralisks, and having broodlords in your composition would give you an advantage over this comp if you had a similar ground army.
lol... I haven't tried this vs another zerg unfortunately. My zvz is weak and nobody at my level seems to want the game to go on longer then 10 minutes.
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does anyone have the link to the whitera-lalush game handy?
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Rushing to Brood Lords in ZvP is really amazing. It does so much damage and isn't TOO difficult to manage.
What I do is Roaches with Tunneling claws and Corruptors. I snipe obs with corruptors and just try to hold the Toss off. Then i tech to Broods. I usually aim to get hive starting 14 minutes and broods before 18 minutes. Its really good cause If they get voids, you can just transition into zergling corruptor :D
edit:
replay of mine: [url blocked]
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EPT
