• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:53
CEST 15:53
KST 22:53
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy4Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3
Community News
Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)9BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack2Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13
StarCraft 2
General
TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2) The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation How herO can make history in the Code S S2 finals Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group A [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group B SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Recent recommended BW games FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 4 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 3
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
NHL Playoffs 2024 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 26551 users

[G] ZvZ Hatch first vs a 14/14 - Page 4

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 17 18 19 Next All
dave333
Profile Joined August 2010
United States915 Posts
March 09 2011 23:19 GMT
#61
Scrap, backwater, slag, delta are basically impossible to do 15 hatch. Scrap's ramp is far too large.

Xel naga is a bit iffy but you can probably do it.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
March 10 2011 00:06 GMT
#62
Hey just to let you guys know OP is updated and thanks to Chaosvuistje looks a lot nicer. Huge thanks to him for doing this for me as it now looks way more organized :D
When I think of something else, something will go here
BlazedHydra
Profile Joined March 2011
United States67 Posts
March 10 2011 02:04 GMT
#63
how does this build fare against 13 gas 12 pool super fast speedling timing pushes???
boredoms not a burden anyone should bare
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
March 10 2011 02:07 GMT
#64
On March 10 2011 11:04 BlazedHydra wrote:
how does this build fare against 13 gas 12 pool super fast speedling timing pushes???


Tbh I don't think I have faced that yet. I imagine you can still hold it fine as long as your making enough lings early. Would ask a friend and try it I might ask titan or someone to do that vs me and see but I imagine you'll hold just fine with this build but would have to test to say for sure ^_^
When I think of something else, something will go here
apalemorning
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada509 Posts
March 10 2011 02:42 GMT
#65
thanks bro. i used to go hatch first all the time in zvz, using a variation of spines/double queen on ramp. i kept losing to baneling aggression so i started going 14g/14p/20 baneling nest and cheesing all my zvz wins out of frustration. im high diamond and this build basically holds any kind of cheese short of 7pools that are super easy to defend by just using drones until lings pop. thanks bro. i would kiss you in real life.
immortal/roach is pretty good against stalkers
majestouch
Profile Joined December 2010
United States395 Posts
March 10 2011 02:55 GMT
#66
zvz is bo wars. it is.
here is a replay of me doing 15hatch against CELLAWERAA doing 14/14. I win.
http://replayfu.com/r/LQB4nk

here is a replay played 5 min later of cellawerra 9pooling me after i 15hatch on close positons.
http://replayfu.com/r/vn1g0p
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-10 03:05:15
March 10 2011 02:58 GMT
#67
On March 10 2011 11:55 majestouch wrote:
zvz is bo wars. it is.
here is a replay of me doing 15hatch against CELLAWERAA doing 14/14. I win.
http://replayfu.com/r/LQB4nk

here is a replay played 5 min later of cellawerra 9pooling me after i 15hatch on close positons.
http://replayfu.com/r/vn1g0p


I disagree with you saying zvz is bo win/lose. If you drone scout you can adjust so as not too die to silly things. In the game you lost vs 9 pool you defended kinda poorly could have defended better not letting the drones die to the zerglings and make a spine of your own.
When I think of something else, something will go here
B34ST
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom150 Posts
March 10 2011 04:05 GMT
#68
Did this on Slag Pits across positions, really nice. Something to add to my bag of tricks, I have found it funny playing people after I annouce no zerg can stop me FE'ing in zerg strat channel.

falstag
Profile Joined November 2010
United States55 Posts
March 10 2011 04:14 GMT
#69
Great idea and good replays.
Think you will be Grandmasters in 1.3 blade
If he looks weird, its his placement match
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-10 04:17:29
March 10 2011 04:17 GMT
#70
On March 10 2011 13:14 falstag wrote:
Great idea and good replays.
Think you will be Grandmasters in 1.3 blade


If I ladder enough on NA i'm close to top 200 just I prefer playing on Korea then NA but do plan on getting top 200 for grandmaster before the patch hopefully ^_^.

Thanks for the positive feedback guys glad to see its helping people out :D
When I think of something else, something will go here
RJ231
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada19 Posts
March 10 2011 04:31 GMT
#71
Thx for the guide, clears up some confusion about holding various attacks when doing this build. Just curious though, I do 15h/14p quite a bit and sometimes I find I lose to players who do 14/14 and go for my expo. On some maps coming down off the ramp exposes you to a surround or a run by, I'm assuming this is just bad build order by me?
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
March 10 2011 04:34 GMT
#72
On March 10 2011 13:31 RJ231 wrote:
Thx for the guide, clears up some confusion about holding various attacks when doing this build. Just curious though, I do 15h/14p quite a bit and sometimes I find I lose to players who do 14/14 and go for my expo. On some maps coming down off the ramp exposes you to a surround or a run by, I'm assuming this is just bad build order by me?


You should be able to have about 5 roaches come out at the same time which will stop it so they can't surround. Just sounds like a slight mess up on your part.
When I think of something else, something will go here
apalemorning
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada509 Posts
March 10 2011 10:03 GMT
#73
man, i can hold this vs almost everything easy. but on the ladder it seems i get my roaches, drone a bit. i find it really, really hard to scout what the zerg is doing. almost every zerg on the ladder goes 14g/14pool. so they get speed well before me, take their expo, and then im blind. i've literally been mass linged/baneling busted all-in'ed with this build. how do you adapt if he contains ur scout with speedlings? this ling/baneling comes before lair, its so frustrating. halp
immortal/roach is pretty good against stalkers
Jwfort
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia36 Posts
March 10 2011 10:11 GMT
#74
Great post man to be honest, I've been using this build with a few tweaks based around using baneling micro-management to weaken my opponents economy whilst massing my army, so that when the 'major battle' happens, I have a much easier time re-building my force.

I'm new here so i am having issues quoting people, but i see people asking about 6-11 pools if you scout them. simply put I think by the time you scout it out, your pool will probably be too far behind already to bother cancelling the hatch, and i find that chucking down a spine in the mineral line of your main and natural, as wlel as your 8 lings SHOULD be able to keep you alive long enough for the roaches to come out.

Once more, thanks for the post this build has actually helped me fix up a few nicks i had with my ZvZ!
decaf
Profile Joined October 2010
Austria1797 Posts
March 10 2011 10:34 GMT
#75
I did a 15 hatch 15 poool 14 gas agaisnt a ling bling yesterday. I threw down the roach warren right att the time my pool finished, but somehow I didnt have any money left over queens or zerglings. Maybe because I researched the metabolic boost upgrade?
And I also think a 9 drone scout is quite an eco loss, but it's needed for this build :/
Valckrie
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom533 Posts
March 10 2011 10:51 GMT
#76
I do mine a little different:

15 hatch
14 pool
17 gas
16 ovie
*pool finishes*
16 queen
18 ling
19 ling
20 ling
20 warren
(basically 1 queen at main, 6 lings, warren)
another overlord

inject with queen move to ramp
once roach warren finishes build as many roaches as possible

it's a little different as it takes gas later but for a few roaches - I don't feel you need that early gas, the more minerals is quite beneficial
Fear is a 4 letter word. Why be afraid?
terr13
Profile Joined April 2007
United States298 Posts
March 10 2011 10:57 GMT
#77
Does anybody just skip gas for more drones, and then just drop down like 2-5 spines at your nat, and wall in with 2 Queens?
Valckrie
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom533 Posts
March 10 2011 11:01 GMT
#78
I've seen some people do that, but roaches give you the ability to counterattack if he doesn't have enough lings or roaches.
Fear is a 4 letter word. Why be afraid?
transience
Profile Joined February 2011
Belgium74 Posts
March 10 2011 11:09 GMT
#79
I 15 Hatch in every match-up. The idea to delay my Queen to get my Roaches up faster in ZvZ will definitely help!
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
MilesTeg
Profile Joined September 2010
France1271 Posts
March 10 2011 12:39 GMT
#80
On March 10 2011 19:57 terr13 wrote:
Does anybody just skip gas for more drones, and then just drop down like 2-5 spines at your nat, and wall in with 2 Queens?


I am doing this all the time as well. I wonder which is best in what situation?
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 17 18 19 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
13:00
King of the Hill Weekly #213
CranKy Ducklings93
Liquipedia
WardiTV Invitational
11:00
WardiTV June Group D & 1/2C
MaxPax vs Spirit
Krystianer vs SpiritLIVE!
YoungYakov vs MaxPax
WardiTV1146
IndyStarCraft 247
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 247
ProTech89
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 35827
Calm 9462
firebathero 4638
Hyuk 801
EffOrt 754
Stork 508
Mini 451
actioN 394
Larva 351
Shuttle 343
[ Show more ]
ZerO 332
Zeus 294
Light 151
Dewaltoss 132
Rush 129
hero 97
ToSsGirL 65
Sea.KH 57
Barracks 43
sorry 36
sas.Sziky 29
[sc1f]eonzerg 25
sSak 21
Nal_rA 15
HiyA 13
IntoTheRainbow 12
scan(afreeca) 12
SilentControl 10
Noble 9
ajuk12(nOOB) 5
ivOry 3
Yoon 2
Terrorterran 1
Dota 2
Gorgc4258
qojqva2429
XcaliburYe318
syndereN283
boxi9885
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2618
byalli249
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0562
Westballz42
Other Games
singsing2687
B2W.Neo541
hiko405
Fuzer 359
DeMusliM323
crisheroes291
elazer208
ArmadaUGS154
XaKoH 116
Liquid`VortiX90
djWHEAT60
KnowMe52
QueenE46
ZerO(Twitch)24
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream7861
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV417
League of Legends
• Nemesis7682
• Jankos2285
Upcoming Events
BSL 2v2 ProLeague S3
5h 8m
Korean StarCraft League
13h 8m
SOOP
19h 8m
sOs vs Percival
CranKy Ducklings
20h 8m
WardiTV Invitational
21h 8m
Cheesadelphia
1d 1h
CSO Cup
1d 3h
BSL: ProLeague
1d 4h
Hawk vs UltrA
Sziky vs spx
TerrOr vs JDConan
GSL Code S
1d 18h
Rogue vs herO
Classic vs GuMiho
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 20h
[ Show More ]
BSL: ProLeague
2 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
Cross vs Doodle
MadiNho vs Dragon
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Cure vs Percival
ByuN vs Spirit
RSL Revival
4 days
herO vs sOs
Zoun vs Clem
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Serral vs SHIN
Solar vs Cham
Replay Cast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Reynor vs Scarlett
ShoWTimE vs Classic
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.