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Hey guys, lately i've been really struggling with my Terran vs Terran matches, and most of the time i lose to this really early and annoying siege tank push, and i have absolutly no idea on how to stop it.
I've been told that if im suspecting an early push, i should put up a bunker, but that doesnt really help against sieged tanks. The only thing i can really think of is just throwing all i've got at his contain (incl. SCV's), and that usually kills him with good micro, but then he's with a huge advantage in the eco game and i just lose later on instead.
So, how do u terrans out there deal with this kind of push? Im really confused  .
And let me know if i forgot to include something important, this is my first post, so please be nice :o).
And im sorry if this has been up before, but i honestly couldnt find any threads about it.
Thanks!
- Krasso the 2800 diamond terran with TvT skills like a bronze player.
Edit:
Replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/142713-1v1-terran-steppes-of-war
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Post a replay so the exact timing can be seen, but I've seen fast siege tank pushes in TvT defeated without anything fancy.
What units come with the tanks? Marines? A raven? banshees?
In the games I watched, it was a marine/tank push around the 8minute mark with 2 tanks, siege mode about to finish, stim done, and about 14-15 marines.
The counter in the end was about 5-6 marauders, the rest marines, and pulling 4 scvs to take the first salvo of tank fire while charging down the ramp with the marauders and sniping the tanks.
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youre in luck, like 50% of all competetive level TvTs have early sieges Im sure youll figure something out even if you just parrot also, if you wanted more specific help youd have to post a replay ;/
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I'd also appreciate the communities thoughts on this. I'm only Plat, but TvT is my worst matchup on the ladder.
If I tank contain, i feel like i get dropped all the time and am not mobile enough to respond. Even a tank seiged up in your base is not enough to buy time if they death drop you. If I opt for a more mobile force, I get tank contained yet can't seem to pull off drops with the effectiveness required to counter the contain.
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u can stop it with siege tanks of your own or 2port/hellion play works too. however 2port/hellion can be easily countered by passitivity.
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Ok, i've added a replay. Its usually something of that sort i get killed by.
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Well, the main way is to have your own siege tanks! Early game, one or two well placed siege tanks effectively negates any siege tank pushes. I usually have a reactored starport cranking out vikings at the start. Your vikings will arrive at the line a lot faster, and you should be able to drive his tanks back. It only takes one or 2 kills before they should move back.
Another option is banshees, just fly out of any scans and hit the siege tanks. Early game, they won't have enough scans to be able to pick off your banshees
Eventually you will need tanks though. Viking/tank is really the only way to play TvT, and it generally comes down to who has the most vikings, followed by who has the best position.
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Open banshee? That's what I do unless I fe. I don't have any problems with Tank contains except on Steppes, once you see it coming get your own tanks and split your banshees up on his mineral line and army. If he moves out with 2 tanks you should have 1 banshee already so you can pick off marines on the way and eventually force him back, if he keeps going on with most of his marines gone engage with your own marines and banshee to kill that force.
When you do 2 gas fe your own tank and viking should come out in time to force him back and if you do some bio fe play you should have enough to make him back off if your build is right. If you do some 1 base bio stuff stop doing that.
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Scouting. You should have plenty of time to respond to a tank/marine push. The idea is 1/2 tanks and marines, and while hes moving out research siege tech.
If you are two-rax, punish it early on. If you are going the same route, you should have more forces than he does. Siege tank contains can be beat easier if you preemptively setup outside your choke. At chokes, defenders have an disadvantage during a contain. Move your stuff to the natural and bring SCVs for repairs. Make sure they dont get siege tech before you.
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On February 22 2011 10:57 bowser wrote:
I'd also appreciate the communities thoughts on this. I'm only Plat, but TvT is my worst matchup on the ladder.
If I tank contain, i feel like i get dropped all the time and am not mobile enough to respond. Even a tank seiged up in your base is not enough to buy time if they death drop you. If I opt for a more mobile force, I get tank contained yet can't seem to pull off drops with the effectiveness required to counter the contain.
If your getting dropped use proper supply depot placement to block hellions from your scvs. And put 1 tank in your base near the mineral line). It is usually best to put the tank at the most likely space for hellions to approach from. Also use your supply depots to spot your entire base (IE build them in all your blind spots). This well help you see hellion harass coming in.
Some thigns you might try with your mobile force is dropping hellions on the tanks it doesnt do much damage but if done right you might be able to roast alot of marines. If you kill his marines you can sit their and attack the tanks forcing him to unseige than you can move your army up. Think of ideas to use the mobility of your force and experiement in customs with terran friends or even on the ladder! Remember his tanks cant be everywhere. Do you use banshees? Sometimes just 1 or 2 can but a real damper on tanks marines and scvs. (with cloak of course  )
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This was on Steppes of War, not alot of time to react even if scout it on there.
And, if i open banshee, should i also be doing cloak then? :o
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the answer is hellion into banshee imo. thats the opening i use in tvt every game, you can easily hold a 3 rax or a tank push. most games ill send my first banshee down to his base and if i see his army moving out hold one in my base. with cloak and micro you can easily beat this, and do a lot of economic damage of your own.
use your hellions and banshees to hold until you get your own tank out then bust out a viking asap. if he's moved his whole army out to attack you, your banshee in his base could win you the game, or at least make him pull back.
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In that replay, you basically just failed to respond adequately. After his first push, you both had the same SCV count, nothing changed there. After that though, your macro and micro start slipping. You didn't produce vikings fast enough, and there was no reason to run your tank away from his - an unsieged tank actually has better dps than a sieged tank and you could have easily assigned a few scvs to repair it if the vikings landed.
Your raven also did nothing, which is a real shame considering how expensive it is.
Also, if you want to go blue flame, go for that EARLY and you need to drop to make up for how expensive it is. Otherwise, go for siege mode - your timing on blue flame was a little ridiculous! "I'm getting siege tank pushed, I know! I'll upgrade my hellions anti-light capabilities!"
So:
get siege mode earlier
don't stop pumping out vikings and tanks
1v1 unsieged > sieged tank
keep ravens alive and use PDD for viking battles
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On February 22 2011 11:08 Krasso wrote:
This was on Steppes of War, not alot of time to react even if scout it on there.
And, if i open banshee, should i also be doing cloak then? :o
Yes. One cloakshee in his mineral line, one to pick off his tanks while you get your own out.
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On February 22 2011 11:17 Mercury- wrote:
Yes. One cloakshee in his mineral line, one to pick off his tanks while you get your own out.
Depends: If I see that he's prepared with turrets or vikings, I won't bother with cloak. It's really expensive, and you need to force quite a few scans or take out some tanks to make it worth it. Otherwise, I just reactor the star port and start viking production.
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On February 22 2011 11:20 Ayjayz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 11:17 Mercury- wrote:
Yes. One cloakshee in his mineral line, one to pick off his tanks while you get your own out. Depends: If I see that he's prepared with turrets or vikings, I won't bother with cloak. It's really expensive, and you need to force quite a few scans or take out some tanks to make it worth it. Otherwise, I just reactor the star port and start viking production.
By the time the other T has all that he should have his own tanks out and expo up to give him a favorable position.
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On February 22 2011 11:15 Ayjayz wrote:
In that replay, you basically just failed to respond adequately. After his first push, you both had the same SCV count, nothing changed there. After that though, your macro and micro start slipping. You didn't produce vikings fast enough, and there was no reason to run your tank away from his - an unsieged tank actually has better dps than a sieged tank and you could have easily assigned a few scvs to repair it if the vikings landed.
Your raven also did nothing, which is a real shame considering how expensive it is.
Also, if you want to go blue flame, go for that EARLY and you need to drop to make up for how expensive it is. Otherwise, go for siege mode - your timing on blue flame was a little ridiculous! "I'm getting siege tank pushed, I know! I'll upgrade my hellions anti-light capabilities!"
So:
get siege mode earlier
don't stop pumping out vikings and tanks
1v1 unsieged > sieged tank
keep ravens alive and use PDD for viking battles
Its just funny, cus i feel like everyone i ask answers something different.
U tell me to get siege mode early, day9 tells me to wait untill i need it.
u tell me to get vikings early, people tell me to get something to harrass with (in TvT)
TvT just feels like a rock-paper-scissors match-up to me >_>
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On February 22 2011 11:11 Jayzo wrote:
the answer is hellion into banshee imo. thats the opening i use in tvt every game, you can easily hold a 3 rax or a tank push. most games ill send my first banshee down to his base and if i see his army moving out hold one in my base. with cloak and micro you can easily beat this, and do a lot of economic damage of your own.
use your hellions and banshees to hold until you get your own tank out then bust out a viking asap. if he's moved his whole army out to attack you, your banshee in his base could win you the game, or at least make him pull back.
Do you have a replay of this I can check out? I like the sounds of it . . . just trying to find a playstyle in TvT i'm comfortable with and this sounds interesting.
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On February 22 2011 11:36 Krasso wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2011 11:15 Ayjayz wrote:
In that replay, you basically just failed to respond adequately. After his first push, you both had the same SCV count, nothing changed there. After that though, your macro and micro start slipping. You didn't produce vikings fast enough, and there was no reason to run your tank away from his - an unsieged tank actually has better dps than a sieged tank and you could have easily assigned a few scvs to repair it if the vikings landed.
Your raven also did nothing, which is a real shame considering how expensive it is.
Also, if you want to go blue flame, go for that EARLY and you need to drop to make up for how expensive it is. Otherwise, go for siege mode - your timing on blue flame was a little ridiculous! "I'm getting siege tank pushed, I know! I'll upgrade my hellions anti-light capabilities!"
So:
get siege mode earlier
don't stop pumping out vikings and tanks
1v1 unsieged > sieged tank
keep ravens alive and use PDD for viking battles Its just funny, cus i feel like everyone i ask answers something different. U tell me to get siege mode early, day9 tells me to wait untill i need it. u tell me to get vikings early, people tell me to get something to harrass with (in TvT) TvT just feels like a rock-paper-scissors match-up to me >_>
-If you're gettiing early tankpushed, you will need siege to reply unless you have shees or can catch him before he reaches your base
-Technically speaking you can harass with vikings-it just takes a long time to get in/leave, very risky, very expensive if it doesn't work xD
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EPT
